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Old 08-26-2017, 09:26 PM   #16  
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Quote:
I would need to ground the mast. Could I use a grounding rod for that?
You could, and it is often done, but it isn't according to code which says the rod must be bonded to the house electrical system ground with 6 gauge copper wire (expensive).

Thank you for the new report. You have not specified antenna height. I redid my guess also without height and it matches, so I did it again at 20 feet to match your estimated height:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4eb4e38eabe

I also redid the FM report at 20 feet:
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/9...1/Radar-FM.png
Quote:
Would the FM filter go after the amp or before and does it utilize power pass?

Antenna > Filter > Amp?
Yes, the filter would go between the antenna and the input of the preamp; power pass is not needed.

One antenna system:
HD7698 > FM Filter > preamp > coax > grounding block > power inserter > TV

Try it without the filter first to see if it makes a difference. Sometimes 2 filters in series are needed, but probably not in your case because the FM transmitters are in the other direction.

Two antenna solution:
Code:

4228 >
      \
     UVSJ > Filter > preamp > coax > grounding > power > TV
      /                                block    inserter
2476 >

The UVSJ is AKA UHF/VHF Combiner
FM filter
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...on_filter.html
Juice preamp:
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/JUICE.html

Switching from the 4228HD to the Antennas Direct DB8e would be more expensive, but the DB8e has more gain at the low end of UHF where a lot of channels will be moving because of repack. UHF will be from 14 to 36.

WFTV will move from 39 to 35.
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wftv

Last edited by rabbit73; 08-26-2017 at 10:35 PM..
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Old 08-27-2017, 06:11 AM   #17  
How can anyone watch standard def?
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Where my antenna is located now and where the new one would be located, they are both very close to my electrical panel and meter so grounding it to that shouldn't be difficult.

I think I very much favor a single antenna solution. I don't mind spending a little more money on the antenna this time around since I went slim on it before. The DB8e, would I need a preamp for that as well? Mounting the DB8e looks like it would be a little easier based on size alone. I could probably use the eaves mount I have now or so it would seem.
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:20 AM   #18  
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I think I very much favor a single antenna solution.
That would be the easiest, but it is a very long antenna for more gain.

The main problem with the Orlando signals is the curvature of the earth, but VHF signals can make it more easily than UHF:



You are on the fringe for WESH coverage:



Attached Images
File Type: jpg kbangertHDFp2WESH.JPG (108.4 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg kbangertHDFcovWESH.JPG (66.8 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg kbangertHDFcovWESHcu.JPG (96.7 KB, 66 views)
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:04 PM   #19  
How can anyone watch standard def?
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I'm going to start saving my pennies for the DB8e, preamp and filter. Thanks everyone here for the advice and links on what to buy. I certainly still have a lot to learn!
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:38 PM   #20  
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Just the DB8e alone isn't enough. It is primarily a UHF antenna. You also need the VHF antenna.
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:56 PM   #21  
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If you want a single antenna solution, and wish to receive WESH the Winegard antennas that have been suggested are by far the best choice. At the predicted signal level no one can guarantee reception even when using an antenna with some gain designed for the frequency you wish to receive.
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Last edited by RF Steve; 08-28-2017 at 12:38 AM..
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:27 AM   #22  
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Hello everyone. I am wanting to revisit this topic again as I am still looking for one antenna that will do everything I need. I have recently started looking at the Winegard HD8200U antenna with Preamp. I am not against the deep fringe antenna and a combiner if that is still the best solution. I asked the question close to 2 years ago so maybe another antenna is available that wasn't before. You all here are definitely more in the know than I am.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...UV7X6VGPM53A7Q

My cheap "150 mile" is still up and running, two years now in the heat and weather of Florida but I am still unable to get NBC. What I cannot explain is that the WESH signal on channel 2 (WPBT I think) seems to be overpowered now by a PBS station on that same channel. Keep in mind I am not facing my antenna to the south. It faces toward the Orlando/Bithlo area.

Has anyone used or tested the Antop "Big Boy" series? There is an NBC affiliate in both Palm Beach and Orlando. I guess my thinking is that with a multidirectional solution, I would stand two chances at getting one NBC affiliate.

https://www.amazon.com/ANTOP-Amplifi...s%2C144&sr=1-9
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:56 AM   #23  
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Originally Posted by kbangert View Post
Hello everyone. I am wanting to revisit this topic again as I am still looking for one antenna that will do everything I need. I have recently started looking at the Winegard HD8200U antenna with Preamp.
Hello, Kurt.

The 8200 is a very wide antenna because it has elements for VHF-Low channels 2-6. I don't see any VHF-Low channels on your list. I suggest the Winegard HD7698P and a preamp.
Quote:
My cheap "150 mile" is still up and running, two years now in the heat and weather of Florida but I am still unable to get NBC. What I cannot explain is that the WESH signal on channel 2 (WPBT I think) seems to be overpowered now by a PBS station on that same channel.
WPBT in Miami is on real channel 29, it will not cause co-channel interference to WESH.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WPBT

WESH is on real channel 11, virtual channel 2.1. It is the real channel number (also called physical channel or RF channel) that determines what antenna is needed.

VHF-Low, real channels 2-6
VHF-High, real channels 7-13
UHF, real channels 14-51 (soon to be 14-36 because of Repack by the FCC)

The virtual channel number (like 5.1 or 5-1) is a holdover from the analog TV days to maintain the identity of the station, and is what the TV displays. By convention, the virtual channel number is given in the decimal form to keep it from being confused with the real channel number.
Quote:
Has anyone used or tested the Antop "Big Boy" series? There is an NBC affiliate in both Palm Beach and Orlando. I guess my thinking is that with a multidirectional solution, I would stand two chances at getting one NBC affiliate.
That antenna only has a simple dipole for VHF-High channel 11; not enough gain for WESH.

Here is a report from rabbitears.info that should have a more accurate list of channels:



This shows channel changes for Orlando, indicated by the arrows:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WFTV

This is the Repack Plan for Orlando:
https://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...=&lss=&status=

Most of the changes will be during Phase 7, 10/19/2019 to 1/17/2020
https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-in...ition-schedule

You do have some strong local FM transmitters only 2.7 miles away that might cause interference to the reception of WESH:
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/9...1/Radar-FM.png

They are coming from the SE, but your antenna will be aimed NW. An FM filter might be needed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg kbangertHDFreportRE.jpg (106.5 KB, 37 views)

Last edited by rabbit73; 07-11-2019 at 09:53 AM..
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:52 AM   #24  
How can anyone watch standard def?
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Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Hello, Kurt.

The 8200 is a very wide antenna because it has elements for VHF-Low channels 2-6. I don't see any VHF-Low channels on your list. I suggest the Winegard HD7698P and a preamp.

WPBT in Miami is on real channel 29, it will not cause co-channel interference to WESH.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WPBT

WESH is on real channel 11, virtual channel 2.1. It is the real channel number (also called physical channel or RF channel) that determines what antenna is needed.

VHF-Low, real channels 2-6
VHF-High, real channels 7-13
UHF, real channels 14-51 (soon to be 14-36 because of Repack by the FCC)

The virtual channel number (like 5.1 or 5-1) is a holdover from the analog TV days to maintain the identity of the station, and is what the TV displays. By convention, the virtual channel number is given in the decimal form to keep it from being confused with the real channel number.
That antenna only has a simple dipole for VHF-High channel 11; not enough gain for WESH.

Here is a report from rabbitears.info that should have a more accurate list of channels:



This shows channel changes for Orlando, indicated by the arrows:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WFTV

This is the Repack Plan for Orlando:
https://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...=&lss=&status=

Most of the changes will be during Phase 7, 10/19/2019 to 1/17/2020
https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-in...ition-schedule

You do have some strong local FM transmitters only 2.7 miles away that might cause interference to the reception of WESH:
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/9...1/Radar-FM.png

They are coming from the SE, but your antenna will be aimed NW. An FM filter might be needed.
You guys are the best here, bar none.

Rabbit, one more question, are you sure on the WESH interference even if the display channels are the same? If I picked up both channels, would that mean would scan and receive two different 2.1 and 2.2 stations on my TV?

Also, can you link me to a solid FM filter?

Last edited by kbangert; 07-11-2019 at 11:10 AM..
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:28 PM   #25  
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Originally Posted by kbangert View Post
Rabbit, one more question, are you sure on the WESH interference even if the display channels are the same? If I picked up both channels, would that mean would scan and receive two different 2.1 and 2.2 stations on my TV?
Good question. No, I'm not sure when the virtual channel numbers are the same. It depends upon the particular TV that you have. Some can sort it out, some can't. It sometimes works if you enter the real channel number. It helps that your antenna will be aimed at WESH and away from WPBT.
2‑1 (29) WPBT PBS MIAMI FL 125.9mi 172 25.05 dBuV Bad Signal Margin -11.97 dB
It's beyond the curvature of the earth, 125.9 mi away. Shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
Also, can you link me to a solid FM filter?
They are getting hard to find; Radio Shack, MCM, and Antennas Direct stopped selling them. I suggest using a HLSJ, Line and High ports.
https://www.amazon.com/SEPARATOR-JOI.../dp/B01LYNXRXH

see also eBay for FM trap, HLSJ, and FM fiter

Some people are using the FM filter for RTL-SDR. It's for 50 ohms and requires adapters for SMA to F. I haven't tested it.
https://www.amazon.com/Broadcast-FM-.../dp/B01LE9LRPM

Some preamps have an FM trap built in.

Last edited by rabbit73; 07-11-2019 at 06:02 PM..
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Old 07-12-2019, 05:39 AM   #26  
How can anyone watch standard def?
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Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Good question. No, I'm not sure when the virtual channel numbers are the same. It depends upon the particular TV that you have. Some can sort it out, some can't. It sometimes works if you enter the real channel number. It helps that your antenna will be aimed at WESH and away from WPBT.
2‑1 (29) WPBT PBS MIAMI FL 125.9mi 172 25.05 dBuV Bad Signal Margin -11.97 dB
It's beyond the curvature of the earth, 125.9 mi away. Shouldn't be a problem.
When this first starting happening and I would get WESH in the early morning, the Sharp TV in my spare bedroom would handle it that way. My Samsung doesn't do that. Due to how far I am away from that broadcast antenna, that is also why I said picking it up was something I cannot explain. It's definitely WPBT as I get the WURH and WXEL stations as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by They are getting hard to find; Radio Shack, MCM, and Antennas Direct stopped selling them. I suggest using a HLSJ, Line and High ports.
[URL="https://www.amazon.com/SEPARATOR-JOINER-HIGH-FREQUENCY-CABLETRONIX/dp/B01LYNXRXH"
https://www.amazon.com/SEPARATOR-JOINER-HIGH-FREQUENCY-CABLETRONIX/dp/B01LYNXRXH[/URL]

see also eBay for FM trap, HLSJ, and FM fiter

Some people are using the FM filter for RTL-SDR. It's for 50 ohms and requires adapters for SMA to F. I haven't tested it.
https://www.amazon.com/Broadcast-FM-.../dp/B01LE9LRPM

Some preamps have an FM trap built in.
I saw that you linked me to the Antenna's Direct page earlier in the thread but that page didn't work. Figured they stopped them. The RTL-SDR filter clearly says on the Amazon page that if you are a TV installer, not to use it.

"TV installers this is probably not the right product for you. TV installers please read the description carefully to avoid disappointment. "

I was going to stick with a Winegard PreAmp if I get the antenna to keep it all uniform. Is there a PreAmp with FM Filter you'd recommend? I am going to do some looking myself as well.
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:50 AM   #27  
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Also, can you give me your thoughts on the Clearstream C5? Is this possibly another option for me with a Preamp? Since I have a setup already, I would like to stick with a smaller footprint if possible.

https://store.antennasdirect.com/C5-...V-antenna.html
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:10 PM   #28  
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Originally Posted by kbangert View Post
Due to how far I am away from that broadcast antenna, that is also why I said picking it up was something I cannot explain. It's definitely WPBT as I get the WURH and WXEL stations as well.
WURH AND WXEL are no longer transmitting. They are now guests on the WPBT transmitter.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WURH

You are receiving WPBT because of Tropospheric Propagation, which is seasonal.
Quote:
I saw that you linked me to the Antenna's Direct page earlier in the thread but that page didn't work. Figured they stopped them.
That is true, unfortunately. ADTech, who works for Antennas Direct and gives reception advice on 3 other forums, said his boss decided to stop selling the FM filters because they weren't making a profit on them. I said "Raise the price to make a profit, they are needed." It's not gonna happen.
Quote:
The RTL-SDR filter clearly says on the Amazon page that if you are a TV installer, not to use it.

"TV installers this is probably not the right product for you. TV installers please read the description carefully to avoid disappointment."
Yes, they are covering themselves against complaints in bad reviews.
https://www.amazon.com/Broadcast-FM-...-search&sr=8-3

If you read further, you will see adapters mentioned:
Quote:
TV installers please read and pay very close attention to the following: This is probably not the right product for you. These filters are designed for software defined radio and radio scanner users. The filter uses SMA connectors. SMA connectors are very common in the professional RF world, but are NOT commonly used in home TV installations. TV installs normally use F-TYPE or PAL connectors. So this filter will not fit onto F-TYPE or PAL connectors which are common in the TV world without the use of an adapter, which is not supplied.
Quote:
I was going to stick with a Winegard PreAmp if I get the antenna to keep it all uniform. Is there a PreAmp with FM Filter you'd recommend? I am going to do some looking myself as well.
The Winegard LNA200 has an FM filter, but the shielding of the enclosure is lacking to reject strong local interference. The Channel Master preamps have an FM filter. I think you might need an external FM filter for its greater rejection, but try the FM filter in a preamp first.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Winegard LNA200_Schematic_2.jpg (95.5 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Winegard LNA-200 Board_1.jpg (241.2 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by rabbit73; 07-12-2019 at 12:16 PM..
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:19 PM   #29  
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Originally Posted by kbangert View Post
Also, can you give me your thoughts on the Clearstream C5? Is this possibly another option for me with a Preamp? Since I have a setup already, I would like to stick with a smaller footprint if possible.

https://store.antennasdirect.com/C5-...V-antenna.html
The C5 is designed primarily for VHF-High channels 7-13. You need an antenna that also covers UHF.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:47 PM   #30  
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The C5 is designed primarily for VHF-High channels 7-13. You need an antenna that also covers UHF.
This would work better with a combiner and my current UHF antenna. It says so in the documentation.

Is the HD Stacker Antenna something that would work? I don't see any specific VHF-High specs for it. Also, and I swear this is the last question, how would wiring two antennas work that are both amplified? That is something I am still looking at if I combine signals.

Last edited by kbangert; 07-12-2019 at 01:48 PM..
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