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low bitrate/cheap codec

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Old 03-21-2019, 07:13 PM   #1  
more bitrate
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Default low bitrate/cheap codec

if someone here has connections to the OTA broadcasters at Mount Wilson calif in LA could you tell them to increase the Bitrate or get a better codec. Some channels are not good on a 1080 HD tv. Even worse on a 4k.
There are few HD channels in 1080 and 720 that are real good. Most are 480. Some 480 are really good on a HD tv. Some are just awful with ghosting, poor resolution and bad color. It's not hard to pick out the bad channels. It's the bitrate or codec.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:36 AM   #2  
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Originally Posted by chucklp View Post
Some 480 are really good on a HD tv. Some are just awful with ghosting, poor resolution and bad color. It's not hard to pick out the bad channels. It's the bitrate or codec.
Hello, chucklp; welcome to the forum.

It's the compression to cram in more subchannels. Compressed 480i can look pretty bad. Even if the 480i isn't compressed, the picture quality isn't likely to be any better than that of the original material.



Even analog looks better than compressed 480i:



I suggest you call the station engineer for any channel that doesn't meet your expectations.

Any imperfections in the picture quality will be more obvious on a larger screen. I call this the "Big Screen Effect."
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Last edited by rabbit73; 03-22-2019 at 07:48 AM..
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:52 AM   #3  
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To put it bluntly, when you have low-budget broadcasters trying to stuff 20 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag, the result is going to look like crap.

Some of those operators cram 10-15 subchannels into a single channel that should, at most have a handful or less. Kind of like trying to watch YouTube over dial-up.
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:54 AM   #4  
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To put it bluntly, when you have low-budget broadcasters trying to stuff 20 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag, the result is going to look like crap.
And... take 20 pounds (or less) of crap, attempting to make that "appear" to be 4K by digital magic is only lipstick on a pig.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:24 PM   #5  
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wouldn't every channel and sub channels need a codec making the codec the problem?
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:14 AM   #6  
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No, what you are calling the "codec" is not the problem. The codecs are only doing what they are told to do, that is, stuff 20 pounds of crap into a bag that should only hold 5 pounds. That results in horrible over-compression and loss of much detail.

Look, if the quality isn't up to your standards and you do not require that content, don't watch it. Many TV sets have options to skip unwanted channels, use that feature.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:22 AM   #7  
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Over the years since digital TV went live, the encoders have improved immensely, but it is still impossible to cram 5 or 6 digital channels onto one RF channel and not have the quality of the picture extremely compromised. One 1080i stream with full bandwidth almost fills one RF frequency, so you have to cut the quality of the stream down to even add one 480p stream to the same channel. There are dynamic encoders that do a pretty good job of putting 2 720p and one 480p channel on one frequency but that is about the limit without causing visible degradation of the picture. Current OTA broadcasts are all MPEG2, I think ATSC 3.0 will be MPEG3-ish and can do a better job of recoverable compression, but we are not there, yet.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:35 PM   #8  
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Been goin' over this for awhile. i dont understand why the OTA TV stations don't broadcast in higher definition in at least 720. If sponsers/commercials want people to watch maybe they should make the programming more desirable. A a lot of OTA TV is really bad.
A lot of programming is 480. Its not good on a HD1080 and worse on a 4k. Sometimes its really bad. Why are the OTA broadcasters so stingy with the bitrate? Could you please use at least 720 please.

Last edited by chucklp; 10-05-2019 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:22 AM   #9  
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There's a limited amount of bandwidth. Some OTA local stations choose to provide 2, 3 or more subchannels. That compromises available bandwidth.

Some prefer quantity over quality.
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:37 AM   #10  
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Originally Posted by chucklp View Post
Why are the OTA broadcasters so stingy with the bitrate? Could you please use at least 720 please.
It's all about money and profit. The more sub channels they have, the more revenue they receive. To them, income is more important than image quality.

What is the callsign of the channel in your area that bothers you the most? How many sub channels does it have?
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:46 PM   #11  
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inyoureyes>>>>>There's a limited amount of bandwidth. Some OTA local stations choose to provide 2, 3 or more subchannels. That compromises available bandwidth. Some prefer quantity over quality.

rabbit73>>>>>It's all about money and profit. The more sub channels they have, the more revenue they receive. To them, income is more important than image quality.
What is the callsign of the channel in your area that bothers you the most? How many sub channels does it have?>>>>>

yeah, its always about the money. always. on the bad channel thing.....i dont want to bring any bad attention to the ones that are suffering. not much we can do about it.
thanks.
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:45 PM   #12  
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ii dont want to bring any bad attention to the ones that are suffering. not much we can do about it.
thanks.
Why not?
Not bringing attention helps no one.
Maybe it's just your local providers. It could be different in other markets.

And the ones that are suffering are not the providers, so... bring in bad attention/complaints with specifics.
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:52 PM   #13  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklp View Post
i dont want to bring any bad attention to the ones that are suffering. not much we can do about it.
thanks.
I don't mind saying. The bad 480i that I showed above is WPXV ION.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WPXV

Here it is again:



I was previously helping someone who had just bought a new large screen TV. His wife said that the shopping network on their local channel was so bad she couldn't watch it. They have the same ION channel that I have, WPXV.

Last edited by rabbit73; 10-06-2019 at 04:41 PM..
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:43 PM   #14  
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inyoureyes>>>>>#12
And the ones that are suffering are not the providers, so... bring in bad attention/complaints with specifics.>>>>>
it wont help. nothing will change. it never does..
chuck>>>>>what i meant by "the suffering" was the video and anybody who tries to watch it.

rabbit73>>>>>#13
I was previously helping someone who had just bought a new large screen TV. His wife said that the shopping network on their local channel was so bad she couldn't watch it. They have the same ION channel that I have, WPXV.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

i dont recall any channels that bad. a lot of channels with subs that are fair are all 480. the channel that i dont like is 1080 on the main 5.1 KTLA. there are 4 channels from 5.1 to 5.4. the main 5.1 is 1080. its good. the subs are not good especially the 5.3thistv.
its not as bad as the ION you mentioned but the picture sucks. its dark, poor resolution right on the borderline of get out which i do sometimes because it's so bad.
maybe these channels would be ok on an old tube TV but they are real bad on my 1080. maybe the picture would be ok on the subs if the main 5.1 was bumped down to 720 and move some bandwidth to the subs that are bad.
well there it is. probably wont help any and maybe just piss off the corp execs.

Last edited by chucklp; 10-06-2019 at 06:03 PM..
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:04 PM   #15  
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Originally Posted by chucklp View Post
.....the channel that i dont like is 1080 on the main 5.1 KTLA. there are 4 channels from 5.1 to 5.4. the main 5.1 is 1080. its good. the subs are not good especially the 5.3thistv.
its not as bad as the ION you mentioned but the picture sucks. its dark, poor resolution right on the borderline of get out which i do sometimes because it's so bad.
maybe these channels would be ok on an old tube TV but they are real bad on my 1080. maybe the picture would be ok on the subs if the main 5.1 was bumped down to 720 and move some bandwidth to the subs that are bad.
Thank you, I see it now:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=KTLA

I think you are correct; if the main was 720i, it would allow more bandwidth for the subs.

KCBS has 1080i for the main and 480i for two subs. How does it look on your TV?

https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...n=KCBS#station

I think a lot depends upon the equipment that the station has and the quality of the original material.
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