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  • 1 Post By stereocraig

Antenna Recommendation for Strong 2edge Signals

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Old 09-26-2017, 12:44 PM   #1
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Default Antenna Recommendation for Strong 2edge Signals

Hi everyone,

Been a few years but back for more advice.

I am helping a friend in Atlanta figure out his OTA setup over facebook, and ran into something I haven't before. I am used to open terrain with weak signals, he has the inverse. Here is his tvfool:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4bae83b4240

He has extremely strong signal strength, but due to terrain is all 1Edge and 2Edge on the channels we care about which are the major networks at 186-191 degrees. He is located in a bit of a "hole" and is surrounded by thick trees.

He currently has an unknown brand new style "hdtv" marketed leaf/blade type indoor antenna but can't get anything consitantly in the southeast corner of his walkout basement living room (walkout side of the house faces southeast). I recommended he set it outside the window at the southeast corner of the house on a chair to see what happens. Doing so he got FOX and NBC perfectly, but ABC and CBS are breaking up. ABC made sense to me but not CBS. A rooftop/tower is not an option so I am suggesting based on this he put a good outdoor antenna on his second story deck facing south. I was thinking something like this
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HD7694P
to get good enough gain on UHF and VHF, and to avoid a preamp, at a reasonable price. I think it would be overkill on level terrain, but figure we need more help with the trees, etc, but I'm not sure if its a good choice for 2edge signals behind trees though, or if there is a better choice for multipath. He's not real savvy on these things and has other people suggesting things like Mohu, so I want to make him an intelligent, but not an overkill suggestion.

Any suggestions or thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

Last edited by ohazco; 09-28-2017 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 09-26-2017, 04:46 PM   #2
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welcome, ohazco

Your choice of antenna and its location is correct for the signal report, but the trees are the deciding factor. He will just have to try it.

If I could see some photos looking south from the deck, it would help. Even better, if you could give me his address or coordinates in a PM, it would also help. I could then see the trees and the signal lines.

It is not unusual to have different channels in the same direction have different reception, because the signals are scattered by the terrain, and have different frequencies.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 09-26-2017 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:22 PM   #3
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Thanks for the PM. I have looked at the satellite photos of your friend's location and see a lot of trees in the signal path. The reception should improve after the leaves fall. I also see a power line in the signal path and a nearby cell tower.

He will need to experiment with the antenna location.



http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/siting.html
scroll down to trees

A preamp might help; I suggest the Antennas Direct Juice. It has a built-in LTE filter to block cell phone transmitters, but it doesn't have an FM filter.

Whether he has cell phone interference will depend upon the carrier using the nearby tower.

I don't see any strong FM transmitters that would interfere with TV reception.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/4...a/Radar-FM.png
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Trees and UHF4.jpg (183.5 KB, 2 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 09-27-2017 at 07:54 PM..
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:10 AM   #4
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Thanks again Rabbit!! Based on all that, is the directional 7694 still the thing to play around with, or is something like the HDB4X with a wider less tall apperature better? Or should he just put up a cheap little outdoor antenna and take what he gets?

Heres the pic of the yard I PM'ed to Rabbit for others to see.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohazco
Oh, and yes you can post the pics.
OK





When the leaves start to fall, the signals will get through more easily:



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Old 09-28-2017, 01:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Based on all that, is the directional 7694 still the thing to play around with, or is something like the HDB4X with a wider less tall apperature better?
I favor your first choice. The HDB4X is primarily a UHF antenna. It will pick up VHF signals (like 10 and 8) if they are strong enough, but it is better to use a combo antenna that is designed for UHF and VHF.

There is no magic antenna that will "see" through trees, but an antenna with enough gain and a preamp often help.

I like your choice of the 2nd floor deck. A mast can be mounted on the deck, or come up from the ground supported by the deck.



Either location A or B can be used; both clear the corner of the house. The best one will depend upon the location of the trees in the path. Maybe he can cut some branches.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg ohazcoHDFdeck1.JPG (185.9 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg ohazcoHDFdeck2.jpg (78.8 KB, 51 views)
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:16 PM   #7
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It isn't just the trees, there are also hills in the signal path that will scatter the signal:

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File Type: jpg ohazcoHDFp2WSB.JPG (93.5 KB, 50 views)
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:36 PM   #8
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The best setup for trees is to try and clear them by as much as possible, mounting on the roof peak will get you up there, and using a telescoping mast is the next thing to try.

On one job I mounted on a second story roof with a 40 foot telescoping just to clear some pesky trees, but that big of a mast requires the skill of someone who has done it before, it's not a job for someone that hasn't.

On really tall trees a tower has been used for clearance.

BUT you have one other problem, and that's that the signal your looking for is a second edge signal. this means that something BIG is in the way, and the signals are refracting over the top, this could case signal dropouts during the day or night for short to long periods of time.

Not much can be done about those types of signals, some have been lucky some haven't.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:47 PM   #9
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Thanks guys!!! Give it a shot I guess thats all a guy can do. Here I thought I had it hard with my deep fringe... I never realized how hard it can be right there in the city.

Rabitt, what site are you using for all these analyses?
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohazco View Post
Thanks guys!!! Give it a shot I guess thats all a guy can do. Here I thought I had it hard with my deep fringe... I never realized how hard it can be right there in the city.

Rabitt, what site are you using for all these analyses?
I used several different sites for my analysis of this reception problem and added notes using Paint. I have been doing this for about 10 years and have learned different ways to demonstrate a problem. I started experimenting with antennas when I was 8 years old. I'm now 84, and still learning.

Can you tell me which image you mean?
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Last edited by rabbit73; 09-28-2017 at 06:16 PM..
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I used several different sites for my analysis of this reception problem and added notes using Paint. I have been doing this for about 10 years and have learned different ways to demonstrate a problem. I started experimenting with antennas when I was 8 years old. I'm now 84, and still learning.

Can you tell me which image you mean?
The last one in particular, the terrain profile?

Thanks!
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohazco View Post
The last one in particular, the terrain profile?

Thanks!
I use this site:
http://www.heywhatsthat.com/profiler.html

There isn't much in the way of instructions; you have to learn by doing.

You will need the coordinates of the transmitting and receiving antennas.

Don't forget to add the antenna heights for each antenna AGL.

I can walk you through an example if you need it.
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:55 AM   #13
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Antennas with long range work better for this type of situation. You should have an antenna with at least 100+ miles range for high signals quality. Here is a good resource - http://www.reviewwind.com/best-outdo...r-rural-areas/
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemilee View Post
Antennas with long range work better for this type of situation. You should have an antenna with at least 100+ miles range for high signals quality. Here is a good resource - http://www.reviewwind.com/best-outdo...r-rural-areas/
I would never go by a report that has a 150 mile antenna as a best for anything but a scam.
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Old 10-16-2017, 04:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemilee View Post
Antennas with long range work better for this type of situation. You should have an antenna with at least 100+ miles range for high signals quality. Here is a good resource - http://www.reviewwind.com/best-outdo...r-rural-areas/
Except for the name brands on that list and possibly the one that resembles the 91XG, the others are nothing but junk.

Additionally, the review sounds like it was written by a grade school student.

You're better off w/ the detailed advice you'll receive from the experts here, than some vague, rambling review like that one.
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