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  • 1 Post By rabbit73
  • 1 Post By rabbit73

what's the deal with WVIR Charlottesville VA?

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Old 06-14-2018, 01:08 PM   #1  
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Join Date: May 2018
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Default what's the deal with WVIR Charlottesville VA?

From where I sit, that station seems to be run by a bunch of chowderheads. There must be something going on there that I don't understand.
.
From 1973 to 2004, they were the only full-powered station between Richmond and Roanoke.
In 2009, they were bumped from analog channel 29 to digital 32.
In 2017, they agreed to take $46 million to give up 32 and move to channel 2. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
.
VHF-low is the ghetto of digital broadcasting because it is near impossible to pick up with an indoor antenna. Channel 2 is the sub-basement of the ghetto. Nobody makes an antenna to receive channel 2 anymore.
.
So, why (other than the obvious $46M) would a station agree to be sent into broadcast oblivion?
With nobody watching, I predict that WVIR NBC-29, will go off the air sometime in 2019 or 2020.
.
I e-mailed WVIR for comment, but they did not respond.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:11 PM   #2  
It's the Antenna!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WileyOne View Post
what's the deal with WVIR Charlottesville VA?

There must be something going on there that I don't understand.

In 2017, they agreed to take $46 million to give up 32 and move to channel 2. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
.
VHF-low is the ghetto of digital broadcasting because it is near impossible to pick up with an indoor antenna. Channel 2 is the sub-basement of the ghetto. Nobody makes an antenna to receive channel 2 anymore.

So, why (other than the obvious $46M) would a station agree to be sent into broadcast oblivion?
My first thought was that they wanted to stay on the air and receive the maximum amount of money in the reverse auction, so that they would have a bargaining chip for further negotiations.

But, after reading the WVIR WiKi page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WVIR-TV

and reading Reference 4 quote from WVIR chief engineer Bob Jenkins
https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/br...complex-repack

I think it is because they wanted to stay on the air, but weren't given any good choices:



WVIR Chief Engineer, Bob Jenkins

Quote:
Some U stations, though, are accepting V real estate. One of these is Charlottesville, Va.’s WVIR-TV, which has been operating on Channel 32 since the 2009 repack, but the NBC afilliate will be setting up shop on Channel 2, according to chief engineer, Bob Jenkins.
“We’re not really happy with it, but we didn’t have a lot of choices,” he said. “We could take the money and go off the air, or hopefully, channel share with another station, or we could take the money and go to Channel 2.”
Jenkins noted that when his station moves to its new channel, there may be problems in reaching all of their existing viewers.
“FCC modeling says [the new facility] will replicate our coverage, but when you deal with the real-world noise and everything else, that may not be the case,” he said. “We may have to install some small ‘gap fillers.’”

MUSICAL CHAIRS
In describing the WVIRTV move, Jenkins observed a pattern that seems to be occurring in some markets.
“There are three other stations in our market,” he said. “Channel 19 here is relocating to our [existing] Channel 32. We could have just lowered our power. All of the transmitters are on the same mountain, about 400 or 500 feet apart.”
WBRA seems to be doing OK on 3:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WBRA

On the other hand, WBBM CBS in Chicago didn't do as well. They were on analog channel 2 and were assigned to channel 3 during the transition from analog to digital. Reception with indoor antennas was so bad that they had to move to 12, which is where they are now. Then they had to add a DRT (Digital Replacement Translator) on channel 26 to fill in the weak signal areas.

https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=wbbm

https://www.rabbitears.info/tvq.php?...ems&facid=9617
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Last edited by rabbit73; 06-15-2018 at 11:55 AM.. Reason: Added WBBM
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:21 PM   #3  
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WVIR I can receive it get a better antenna lol
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:27 PM   #4  
It's the Antenna!
 

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Default High Noise Level on Channel 2

Another channel that was having reception problems was KSNV NBC on real channel 2, virtual channel 3.1, in Las Vegas.

In June of 2012 I tried to help a poster (on another forum) in Las Vegas who had been able to receive KSNV at his old location with an indoor antenna, but not at his new location.

I told him that it was listed on real channel 2 by TVFool, rabbitears.info, and the FCC database; he would need a big antenna to receive NBC.

He didn't believe me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwarren
Yes, but can't receive it. Tried three antennas but in my upstairs apartment, everything except chan 3.1 and 3.2 and 3.3 comes in. Seems kinda rediculous to receive 60 stations (channels) and not those!

Guess their signal requires something special the other 60 channels don't!

I'm currently using a 5 element yagi (UHF) to get what I get............
Quote:
3.1 and 3.2 are digital UHF that I received LAST YEAR in my house a mile south of here with only Rabbit Ears on a ten foot pole, and now can't get them.

If they have gone back to using the vhf low freqs, that wouldn't make sense.
Quote:
I don't know where you are comming from, but I've been building antennae for nearly 60 years and work radio and tv freqs from 300 kilohz to 3 gig.

OTA includes both digital and analog channels !
The old VHF frequencies, especially 54 to 60 MHZ Is unusable for commercial TV now. Has been for eons because of six meters ham band which I use to work exclusively when I was a teenager and knew John The Baptist!

I quit! ! ! !
I told him not to quit and gave him some ideas to try. I gave him a link to the Las Vegas thread (Local HDTV Info and Reception > Las Vegas, NV - HDTV) on that forum so that he could see that he was not alone in having trouble with NBC.

In November of 2014, Sinclair did a license swap and put KSNV on channel 22; problem solved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSNV

The opinion was that the tall buildings and a high noise level from electrical signs were making channel 2 reception difficult.

There is a diagram in a paper that shows just high the noise level is on channel 2:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

Planning Factors for Fixed and Portable DTTV Reception
by Oded Bendov, Yiyan Wu, Charles W. Rhodes and John F.X. Browne



Also, the way that the FCC computes the maximum power allowed for a VHF-Low channel has been questioned, because it doesn't include a realistic allowance for the high noise level.

https://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/peerrev...eview-memo.doc

SUBJECT: Peer Review of SHVERA DTV Receiver Performance Study

Study of Digital Television Field Strength Standards
and Testing Procedures


Page 16

21. Other commenting parties assert that the planning factors should be substantially modified or are otherwise insufficient for use in determining household eligibility pursuant to SHVERA. EchoStar argues that the signal strength standard should be revised to account for DTV receiver performance, man-made noise, indoor antenna use, and the lack of rotation in outdoor antennas. It submits that the signal sensitivities of the current generation of receivers are worse than the signal sensitivities assumed in the DTV planning factors and that as a result many consumer DTV sets may not be able to display a DTV picture even when the signal strength meets the Commission’s standards. EchoStar also argues that for the low VHF channels man-made noise was not adequately taken into account in the planning factors and that as a result the Commission did not build in a sufficient margin for noise when it set the signal strength standard for those channels. With regard to indoor antenna, EchoStar argues that an outdoor antenna is not practical for many households, particularly those located in apartment buildings. It further contends that even households with outdoor antennas often do not have rotating antennas or have a practical means of re-pointing their antennas “on the fly” to achieve optimum reception for every broadcast station in the market. EchoStar suggests that the Commission should take these factors into account and recommend modifications to the signal strength standard.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 06-15-2018 at 07:04 PM..
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Old 06-16-2018, 06:26 AM   #5  
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Default Ksnv

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Another channel that was having reception problems was KSNV NBC on real channel 2, virtual channel 3.1, in Las Vegas.

In June of 2012 I tried to help a poster (on another forum) in Las Vegas who had been able to receive KSNV at his old location with an indoor antenna, but not at his new location.

I told him that it was listed on real channel 2 by TVFool, rabbitears.info, and the FCC database; he would need a big antenna to receive NBC.

He didn't believe me.





I told him not to quit and gave him some ideas to try. I gave him a link to the Las Vegas thread (Local HDTV Info and Reception > Las Vegas, NV - HDTV) on that forum so that he could see that he was not alone in having trouble with NBC.

In November of 2014, Sinclair did a license swap and put KSNV on channel 22; problem solved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSNV

The opinion was that the tall buildings and a high noise level from electrical signs were making channel 2 reception difficult.

There is a diagram in a paper that shows just high the noise level is on channel 2:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

Planning Factors for Fixed and Portable DTTV Reception
by Oded Bendov, Yiyan Wu, Charles W. Rhodes and John F.X. Browne



Also, the way that the FCC computes the maximum power allowed for a VHF-Low channel has been questioned, because it doesn't include a realistic allowance for the high noise level.

https://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/peerrev...eview-memo.doc

SUBJECT: Peer Review of SHVERA DTV Receiver Performance Study

Study of Digital Television Field Strength Standards
and Testing Procedures


Page 16

21. Other commenting parties assert that the planning factors should be substantially modified or are otherwise insufficient for use in determining household eligibility pursuant to SHVERA. EchoStar argues that the signal strength standard should be revised to account for DTV receiver performance, man-made noise, indoor antenna use, and the lack of rotation in outdoor antennas. It submits that the signal sensitivities of the current generation of receivers are worse than the signal sensitivities assumed in the DTV planning factors and that as a result many consumer DTV sets may not be able to display a DTV picture even when the signal strength meets the Commission’s standards. EchoStar also argues that for the low VHF channels man-made noise was not adequately taken into account in the planning factors and that as a result the Commission did not build in a sufficient margin for noise when it set the signal strength standard for those channels. With regard to indoor antenna, EchoStar argues that an outdoor antenna is not practical for many households, particularly those located in apartment buildings. It further contends that even households with outdoor antennas often do not have rotating antennas or have a practical means of re-pointing their antennas “on the fly” to achieve optimum reception for every broadcast station in the market. EchoStar suggests that the Commission should take these factors into account and recommend modifications to the signal strength standard.
Keep up the good work NICE!!!
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