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Old 07-04-2018, 01:27 PM   #16  
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Thank you, gentlemen, for all of the responses. I did just order a roof mount for the antenna from @mazon (38" J-Pole Antenna Mount).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It measures 38" high and will hopefully get the antenna well clear of the roof line and provide better line of site to the stations. I will also angle the antenna a hair more south to see if that aids detection of the Hi-V channels. According to the FCC website; NBC is RF channel 12/TV channel 5, and CBS is RF channel 13/TV channel 12. As someone else mentioned, it is odd that TV Fool doesn't even show the local FOX station although FCC does. Here is a link to the map.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038686b1c4e53
Rbinck, thanks for the idea about using a telescoping pole. My pool cleaning pole just found an additional skill!
I'm going to have to do some more research on the ground wire. I did purchase an inline coax surge protector which seems like it would provide very little if any protection against a strike.

...comcast. I Just got off the phone with them and I must say, it wasn't my worst experience. My plan was to cancel cable and TV (I was on a triple play thing and even though I never used the phone, it would have actually INCREASED the cost to drop it). Last time I considered this, they told me to just keep my internet, it would be $109 a month although I found the price for $79 online..... Today, I found the Blast internet (150mbps) for $49 a month which did jump to $71-79 after a year. I realized I wouldn't get the new subscriber price of $49, but at least wanted the $79 "normal" price in front of me when I called. Well, today must have been my lucky day because I was able to cancel cable and phone and got the Blast internet for $45 (additional discount from $49 was due to eco pay). At this point I'm still waiting for the rug to get pulled out from under me, but I just checked, and had download speed of 175mbps on my phone going through the wifi.
Again, I sincerely appreciate all the support y"all have given me. I will get this figured out sooner or later. Happy Independence Day!
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Old 07-04-2018, 01:36 PM   #17  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73

Adjacent channel interference isn't usually a problem unless there is a great difference in signal strength between the two channels. There is often a highlighted red "a" before the callsign in a TVFool report as an adjacent channel warning.

According to the ATSC guidelines, you should be able to receive the weaker channel if the signal strength of the stronger channel is less than 33 dB more than the weaker channel.
Yes, but with an omni-directional antenna a reflection or two could change everything.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:54 PM   #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DynomiteDave View Post
As someone else mentioned, it is odd that TV Fool doesn't even show the local FOX station although FCC does. Here is a link to the map.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038686b1c4e53
Thank you for the more accurate TVFool report. The staff at the TVFool site is very small; they aren't able to make corrections to the database that they use to generate reports. The number of errors has increased because of many changes during the FCC mandated Repack of the UHF band.
Quote:
I'm going to have to do some more research on the ground wire. I did purchase an inline coax surge protector which seems like it would provide very little if any protection against a strike.
An inline coax surge protector is designed to protect the tuner of your TV, but they have been known to degrade the weak OTA signals because they connect a protective device between the center conductor of the coax and the shield.

The ground for the mast as per the NEC guidelines, is not designed to survive a strike, it is supposed to drain any buildup of charge on the mast to discourage a strike, and to shunt any voltage to ground if a live wire contacts the mast. The ground for the coax is to reject interference and to shunt any leakage current to ground to protect you from shock. The coax is connected to AC operated equipment. All AC operated equipment has leakage current, even when operating properly; when not, you are at risk. I have intimate knowledge of leakage current because of three close calls with shock. I bought a leakage current tester to check the equipment that I use.



Quote:
Happy Independence Day!
Thank you, Dave; I wish you the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynomiteDave View Post
A). Do I just need to raise the antenna up higher on one of those pole mounts, or.....
B). Is the antenna I picked actually just garbage and I need to return it for a better model, or....
C). Do I need to get a separate antenna just for the Hi_V stations?
I'd prefer to have as few antennas sticking up as possible, but will do what ever is needed.
A).That would be a good idea, as suggested by rbinck, with the antenna that you have. If it doesn't get what you want, you will need a different antenna.
B). No, the antenna that you picked isn't garbage, but it might not be the best antenna for your location. It does have very good Amazon reviews. Its single dipole for VHF-High doesn't have enough inherent gain before amplification for your weakest desired channels on VHF-High. It's probably OK for UHF, but when it is oriented for the best SSW reception, it might degrade the NNW reception of WPBF ABC; if oriented for NNW, the converse might be true. The description for the antenna gives the impression that it is omnidirectional. This is not true, the VHF dipole is bidirectional, and they call the antenna multi-directional, whatever that is. Doing further research (I'm OCD, too) with videos indicates it is quite directional, as mentioned in a reply to a comment by a user who compared it with his Channel Master 4228HD in his attic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMsiPe26Fg
C). It is quite possible that you will need a separate VHF-High antenna if the Antop antenna is not sufficient for 12 and 13.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TunerTest4.jpg (225.3 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Leakage Current Tests2.jpg (229.9 KB, 1 views)

Last edited by rabbit73; 07-04-2018 at 05:17 PM..
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Old 07-04-2018, 05:56 PM   #19  
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Yes a channel master telescoping mast with a Winegrud 8200U with a rotor and
A channel master 7778 or a channel master 7777amp! And use a tripod a five foot
One should work well and a good grund and rg11,cable good luck and be safe and look out for power lines.happy 4TH too everyone.good luck.
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:24 PM   #20  
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Originally Posted by rbinck View Post
Yes, but with an omni-directional antenna a reflection or two could change everything.
Problems with multipath reflections are very likely at his location, which makes it even more critical to find the right spot for his antenna, as you said.

The best location for an antenna isn't always where we want to put it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 07-04-2018 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 07-04-2018, 07:45 PM   #21  
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This is an image of your new report:



This is your link to that report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038686b1c4e53

and this is the rabbitears.info report based on my estimate of your actual location. As before, the missing WFLX Fox now shows:



I also did an FM report that shows strong local FM transmitters that are most likely causing interference to the reception of your VHF-High channels. The strong local TV and FM transmitters are probably overloading your amp and your tuner. This creates IMD (Intermodulation Distortion) products that will damage your weaker signals.

http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/1...c/Radar-FM.png



You can do your own FM report here to see how close I was, but it doesn't link like a TVFool report; I had to create the link above.
http://www.fmfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29

I did ask you previously if you were using the high or low gain setting on the amp, but I don't think you answered.

You will probably need an FM filter, but they are getting hard to find. You can use a HLSJ (VHF-High/VHF-Low Separator-Joiner) or 2 in series, as an FM filter (high and line ports). It will block everything below channel 7 including FM and VHF-low.
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:17 PM   #22  
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To get an idea of how strong your signals are, you can use the NM (Noise Margin) number on your report. Your report assumes that your antenna is in the clear with no trees or buildings in the signal path, which might not be true in your case.

Rabbitears.info says WBWP is off the air, so WTCE is probably your strongest TV transmitter.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WBWP

WTCE has a NM of 64.2 dB even before adding any antenna gain. If you add the 8 dB gain of a medium gain antenna, that brings you up to 72.2 dB, which is overload territory even before adding any preamp gain.



Interpreting Noise Margin in the TV Fool Report
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html

This means that you can't use a preamp to help because it will be overloaded. You have to have more VHF antenna gain if the FM filter doesn't cure the problem.

If no preamp gain and an FM filter doesn't work with the Antop antenna, you would have to have a UHF antenna for NNW and a UHF antenna for SSW, plus a VHF antenna. Combining two UHF antennas aimed in different directions doesn't always work. Combining a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna is easy with a UVSJ.

One possible solution you can consider is to use a bi-directional UHF antenna like the Antennas Direct C2V with its reflector removed to make it bi-directional for NNW and SSW or the Antennas Direct C2MAX which doesn't have a reflector. Both come with a VHF dipole. Just add the FM filter, and give it a test.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...-Complete.html

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...V-Antenna.html

You still need to find the best location on your property for the antenna.

If you are still having problems, show us some photos of where your antenna is mounted, and the trees and buildings near it, indicating direction.

If you want me to make a more accurate analysis, send me the coordinates for your antenna location by PM, so that I can see where the green signal lines fall in a satellite view. I see houses close together and quite a few trees in your general area.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 07-04-2018 at 08:53 PM..
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:51 AM   #23  
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Holy cow! Rabbit, thanks for all the info. I've checked the channel list both with and without the inline pre-amp turned on. With it on, I got a few extra channels. When I turned it off, some of the less than stellar signal channels disappeared altogether with a "no or weak signal" message. The pole I ordered is expected to arrive tomorrow, and I will run some tests with the antenna set at the top which will put the antenna at approximately 20' up. I'll also test rotating the antenna so the VHF dipoles are facing a bit more south and see at what point I get the best signal from the NBC/CBS channels to the south and the ABC channel north of me. FOX is also south and comes in great. I was even thinking of rotating the so called "omnidirectional" antenna so that it faces south and the VHF dipoles would extend east/west to see if that helped. If this antenna has a reflector (unlike the 2 you suggested earlier), I may lose the channels coming from the NNW (ABC). I also plan to remove the inline surge protector to see if that helps in any way. Lastly, I'm going to start figuring out how to set up a ground from the antenna. The plan is to run the ground wire right down the side of the house and just stick it in the ground..... I have no idea what I'm doing). The ground has pavers here, but I figured I could drill a 1/4" hole and shove a ground spike in it.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:03 AM   #24  
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Default God I love this guy Ribbit !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
To get an idea of how strong your signals are, you can use the NM (Noise Margin) number on your report. Your report assumes that your antenna is in the clear with no trees or buildings in the signal path, which might not be true in your case.

Rabbitears.info says WBWP is off the air, so WTCE is probably your strongest TV transmitter.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WBWP

WTCE has a NM of 64.2 dB even before adding any antenna gain. If you add the 8 dB gain of a medium gain antenna, that brings you up to 72.2 dB, which is overload territory even before adding any preamp gain.



Interpreting Noise Margin in the TV Fool Report
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html

This means that you can't use a preamp to help because it will be overloaded. You have to have more VHF antenna gain if the FM filter doesn't cure the problem.

If no preamp gain and an FM filter doesn't work with the Antop antenna, you would have to have a UHF antenna for NNW and a UHF antenna for SSW, plus a VHF antenna. Combining two UHF antennas aimed in different directions doesn't always work. Combining a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna is easy with a UVSJ.

One possible solution you can consider is to use a bi-directional UHF antenna like the Antennas Direct C2V with its reflector removed to make it bi-directional for NNW and SSW or the Antennas Direct C2MAX which doesn't have a reflector. Both come with a VHF dipole. Just add the FM filter, and give it a test.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...-Complete.html

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...V-Antenna.html

You still need to find the best location on your property for the antenna.

If you are still having problems, show us some photos of where your antenna is mounted, and the trees and buildings near it, indicating direction.

If you want me to make a more accurate analysis, send me the coordinates for your antenna location by PM, so that I can see where the green signal lines fall in a satellite view. I see houses close together and quite a few trees in your general area.
You will see that rabbit knows his stuff THANK you and
don't forget the channel master 7777,has an fm,trap all so.

Last edited by Hdb91xg; 07-05-2018 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:52 PM   #25  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

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Not if you stagger stack a set of hi and low band vhf
But no one make's them no more but l look up
Stagger stacking vhf outdoor tv antennas
I don't remember what one it was but it has REAL good
information on how too do it right it tocks about everything right
Down too how airplanes mess with vhf and other things,
And how to solve problems with vhf and why you should stagger stack vhf outdoor tv antenna good luck maybe Ribbit can find it or stagger stacking Wineg outdoor tv antenna good luck with your antennas and be safe and look out for power lines when installing an outdoor tv antenna.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:40 AM   #26  
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http://www.hdtvprimer.com/index.shtml
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:18 AM   #27  
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https://www.highdefforum.com/local-h...-antennas.html

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...2ueysIDTEvQ_2P
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:32 PM   #28  
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Default Hello there you found it!!!

Well thank you for finding it you guys can learn a lot
about vhf,Hi&low band vhf in your eyes keep it
in a safe place becuse I don't no how much longer it will be there!!
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:08 PM   #29  
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And look at stacking Winegard antennas.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:52 AM   #30  
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Thanks I had the same issue and now its clear for me
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