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Sony KDS-A2000 Problem?

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Old 10-06-2006, 07:37 PM   #1  
How can anyone watch standard def?
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Default Sony KDS-A2000 Problem?

I recently purchased the Sony KDS-50A2000. I have had it for a couple of weeks, and I just noticed a green line running down the right edge of the display or broadcast. This line is less than 1/16th of an inch and can be seen if the screen is in 4:3 mode or in any mode when the edge of the display or broadcast can be seen. It is thin enough that it cannot be seen unless you are up close to the screen, but is much more apparent during scenes in which there is a light colored background. The thin green line is present regardless of what is being displayed (e.g. videogame, cable television, etc.). My question is: Is this a normal occurrence for these televisions, or should I return this one and get a replacement?
Thanks,
Terry
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:47 PM   #2  
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No, it's not normal. You may have a convergence problem but that is just a guess based on what you describe. look at some white letters like in the credits of an HD movie and see if you can see green on the right side of the letters. If so, it is convergence. Better yet, if you can get hold of a cross hatch pattern and throw it up, it will be more obvious. You can adjust convergence in the system menu but you need to be very careful as you can really mess things up if you are not careful. I had to adjust my green and Red as I had green on top of white letters and red under them. It's perfect now. The adjustment allows you shift either Red, Green or Blue both vertical and horizontal one pixel at a time.
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Old 10-06-2006, 11:21 PM   #3  
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Yay green effect here we come again.Take it back or have the light engine replaced.
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Old 10-07-2006, 09:58 AM   #4  
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Yeah, Unforgiven, you are right. When there are white letters on the set, there is green on the right side and a reddish violet on the left. This coincides with what I am seeing on the edge of the screen.
I went to Circuit City today and found the same problem on all SXRD televisions that they have on display. There was one that had the reverse problem: the reddish violet was on the right side and the green on the left. The Sales Rep said they are all like that. However, another Rep said to return the set to be safe. I can't see the point of returning the set if it is a problem with many or most SXRDs.
I went to Sears to look again and found the problem on the one set they had set up as well. But, it wasn't as noticeable as the problem on my set. It appears to be a fairly common problem. I can't believe that just a few people are noticing the problem. I can even see it on the program/channel announcement when changing channels, if I'm close to the screen. What is up?
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Old 10-07-2006, 10:50 AM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgfin
Yeah, Unforgiven, you are right. When there are white letters on the set, there is green on the right side and a reddish violet on the left. This coincides with what I am seeing on the edge of the screen.
I went to Circuit City today and found the same problem on all SXRD televisions that they have on display. There was one that had the reverse problem: the reddish violet was on the right side and the green on the left. The Sales Rep said they are all like that. However, another Rep said to return the set to be safe. I can't see the point of returning the set if it is a problem with many or most SXRDs.
I went to Sears to look again and found the problem on the one set they had set up as well. But, it wasn't as noticeable as the problem on my set. It appears to be a fairly common problem. I can't believe that just a few people are noticing the problem. I can even see it on the program/channel announcement when changing channels, if I'm close to the screen. What is up?
It's just misconvergence of the 3 panels. Based on what you described, it sounds like that is your problem. It has nothing to do with all the Green issues that been reported in the past. It's very common on the SXRD sets and very easy to "try" and fix. I say try because it depends on the consistency across the entire screen. I can tell you how to correct it step by step if you wish, by I'm leaving in a few minutes to take my daughter shopping for some shoes and my wife has plans for us this evening. It's not difficult and not that dangerous if you are careful and can follow directions

Let me know if you want my help. If it is a convergence issue, you are not going to get a perfect SXRD set very often so exchanging it is not warranted yet. We can give this a try and if it is way off then you may want to exchange it. I'll check this thread late tonight and post up some instructions for you if you want to give it a try.

In the mean time, to make it easy to see what you are doing, search the internet and download a crosshatch pattern. It's better if you have AVIA or something similar, but this will do. Before I picked up AVIA, I just burned a JPG image to a DVD and displayed in on my TV assuming you have DVD player that can display JPG images. Once you have that and can display it, you should be good to go.

I'll check back later (meaning after midnight)
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Old 10-07-2006, 12:22 PM   #6  
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Unforgiven:
That is very kind of you to offer to help out. Maybe others can also learn a little bit from this thread. In fact, I do have an Avia DVD, but I'm not sure which pattern you are referring to. Which one is the cross-hatch pattern?
I also have a few family things I need to do today, so I probably won't be back until late tonight as well. I have a daughter in a high school band competition. Always fun!
Terry
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Old 10-07-2006, 11:34 PM   #7  
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Band huh? That's cool. I'm a classical guitarist and hoping to get my daughter interested in violin when she gets older. But no one cares about that. You want to try to fix your convergence problem, if that is what it is. This is going to be long because I'm going to be as detailed as possible. I'm also doing it realtime on my TV so I am sure that I present it accurately.

About the Avia cross hatch pattern. To get to it go to Advanced Menu, Video test patterns, Geometry & Convergence, Cross Hatch and I use the 100 IRE. When you get this up, look at it close to see where any red, blue or green is showing on any edges of the grid. What you want to ensure is that if you see any convergence that it is uniform over the entire grid. When I fixed mine, there is still some very slight convergence on the lower 6 inches of my screen but it is so minor that you can barely see it. If you see any red, blue or green lines that are way off the white line, you are not going to be able to fix it. That is too far off. The correction will allow you to adjust it by 5 pixels.

With your crosshatch up, you are ready to go. Again, to anyone that is going to try this, understand that you can seriously harm your set while inside the system menu if you do anything wrong so you take complete resposibility if you choose to do this. Keep the following in mind. If at anytime you feel that you have done something wrong, simply hit the power button to turn the set off and you will exit the system menu without saving any changes you have made permanently. Turning the set off does not reset anything you have changed, you will have to power cycle the TV by unplugging it from the power source. That should reset any changes you made as long as you did not commit the change with the save procedure that I will list. If you commit changes wrong, there is no going back unless you know the change you made so it is a good idea to write down any old values before making changes. With that said, here we go . . . I suggest you read the entire thing first before trying it.

First you must get into the system menu. With your TV remote and the tv powered on, push the following buttons in sequence within about 5 seconds:

<power off><display><5><volume up><power on>

If you do it right, you will see the system menu appear on screen. If you are having trouble, try again but make sure you start from the set being powered on.

Once you are in the system menu, you need to know how to navigate yourself around. Nothing here is obvious so be careful. The navigation controls are:

The 2 and 5 move between sections:
The 1 and 4 move back and forth between options
The 3 and 6 make value changes to selected options
The "Jump" key will move you between menus.

If you are on a particular setting and change it, you can press "0" and Enter (ENT) to set it back to it's last saved value.

We are going to manipulate 6 setting to get the best white lines on the cross hatch pattern that you should be viewing. We will be adjusting Horizontal Red, Blue, Green and Vertical Red, Blue, and Green individually. I suggest you note the value shown and go ahead and adjust each one to get it the best.

From the initial system window you see, press the jump button 3 times until you see PANEL SERVICE as the Menu.
Press the 2 to change to the 1 TG Section
Press the 1 to change to the 1 HSIFTR (there will be a default value after that we are going to change) This is the Horizontal Red adjustment. Use the 3 and 6 to decrease and increase this value respectively. The values go from 0 to 5 so you can move the color one pixel at a time through this range. Watch the cross hatch as you adjust the value on position at a time. You will see the red moving up and down. Adjust it until the red it completely behind the white line. There may be some sections of the screen where you may still see some as the screen convergence may not be uniform, but it should be ever so slight and the majority if not all should be clear of red. When you get the Red horizontal where you want it, move on:

Press the 1 again to change to the 2 HSIFTG selection. As you have guessed, this is the Green horizontal adjustment. Follow the same procedure as you did for red and move on.

Press the 1 again to change to the 3 HSIFTB selection. This is for Blue Horizontal. Repeat as above and move on.

Now we have the all the horizontals adjusted so all white lines of the cross hatch should not have any colors showing above or below the line. It's probably not going to be perfect but get it the best you can. If it was off, it will be much, much better.

Now keep pressing 1 until you get to the 25 VSFT_R selection. This is Vertical shift Red. Do the same as above to move the red left and right to get it behind the white of the cross hatch.

Now press 1 to change to 26 VSFT_G This is for Green Vertical which is the one you have been waiting for. Hopefully here you will see the green jump behind the crosshatch when you adjust it and a big smile will come across your face.

Now press 1 to change to 27 VSFT_B. This is the Blue vertical and the last one we will be setting. Adjust it as before.

Now look at your cross hatch and see if it is as white as possible with no other colors showing or as little as possible. If it's not consistant across the entire screen adjust them to enhance the largest portion of the screen possible.

Once you are satisfied, it's time to save your changes. There is no going back if you do this so make sure that you know what you changed.


To save your setting permanently, press <muting> then <enter> (Enter is the ENT key, not the circular button in the middle of the directional pad) To know your changes saved, once you press muting, the word WRITE appears at the top of the screen. When you press ENT, it will turn red. Once it's done, press the power key to turn off the set and exit the service menu.

If your convergence adjustments were not perfect, don't worry about it. As long as you don't see any color bleed around letters from more that about 3 feet away, it's not big deal. Your picture will probably be sharper also with the colors aligned.

That's it! Good luck and let me know how you did and if you have any questions.
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:25 AM   #8  
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I just want to say how much I appreciate your directions. They are pretty easy to follow. Any problems I ran into was my own errors as I surfed thru the menus for the first time. One thing I did find interesting was I couldn't get the changed settings to save. I pressed the mute and got the green "write" but it wouldn't go red. Finally, after exiting back into the main categories, the "write" went red after I pressed ENT.
Another interesting thing is my 50 inch TV will only let me set the horizontal up to 4 rather than 5. So, the scale goes from 0 to 4. The vertical adjustment goes to only 2.
When adjusting to the grid pattern, I noticed that it is a game of give and take. When I was able to get the right hand side of the screen set to optimum viewing, the left side would be out of wack. This was when I was making the horizontal adjustments. Too bad there isn't a 2.5 adjustment between 2 and three. Oh well, can't have everything.
Did the adjusment I made make a difference? I'm not sure, because I had to turn everything off to get ready for another family outing: it's soccer this time with my son. You folks out there who can spend uninterrupted time with your HDTVs should count your blessings I'll let you know more when I get back and have a little time to check things out.
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Old 10-08-2006, 12:19 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgfin
I just want to say how much I appreciate your directions. They are pretty easy to follow. Any problems I ran into was my own errors as I surfed thru the menus for the first time. One thing I did find interesting was I couldn't get the changed settings to save. I pressed the mute and got the green "write" but it wouldn't go red. Finally, after exiting back into the main categories, the "write" went red after I pressed ENT.
Another interesting thing is my 50 inch TV will only let me set the horizontal up to 4 rather than 5. So, the scale goes from 0 to 4. The vertical adjustment goes to only 2.
When adjusting to the grid pattern, I noticed that it is a game of give and take. When I was able to get the right hand side of the screen set to optimum viewing, the left side would be out of wack. This was when I was making the horizontal adjustments. Too bad there isn't a 2.5 adjustment between 2 and three. Oh well, can't have everything.
Did the adjusment I made make a difference? I'm not sure, because I had to turn everything off to get ready for another family outing: it's soccer this time with my son. You folks out there who can spend uninterrupted time with your HDTVs should count your blessings I'll let you know more when I get back and have a little time to check things out.
Glad to help. I've been helped so many times on forums that it's nice to be able to contribute when I can.

The inconsistency is not unusual. There is no .5 adjustment, it is a complete pixel. That is why it is so important to use a cross hatch pattern. In my case, it worked great, but if you are off close to .5 pixels, it will just go from one side to another. That is the best you can do I'm afraid. Just set them where the most realestate looks good and where your green line dissappears on the right side and then see how it looks from your seating position. From what I understand, these adjustments are not moving any physical components, they are bit shifting. You are right about the range. It is from 0 to 4 for a total of 5 pixels. Vertical could be different. I think it is 0 to 2 for a total of 3 pixels. If your convergence is off more than that, there is nothing you can do through adjustments in the menu.

Hopefully it help you out and your eye is the final test. People can get too anal over these things sometimes, myself included. As I said, the upper 80% of mine is perfect now on a cross hatch but you can see some color around it on the bottom few inches. I can't see it further than 3 feet away so it is fine with me. If your green line disappears now and it looks good then make the call. If you bought it locally and are within your 30 days, you may want to arrange for a exchange if this did not get you satifactory results. At least this gave you everything in your power to do to try and correct it yourself.

Good luck and let me know how it looks when you get time to check it out!

P.S. Also, what is the build date of your set? It is on the back. All June builds and most July builds came from the factory with a low pass filter turned on in the system menu which prevents this TV from displaying a 1080 alternating line pattern correctly. It shows it as all grey. This can be corrected in the system menu also if you have one of these build dates and I can tell you how to do this also. CNET's review explains it and they simply say Sony sent them instructions on how to disable the LPF but they will neve share them with the public due to the damage that you can cause if they tell you how to access the system menu. Just a note, CNET did say that the fix did not appear to have any affect on picture quality. Mine was one that had the filter turned on and when I turned if off I swear my picture looked sharper. Just a secondary thing you may want to consider.

Last edited by unforgiven; 10-08-2006 at 12:28 PM..
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Old 10-08-2006, 04:23 PM   #10  
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Well, after a little playing around, I was able to eliminate vitually all color problems on the right hand side of the screen. However, the rub is that I can only choose a color for the line appearing on the other side. You are right, I can't eliminate it entirely. It was initially a violet red on this side before I began (which was acceptable. If you remember, the problem was the green on the right side). When I returned home to look at the set after my initial adjustment, it was blue on the right side and had a yellowish tint (very tolerable) on the other. However, the blue was a little conspicuous and seemed obvious to me during white screen presentations even 6 feet away. So, I went back in and adjusted the horizontal blue. This is where I am now. The blue is now green on the left and the line on the right side is no longer apparent. Probably the best I can expect without professional adjustments and calibration.
You seem to have certainly done your research on these sets. I'll check on that manufacturing date and get back to you. Once again I truly appreciate your time and your willingness to help. BTW, I noticed that it was pretty early in the morning when you put up those instructions. You must be a night person. My brain was pretty fried when I returned from the band competition around 12:30. I can't imagine staying up another couple hours to piece together instructions suitable for others. I'm sure the results would have been slightly different!
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:14 PM   #11  
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I'm definitely a night person. I'm never in bed before 2:00 AM. And Yes, I have researched and read everything there is about the SXRD sets since they hit the market and when they came out without the ears, I jumped on it.

If I understand what you are saying now, your green line on the right side is gone and you have the cross hatch on the right side of your screen looking good. Due to the inconsistant convergence, you now have some green showing on the left side of the TV that you can notice.

Question:

How far away do you notice it? Again, go with a live picture here and look at some credits rolling on an HD channel. The cross hatch it too obvious to use for an eye test. It's just for detailed adjustments. If it looks good to your eye, then you are probably ok. I will admit, I have not heard of a horizontal line that did not run perpendicular to the cross hatch if that is what I understand you are saying. Most of the inconsistencies I have heard of have been where the color will not fit completely behind the white line for every white line. It is usually perpendicular to the vertical or horizontal white line. I don't think it's a big deal if it passes your eye test, just different from what I've seen and heard about.

If you are debating on whether to exchange your set, try another test for a few other problems that have been popping up. It's not apparent unless you know what to look for. There is a green haze that has been showing up. It's still unknown if this is the same thing as the green blob that haunted the first generation SXRD. It's pretty well decided that Sony has addressed the green blob problem and has greatly reduced it's occurance, but not solved it completely.

Put on a black and white movie or better yet a solid grey background. I think there is something on the AVIA DVD that shows a solid grey screen. Make sure your TV has been powered on for at least 30 minutes before trying this test as it is normal for the SXRD to show some green haze during warmup. Look closely at every area of the grey background for any green haze or blotching, especially in each 1/4 of the screen. If you see any green haze, you might want to opt for an exchange. If you are watching a black and white movie (Most people use Sin City or you can just turn your color all the way down) look at faces for the green haze. Make sure you see a face in at least each quarter of the screen.

Some other things to check if you are still wanting additional things out of range. Use the AVIA cd to check for overscan. The normal CD is only going to show the bottom and top because they don't have the 16x9 patterns. Acceptable overscan has been 3% or less.

Put the cross hatch back on and compare the horizontal lines with the frame of the TV to make sure your image is not tilted. Some have been running about a 1/4 inch drop going from right to left. This can be fixed with some set pins behind the bottom plate pretty easily though.

Put up a white image and look carefully at the screen for small blotches that might represent dead pixels except they are slightly bigger. There have been some reports of dust or smut that did not get removed from the screens when there was a fire at the plant where these are built. These were very early builds (June) that had this though.

Oh, and your comment about getting it as good as possible with out a professional calibration, I'm not a calibrator, but I don't think there is anything that can be done by a calibrator. It would take a sony technician to correct that problem and they would probably say that it was in tolerance if you requested it.

Not trying to scare you on the tv. It is an awesome TV. Just trying to help you get that "warm and fuzzy" you deserve for the money you spend on these things.

Last edited by unforgiven; 10-08-2006 at 09:19 PM..
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Old 10-09-2006, 05:30 AM   #12  
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Well, I think I found the real problem thanks to your last post. I was up early this morning getting the kids ready for school and turned on the television. There was an old movie on AMC and it was in black and white. Not only did I notice the green blurring, but I also noticed a pink push in the lower quarter of the right side of the screen. So, I guess I'm going to take it back to Circuit City. I'm not sure if I'll exchange it for another or go with a Samsung DLP. I'm dissapointed because it really is an amazing television. I'm relieved because I purchased this TV on the 22nd of last month, so I can still take it back. I'm a little gun shy because this problem with SXRDs is pretty prevalent.Seems to me all of this new technology still has a little way to go before it becomes as reliable and consistent as the good ol' CRT models.
Thanks for your help. I'm sure other people will benefit from the information you have provided here. I will let you know how it goes and what I decide to do. Looks like I might have to wait a little while longer for the warm fuzzy feeling
Best Wishes,
Terry
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:56 AM   #13  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgfin
Well, I think I found the real problem thanks to your last post. I was up early this morning getting the kids ready for school and turned on the television. There was an old movie on AMC and it was in black and white. Not only did I notice the green blurring, but I also noticed a pink push in the lower quarter of the right side of the screen. So, I guess I'm going to take it back to Circuit City. I'm not sure if I'll exchange it for another or go with a Samsung DLP. I'm dissapointed because it really is an amazing television. I'm relieved because I purchased this TV on the 22nd of last month, so I can still take it back. I'm a little gun shy because this problem with SXRDs is pretty prevalent.Seems to me all of this new technology still has a little way to go before it becomes as reliable and consistent as the good ol' CRT models.
Thanks for your help. I'm sure other people will benefit from the information you have provided here. I will let you know how it goes and what I decide to do. Looks like I might have to wait a little while longer for the warm fuzzy feeling
Best Wishes,
Terry
How long had your TV been on when you saw the pink and green? This is normal for the first 30 min or so on the SXRD. It takes that long for it to get warmed up. It still isn't right but you may see the rainbows with DLP especially with a B&W movie. Neither technology is perfect.
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:59 AM   #14  
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As holtzd metioned and I also stated in the tests, make sure your TV was on for at least 30 minutes before checking it. It is normal for the color irregularities during the warm up period. It should not take 30 minutes, but that is a good benchmark to ensure the TV in warmed up. If you definitely have this after 30 minutes, that is totally different than the convergence issue we have been working on and I would return the set also. If you really like the SXRD over the Samsung, you may want to try another set. That is why I buy local so I can easily make an exchange. When you make an exchange, the 30 day evaluation period should start over again giving you another 30 days for the new set. Now that you know what to look for, you can easily evaluate it, but no guarantees long term. That is why an Extended Warranty is a must for the SXRD set. You don't have to pay the outragious price CC wants for it either. You can pick up a 5 year extended from Sony for $285.

One other thing, when checking for color uniformity, make sure you do it in a low light setting. With the non-reflective screen, it is very easy to interpret light reflection being dispersed as a color uniformity problem. Especially if you have a lamp with a shade off to one side or a window with sunlight. If you notice what you think is a color problem. Note where it is an move your head all around the front of the TV screen. If it is a reflection, it will alter position as the reflective angle changes. If it is not a reflection, it will obviously remain in a fixed location.

Hope it works out for you. These things can be quite trying at times.

Last edited by unforgiven; 10-09-2006 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 10-09-2006, 05:21 PM   #15  
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Thanks guys for reminding me about the 30 minute warm-up thing. But, last night I had it on for three or four hours and then we started to watch Space Cowboys (not a great movie, but my wife likes it). The first few minutes is in black and white. That is actually when I noticed the pink coloration around the bottom of the right corner. But, I thought it was probably in the movie, so I let it pass. It was this morning during the AMC movie that I noticed the green for the first time.
Just to make sure, I put it on again this afternoon and let it run for about an hour with the color completely down. Although the effect did get better over time, the green and pink tint was still apparent after being on for well over 30 minutes. It was particularly noticeable during any uniform gray backgrounds. It's probably better that I go ahead and return it. What I do afterwards I really haven't thought thru clearly at this time. I'll keep you posted.
Oh, and thanks for the tip about the 5 year Sony warranty. I did get the CC warrany (475.00 for 4 years). I almost ordered the TV thru Crutchfield because of the higher cost of the warranty. But, CC was offering 150.00 off the price as well as free delivery. So, I figured it would be better to purchase from a local store. It was still a little more expensive because of the in-state tax, but I still decided on the brick and mortar store.
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