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My Weekend Project - DB8e

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Old 06-03-2018, 08:03 PM   #1
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Default My Weekend Project - DB8e

After extensive research and advice from forum members here, I've ordered a DB8e antenna through Amazon for $116.53.

My situation:
channels 16 thru 46 in Charlottesville VA, 32 miles, LOS
channels 22 thru 29 in Richmond VA, 45 miles, 2Edge
channel 12 in Richmond, 47 miles 2Edge
Charlottesville and Richmond are 98 degrees apart
My plan:
mount the new DB8E on the roof
point all 8 bays at Charlottesville -- Scan
point all 8 bays at Richmond -- Scan.
point 4 bays at Charlottesville and disconnect the other 4 bays -- Scan
point 4 bays at Richmond and disconnect the other 4 bays -- Scan
point 4 bays at Charlottesville and 4 bays at Richmond -- Scan
This should give me a pretty good idea of what signals are possible and the relative strengths.

If certain channels are weak, I have a couple of pre-amps I can try. I could connect one to each bank of 4 bays before the combiner, or I can try just one preamp after the combiner. My down-lead is about 45 feet before it hits a 4-way splitter, so I will almost definitely need some kind of distribution amp to drive the last 30 feet to each TV.

Hopefully, I can get all the channels I want with just this one antenna, pointed in two directions. If not, I may be buying a 4-bowtie antenna to stack vertically with this one.

I can live without channel 12 until the NBC affiliate in Charlottesville (WVIR) moves to channel 2 in about 15 months. Then, I may need to devise a VHF solution to bring in either channel 12 from Richmond or channel 2 from Charlottesville. There will also be a channel 8 coming in Ashland, -26 degrees from Richmond. I'll have plenty of time to figure all that out.

Comments? Suggestions?
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:05 AM   #2
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Without seeing your TVFool report, or knowing the exact coordinates of your antenna from a PM, all I can say is try your plan and good luck.
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 06-04-2018 at 09:21 AM..
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:07 AM   #3
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Default DB8 and vhf??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WileyOne View Post
After extensive research and advice from forum members here, I've ordered a DB8e antenna through Amazon for $116.53.

My situation:
channels 16 thru 46 in Charlottesville VA, 32 miles, LOS
channels 22 thru 29 in Richmond VA, 45 miles, 2Edge
channel 12 in Richmond, 47 miles 2Edge
Charlottesville and Richmond are 98 degrees apart
My plan:
mount the new DB8E on the roof
point all 8 bays at Charlottesville -- Scan
point all 8 bays at Richmond -- Scan.
point 4 bays at Charlottesville and disconnect the other 4 bays -- Scan
point 4 bays at Richmond and disconnect the other 4 bays -- Scan
point 4 bays at Charlottesville and 4 bays at Richmond -- Scan
This should give me a pretty good idea of what signals are possible and the relative strengths.

If certain channels are weak, I have a couple of pre-amps I can try. I could connect one to each bank of 4 bays before the combiner, or I can try just one preamp after the combiner. My down-lead is about 45 feet before it hits a 4-way splitter, so I will almost definitely need some kind of distribution amp to drive the last 30 feet to each TV.

Hopefully, I can get all the channels I want with just this one antenna, pointed in two directions. If not, I may be buying a 4-bowtie antenna to stack vertically with this one.

I can live without channel 12 until the NBC affiliate in Charlottesville (WVIR) moves to channel 2 in about 15 months. Then, I may need to devise a VHF solution to bring in either channel 12 from Richmond or channel 2 from Charlottesville. There will also be a channel 8 coming in Ashland, -26 degrees from Richmond. I'll have plenty of time to figure all that out.

Comments? Suggestions?
Ok $116dollars spent?and still no vhf?
You should have looked at the Winegrud,8200u
For like $30dollars more and had the best all in one
Antenna your hi&low band VHF&then your uhf,good for
70miles on the uhf,and vhf,100+miles with a channel master 7777.
AMP you would have been happy,good luck be safe and look out for power lines.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:01 PM   #4
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Default another possibility

Well, like I said, I don't need VHF until channel 32 disappears and becomes channel 2 in about 15 months.

What I didn't mention is that I have an 15-year-old Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna up there now. You know, one of those things with the elements swept back about 30 degrees? The rear elements are incrementally longer than the front elements. Maybe I'll screw around with stacking it instead of replacing it. Can the UHF elements be removed?

I also have an older model CM 7777 with the separate VHF input. That should make the physical connection simple. I just hope I don't over-amplify the UHF. If I send a VHF/UHF signal into that port, will the UHF portion be filtered out?
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:16 PM   #5
How can anyone watch standard def?
 
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Default TVFool report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Without seeing your TVFool report, or knowing the exact coordinates of your antenna from a PM, all I can say is try your plan and good luck.
TVFool.com failed to include 3 of my stations. They won't allow me to post suggested corrections and they ignore my messages to the admin. Maybe I missed a step, but I think that site is a ghost ship, sailing with nobody at the helm.

What would a TVFool report show you that I haven't already given you?

Would you like to see my home-made spreadsheet grafted together from 4 different information sources?

Is there some reason I shouldn't post my exact coordinates here for the world to see? Is there a danger that somebody will drive to my house with a ladder and steal my new antenna?
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WileyOne View Post
Well, like I said, I don't need VHF until channel 32 disappears and becomes channel 2 in about 15 months.

What I didn't mention is that I have an 15-year-old Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna up there now. You know, one of those things with the elements swept back about 30 degrees? The rear elements are incrementally longer than the front elements. Maybe I'll screw around with stacking it instead of replacing it. Can the UHF elements be removed?
They can be removed, but I advise you not to do it; you might compromise the VHF performance with the mod, not to mention moving the center of gravity for proper support.
Quote:
I also have an older model CM 7777 with the separate VHF input. That should make the physical connection simple. I just hope I don't over-amplify the UHF.
That would be one reason to do an analysis with the benefit of a report.
Quote:
If I send a VHF/UHF signal into that port, will the UHF portion be filtered out?
It should, if the internal switch is set to separate. If you have any doubts, you can block UHF from the RS antenna with a UVSJ, at the cost of about 0.5 dB insertion loss of the VHF signals for the test.

more later after dinner
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 06-04-2018 at 07:52 PM..
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:08 PM   #7
It's the Antenna!
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WileyOne View Post
TVFool.com failed to include 3 of my stations. They won't allow me to post suggested corrections and they ignore my messages to the admin. Maybe I missed a step, but I think that site is a ghost ship, sailing with nobody at the helm.
TVFool is using a defective database to generate reports; it has many errors, caused mainly by many UHF Repack changes. There is a thread there that explains the problem, but the rules of this forum do not allow me to give an active link to another forum; the title of the thread is ***Alert*** New database has serious issue ***. Even if you were able to post and report missing channels, they would not make any corrections because of a staff shortage. You didn't miss a step, the site is indeed on "autopilot." I wrote a poem:

Will TVFool Survive Repack?
By rabbit73

TVFool has helped us a lot;
It showed us what we should have got.
The repack plan has caused it pain;
Will TVFool go down the drain?
Quote:
What would a TVFool report show you that I haven't already given you?
Signal strengths (the difference between the strongest local and the weakest desired signal is the dynamic range), possible adjacent and co-channel interference, terrain profiles between a transmitter and your location (click on callsign in report), and an implied approximate location to check for possible strong local FM transmitter interference. Accurate knowledge of your location would allow me to use other software to draw a better terrain profile and look at signal coverage maps for problem channels, which might be useful. It would also allow me to use another website to run a signal report to check for channels missing in the TVFool report.
Quote:
Would you like to see my home-made spreadsheet grafted together from 4 different information sources?
It might be useful, but I have no desire to force you to divulge any information that you feel would compromise your identity, which is why I mentioned a PM. I have helped a few users on the TVFool forum that way, who hadn't been authorized to post, but could PM.
Quote:
Is there some reason I shouldn't post my exact coordinates here for the world to see? Is there a danger that somebody will drive to my house with a ladder and steal my new antenna?
The risk is small, but I advise against exact coordinates or exact address in a post. A poster should be free to divulge only as much information as he wants. I try to adhere to the same guidelines that TVFool uses in its reports to protect your identity; hide exact address and truncate coordinates to nearest 1/100 degree, which is about 0.6 mi or 1 km. Quite safe for crowded areas, but not as secure for the wide open spaces.

Anyway, even if we don't go any further down this path, you are at the point where you are willing and able to try some experiments to see what will improve your reception.
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__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 06-04-2018 at 07:56 PM..
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:52 PM   #8
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 262
Default

The antenna is old time for a new one that is why I suggest the Winegrud
8200u instead of the DB8,in the long run in 15months you will be done with the ANTENNA thing and sit back and have a cocktails in the A.C. Lol
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Old 06-05-2018, 05:59 AM   #9
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 262
Default Fm broadcasting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
TVFool is using a defective database to generate reports; it has many errors, caused mainly by many UHF Repack changes. There is a thread there that explains the problem, but the rules of this forum do not allow me to give an active link to another forum; the title of the thread is ***Alert*** New database has serious issue ***. Even if you were able to post and report missing channels, they would not make any corrections because of a staff shortage. You didn't miss a step, the site is indeed on "autopilot." I wrote a poem:

Will TVFool Survive Repack?
By rabbit73

TVFool has helped us a lot;
It showed us what we should have got.
The repack plan has caused it pain;
Will TVFool go down the drain?
Signal strengths (the difference between the strongest local and the weakest desired signal is the dynamic range), possible adjacent and co-channel interference, terrain profiles between a transmitter and your location (click on callsign in report), and an implied approximate location to check for possible strong local FM transmitter interference. Accurate knowledge of your location would allow me to use other software to draw a better terrain profile and look at signal coverage maps for problem channels, which might be useful. It would also allow me to use another website to run a signal report to check for channels missing in the TVFool report.
It might be useful, but I have no desire to force you to divulge any information that you feel would compromise your identity, which is why I mentioned a PM. I have helped a few users on the TVFool forum that way, who hadn't been authorized to post, but could PM.
The risk is small, but I advise against exact coordinates or exact address in a post. A poster should be free to divulge only as much information as he wants. I try to adhere to the same guidelines that TVFool uses in its reports to protect your identity; hide exact address and truncate coordinates to nearest 1/100 degree, which is about 0.6 mi or 1 km. Quite safe for crowded areas, but not as secure for the wide open spaces.

Anyway, even if we don't go any further down this path, you are at the point where you are willing and able to try some experiments to see what will improve your reception.
Fm,IT'S time for the fcc too do a repacking of them what do you think?

Last edited by Hdb91xg; 06-05-2018 at 06:18 AM..
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:07 AM   #10
It's the Antenna!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hdb91xg View Post
Fm,IT'S time for the fcc too do a repacking of them what do you think?
I think the FM band should be left alone; no changes needed.

The FCC, under pressure from Congress and the cellular companies, has caused enough problems for broadcasters with the UHF Repack.

Tower workers are being killed trying to change transmitting antennas to the new channels, because of the short deadlines imposed by the FCC.
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__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:37 AM   #11
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

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Default Tower workers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I think the FM band should be left alone; no changes needed.

The FCC, under pressure from Congress and the cellular companies, has caused enough problems for broadcasters with the UHF Repack.

Tower workers are being killed trying to change transmitting antennas to the new channels, because of the short deadlines imposed by the FCC.
That's what happens when you don't think safety first.
Fm is out of control I know?
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:15 AM   #12
How can anyone watch standard def?
 
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Default ways to scan and measure signal strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
The risk is small, but I advise against exact coordinates or exact address in a post. A poster should be free to divulge only as much information as he wants.
By now you have received a PM with the exact coordinates of my mast. I appreciate your offer to analyze my location.
You will notice that TVFool fails to include WWBT, WRLH, WUPV, and maybe others.
I am really only interested in Charlottesville (254/273), Richmond (157/151), and possibly Harrisonburg (311). In a year or so, I might want to take a look at channel 8 in Ashland (125).

I'm not sure how I am going to measure the relative strengths of stations under different antenna configurations when I go down there Friday. My TV is a 55" TCL with Roku from Costco. I'm pretty sure the scan is only going to show me Channel:Yes or Channel:No. For channels that are detected, I may see some pixelation but, otherwise, how can I tell if the signal is somewhat weak? For channels that are not detected, how will I know that a channel is out there but just a little too weak to be detected by the digital tuner?

Last edited by WileyOne; 06-06-2018 at 09:18 AM..
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:46 AM   #13
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

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Go up 50ft with the ANTENNA use RG11,and put the ANTENNA on a 45GAGL.
O wate a minit you have the DB8,right becuse on the 91xg,you can do that
IT'S cool how it works.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:53 AM   #14
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

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Default That's why up 50:FT DB8

Quote:
Originally Posted by WileyOne View Post
By now you have received a PM with the exact coordinates of my mast. I appreciate your offer to analyze my location.
You will notice that TVFool fails to include WWBT, WRLH, WUPV, and maybe others.
I am really only interested in Charlottesville (254/273), Richmond (157/151), and possibly Harrisonburg (311). In a year or so, I might want to take a look at channel 8 in Ashland (125).

I'm not sure how I am going to measure the relative strengths of stations under different antenna configurations when I go down there Friday. My TV is a 55" TCL with Roku from Costco. I'm pretty sure the scan is only going to show me Channel:Yes or Channel:No. For channels that are detected, I may see some pixelation but, otherwise, how can I tell if the signal is somewhat weak? For channels that are not detected, how will I know that a channel is out there but just a little too weak to be detected by the digital tuner?
Well it's up 50:FT with the ANTENNA,but out it on a 45/DGAGL,
And RG11
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Old 06-06-2018, 02:36 PM   #15
It's the Antenna!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WileyOne View Post
By now you have received a PM with the exact coordinates of my mast. I appreciate your offer to analyze my location.
Yes, I have; thank you. I made two replies to the correction, but the second one has some signal report images added. (I clicked the SEND button too soon.)
Quote:
You will notice that TVFool fails to include WWBT, WRLH, WUPV, and maybe others.
Yes, TVFool is using a defective database to generate reports. In my PM, I showed you a report image generated by rabbitears.info that has a more accurate list of channels. I can post it here, but only with your permission.

more after dinner
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