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Adding 110Volt to Antenna location

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Old 07-30-2017, 07:41 AM   #1
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Default Adding 110Volt to Antenna location

Recently I had a post on trying to get an improved signal on a 250' run of standard coax. I have exhausted the attempt of using all the normal amplifiers and none of them have enough amps to run the 250'.
My antenna is on a hill so that the 8 bay can align with stations within the Evansville and surrounding areas. All my signals are over 45 miles. I've ran the TV Fool and understand the signal strength. I use the Channelmaster 7777HD inside my house at current and it drastically improves my signal. When I portably run it at the tower it really improves signal as it can get proper power. My question would be if I ran 110v to the antenna from a storm shelter near by, would I run the risk of drawing lightning damage downline to the shelter and into my house panel. I can get 110 underground cable at a nominal cost and can easily add to the shelter. I suppose I'll need a dry box by the antenna to store the amplifier as it appears it doesn't really have a dry electrical plug in connector. I don't see this as an obstacle but I really question the risk of the 110 at the tower. Any imput on this would be appreciated. Tks Chuck at Hartford, Ky.
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Old 07-30-2017, 09:27 AM   #2
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Hello again, Chuck

This is now your third thread on your reception problem. For others trying to help you, this was your first thread:
Channelmaster 7777hd 06-15-2017
http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hd...er-7777hd.html

this was your second thread:
Channelmaster 7777hd 06-20-2017
http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hd...er-7777hd.html

and, since you never gave us an exact address signal report for your location, here is a report for Hartford, KY so that others who might want to help can see what your signals look like:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a47065b084b2
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Last edited by rabbit73; 07-30-2017 at 05:24 PM..
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Old 07-30-2017, 09:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinery-man View Post
Recently I had a post on trying to get an improved signal on a 250' run of standard coax. I have exhausted the attempt of using all the normal amplifiers and none of them have enough amps to run the 250'.
I was curious as to why your CM7777HD would not work with 250 ft of coax, so I bought a CM7777HD amp on sale for half price. You didn't get the LED on the amp to stay ON at 250 ft, but on page two of your second thread, you can see that I got it to work with 300 ft of coax:
http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hd...-7777hd-2.html
post #23
http://www.highdefforum.com/1410662-post23.html

I also got the 2nd generation 7777 with one antenna input to work with 300 feet of coax.
post #27
http://www.highdefforum.com/1411096-post27.html

So, I concluded that there must be something wrong with your coax.
Quote:
I can get 110 underground cable at a nominal cost and can easily add to the shelter. I suppose I'll need a dry box by the antenna to store the amplifier as it appears it doesn't really have a dry electrical plug in connector. I don't see this as an obstacle but I really question the risk of the 110 at the tower. Any imput on this would be appreciated.
I think that would work, but lightning is unpredictable; it goes where it wants to go.

You would only have 110 to the amp power supply. From the power supply to the amp, it would be just 5VDC.

I think you should be concerned about lightning; the flash density is medium-high in your area.



You might find this useful:
Antenna System Bonding and Grounding Requirements in the USA
http://www.reeve.com/Documents/Artic...ents_Reeve.pdf
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File Type: jpg machinery-manHDFlightningHartfordKYrev.jpg (133.8 KB, 47 views)
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:34 AM   #4
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I would use a Channel Master CM3410, you would have to run a second coax for the power but it has a 12 volt power supply.

https://www.channelmaster.com/Antenn..._p/cm-3410.htm

If you run 110VAC out to the tower I would put it inside conduit, this would protect the wires better, and for any lighting prone area a 75 ohm inline Gas Discharge device on the antenna coax should be the first thing inline and well grounded.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=212FF75F225-31
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:02 PM   #5
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Rabbit: Tks for your response....please be advised, I'm a little new to this site and I apologize if my posting weren't properly orchestrated.
Anyway...it finally cooled some here in Kentucky and I did some more tests today...my results were that with powered amp at antenna my weaker stations produced green on my Tivo measuring device. This was with the red light on. On green the weakest station would not respond. I did note increased gain on all the others. Now having said that, I reviewed your notes and see that you did get results with the wiring. I still have difficulty concluding that my coax is bad as it is in piping all the way down the hill and my signal is excellent. I suppose it would be a chance with new wiring it would come in, however I wondered if it was worth spending this much money for a test or rather spend the money and put the 110 at the base of the tower. I just pulled the cover plate off my inspection box at the house which is downhill run of the piping and it is clear as a bone. I suppose at the tower I could run a ground to my grounding rod to assist in lightning grounding. I'd sure like the extra improvement in signal strength so its a matter of expenditures I suppose....wanted to follow up to your comments and appreciate your help....here's some pics of my test....tks Chuck
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File Type: jpg 100_1749.jpg (62.4 KB, 6 views)
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:18 PM   #6
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Not saying this is the case, but if the coax is in pipe and it was pulled in, it could be damaged as far as DC current resistance is concerned, but still work fine for the RF. I've seen cases where the center conductor was broke and the stronger signal would "jump the gap" over the break.
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:02 PM   #7
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Yes, that is correct. I tried to tell him that in a previous thread. It seems the most logical explanation of why he can use his preamp at the TV, but its LED will not light when it is near the antenna.

I did suggest to him that he should measure the voltage to the preamp when it is connected near the antenna, which would show if it was getting the required voltage to operate and light the LED. That would be the least expensive test only requiring a T-adapter and an inexpensive VOM.

The next test, which would cost a little more, would be to run a new length of coax on the ground from the TV to the tower.

Both of those tests are a lot easier and less expensive than pulling a new coax through his PVC or running 110V underground, and even they could fail if not done properly.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 07-30-2017 at 05:15 PM..
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinery-man View Post
.....here's some pics of my test....tks Chuck
Thanks for the photos.



That looks promising, it's WTSN-LD a 2Edge signal on real channel 20 with a NM of -5.9 dB.



I don't know what that is, please tell me, Chuck.
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File Type: jpg machinery-manHDFtest2s.jpg (94.3 KB, 51 views)
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:55 PM   #9
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Rabbit: I get your drift but no t adapter....will a splitter also work....so If I'm not getting the necessary voltage....what would you suggest...I really don't think it's the coax....pulling that line would be a b..... and also like you said the new wiring would be a pain also....I've tried all the boosters and the new channelmasters are junk also....so I'm stuck....I'm wondering now if I powered another amp inside the house if this would get even more gain...I'm pretty close now....unless I could talk the station to up its power.....ha ha
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:01 PM   #10
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This is the amp being power by a battery pack to an inverter where I can plug the 110 in at the tower....this is when I get the full signal...I think I'm loosing the necessary mili amp to the unit....I'm getting voltage up the line as I've checked that....I was very very careful with the coax when I put it in and it doesn't show a trace of water....I might could intersect the downlead and go over to my storm cellar for power if I could get some type adapter for 7777hd...like the old units....I wouldn't have to run but about 25' and believe I could work enough wire but I don't know how I'd fix it in the ground....if I just had enough voltage up there....
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
This is the amp being power by a battery pack to an inverter where I can plug the 110 in at the tower....
Oh, OK; it's the inverter powering the amp. You took the photo so close, I can't see what is connected to what. It looks like the back of one of those "150-mile" antennas.
Quote:
pulling that line would be a b.....
yes
Quote:
new wiring would be a pain also....
yes
Quote:
I'm wondering now if I powered another amp inside the house if this would get even more gain...
That would not be the best way because it would just amplify the signals and the noise and add the noise of the second amp, making you worse off. It would also probably overload your TiVo tuner.
Quote:
what would you suggest...
I suggest you measure the voltage to the amp with the amp connected near the antenna and powered through the 250ft coax from the power inserter in the house.
Quote:
I really don't think it's the coax....
You don't know that for sure until you measure the voltage to the amp when it is connected near the antenna and powered through the 250ft coax from the power inserter inside the house.
Quote:
I get your drift but no t adapter....will a splitter also work....
No, a splitter will not work, you need a T-adapter and a VOM. Either you buy them or pay somebody to make the measurement for you. Do you have a tech friend with a meter?

If you don't make the test, you are just shooting in the dark trying other things not knowing if your coax is good enough to carry the DC current from the power inserter inside up to the 7777HD preamp near the antenna. Even if you ran a new length of coax on the ground from inside to the tower, you would still have to make that measurement of the voltage to the preamp when it is connected.
Quote:
I'm getting voltage up the line as I've checked that....
That doesn't count unless the preamp is connected.

You need the T-adapter to measure the voltage between the center conductor of the coax and the shield near the preamp when it is connected to the end of the 250ft coax at the tower. How else can you get to the center conductor when it is conneted to the 7777HD?

power inserter inside > 250' coax > T-adapter > short coax > 7777HD > antenna

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It would be something like this which was for the RCA preamp, but would measure about 5V for the 7777HD. This meter has a 2.5V range and a 50V range, so I had to use the 50V range.


Quote:
unless I could talk the station to up its power.....ha ha
HA HA; good one, Chuck.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 07-30-2017 at 07:31 PM..
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:09 PM   #12
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thank you very much.....Chuck
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Old 07-31-2017, 05:52 AM   #13
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Rabbit: I reviewed your posts again....so here is my plan...I order a couple of the ts and I will check the voltage to the amp at the antenna....I find it interesting to know exactly what my voltage will read....I'll check also send you some pics of the test...your test showed it worked with 4.051 volts...I'm now not any wear for the worst....I wish I had about 300' of coax I could borrow...don't need to buy and have all that laying around....the voltage test I assume what ever the reading except 0 would show if my cable is good or bad....it is a pleasure to have you helping.....I've got good already just trying to get a little better....tks
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Old 07-31-2017, 07:57 AM   #14
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That voltage test is the best thing to do to check the cable under load. Another, although not as thorough, would be to short the tv end center conductor to the shield then measure the ohms between the center conductor to the shield at the antenna end. If your ohm meter goes down low enough it may give you some idea of the total resistance in the dc circuit. If it reads open it would indicate a broken center conductor.
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Old 07-31-2017, 09:26 AM   #15
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Rbinch: I took your advise...made a short out cable and inserted at the antenna end and then ran a meter test at the tv end....you can see the results....the results were something a little less than a complete short.....I suppose this may be normal resistance in the wire....I'm going to get the inserter and run a power test as soon as I receive it. Any comments appreciated....tks Chuck
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