High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

Local HDTV Info and Reception Learn about your local HDTV stations, availability, reception issues, OTA antennas and any other local issues.

tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

Closed Thread
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-22-2005, 01:49 PM   #1  
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
rbinck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 17,002
Default tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

Orignally posted by tigerbangs and has been needed repeatedly, so I'm reposting to have a convienent spot for this great suggestion.

tigerbangs
Antenna Maven

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Hartford, CT and Ottawa, ON
Age: 50
Posts: 253



OK, once again, for clarity: the deep-fringe perscription is as follows,

1 Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna
1 Wade-Delhi VIP-306 VHF antenna
1 Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp
1 Channel Master 9521a rotator
30'+ antenna height from the ground

install carefully, avoid bodily injury

scan your digital tuner.

sit back and enjoy all-channel analog and digital reception

Do NOT substitute!
__________________
Quando Omni Flunkis Mortati: When in Doubt, Play Dead

Last edited by rbinck; 11-22-2005 at 02:01 PM..
rbinck is offline  
Old 12-02-2005, 04:02 PM   #2  
Antenna Maven
 
tigerbangs's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Springfield, MA
Age: 65
Posts: 2,212
Default Good reply from another thread

Originally posted as a reply to another poster. Good info.
OK, lets reconsider ALL of your purchases for a moment: The Winegard HD4053 is in no way in the same league as the Wade-Delhi VIP-306 or VIP-307 in terms of signal pulling ability or construction quality. The Winegard HD9095 and PR9032 are both yagi-based UHF antennas which offer a lot of gain, but limited signal gathering ability in a deep-fringe situation. I promise you that you will not see what you are looking for using the Winegard yagi-style UHF antennas: I have replaced several of them in the last year with Channel Master 4228 8-bay UHF antennas with FAR better results. I know that the Cape has always been a problem for TV reception, as you are at least 50 miles from Providence and about 65 miles from Boston. The other problem that the Cape presents to an antenna installation is a LOT of salt air! There are a few trick that you can use to keep the system from failing early due to corrision.

User the deep-fringe perscription listed in the sticky memo on the top of the thread page: don't deviate from it: it WORKS, and it has been proven time and time again! The real advantage of using the Channel Master Titan 7777 is it's dual inputs, eliminating the need for an external antenna joiner and the associated losses and additional connections. Don't make the mistake that most people make when selecting a deep-fringe UHF antenna: More gain is NOT the solution to recepton at great distances: capture area is the answer, and it is capture area where the 4228 excels. UHF signals scatter significantly beyond distances of 30-35 miles: moving the antenna even 6" can often make the difference between seeing a signal, and not seeing it. The larger the capture area of the antenna, the better it's chances of seeing a fringe-area signal. Differences of 1 or 2 DB of gain are meaningless when looking for UHF signals at distances of 35+ miles. We can always amplify a weak signal, but if the signal doesn't appear at the receiviing elements of the antenna, there is nothing to amplify! You didn't mention whether you are looking for digital or analog signals, or both, but in any event, the formula for success is the same.

Since you are in a very high-corrision area, don't even consider using any twin-lead cable ANYWHERE in the system: the salt air will destroy it in as little as 18 months: good quality 75 ohm RG-6 coax cable will last 10 years in the same conditions. The secret to keeping coax cable efficient is to seal you coaxial cable F connectors and your antenna to cable connections with a sealant. I have used clear spray Krylon on antenna connections for almost 30 years with excellent results. I also use silicone tape, which is available from Radio Shack, to seal all of the exterior cable "F" fittings. When wrapped tightly to the 'F" fitting, it makes a great protective sealer that keeps out moisture and corrosion.

Boston and Providence TV are probable for you in your location, but consider your antenna and installation choices carefully.

Last edited by rbinck; 12-02-2005 at 05:36 PM.. Reason: Explanation of post
tigerbangs is offline  
Old 12-15-2005, 03:02 PM   #3  
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
Default CM4228 Not working out!

Ok Tigerbangs lend me your ear and expertise. I had an old R. Shack VU75 which I mounted a longer tailpiece on the UHF section years ago. It was 33 feet off the ground and I only had a 10DB amp mounted at the back of the set. I was able to lock in two stations late at night that I'd love to get on a more regular basis. Ch 13 WSYX at about 77 miles and Ch 46 at about 61 miles. So I ordered the 4228 put it up in the cold and snow yesterday and now I get no signal at all on either of the two distant stations! It doesn't even try to get a signal...let alone lock one in. I know adding a 7777 preamp might be an answer ??? but if I'm getting no signal at all now with the 4228, is the amp a waste of money? The 4228 I found to be very directional and it does improve the Cincinnati and Dayton stations which were already at 80% percent plus . I could get them with a pair of rabbit ears haha. So an 4228 for those stations is overkill. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Zip here is 45122
blindowl is offline  
Old 12-18-2005, 06:32 PM   #4  
Antenna Maven
 
tigerbangs's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Springfield, MA
Age: 65
Posts: 2,212
Default

Please see your private reply...
tigerbangs is offline  
Old 01-23-2006, 12:12 PM   #5  
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2
Default

Here's a scenario for input:
I am in Spanaway Washington, trying to recieve uhf 38, 39, 48 from seattle stations, 40 miles away (relatively flat, rolling hills close to antenna height, plus 60' high evergreen trees 500 feet from antenna) and uhf 18 (closer at 30 degrees off). I have a CM 4221 roof mounted and CM uhf/vhf preamp and get 18 at 85% with my Dish 811, 39 at 60% (unreliable), and 38, 48 at 49% (not useable). I recently bought a PR-8800 to increase gain for the seattle stations, but it gave me similar results as the smaller CM 4221, so I put the CM4221 back up. Is there a way to gang the two antennas together and improve the gain, or should I start all over with a CM 4228 and throw away the PR-8800?
CRAIGV is offline  
Old 01-23-2006, 01:25 PM   #6  
Antenna Maven
 
tigerbangs's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Springfield, MA
Age: 65
Posts: 2,212
Default

At 40 miles from the signals, you really need a 4228 and as much altitude as you can muster. Additionally, you really should have a rotator, as some of your Seattle stations lie far enough apart, (like KCPQ-DT FOX) that you won't get it with a 4228 without reaiming. Also, if you are using a Radio Shack, or other high-noise preamp, you should replace it with a good Channel Master Titan series, as the Radio Shack amps will swallow some weak stations and obscure them with their oen inherent noise.
tigerbangs is offline  
Old 01-23-2006, 02:49 PM   #7  
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2
Default

OK, I ordered the CM 4228. I have a CM Spartan 0064DSB preamp which has a noise rating of 2.2 db, so I will try it with the CM 4228. I will hold off on the rotator to see if Fox will come in with the antenna pointed at Seattle. If I am reading the tech data right, it will pick up maybe 6-7 db for channel 18 at 30 degrees off.
CRAIGV is offline  
Old 01-30-2006, 11:28 PM   #8  
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colchester, Ct
Posts: 2
Default

Hi tigerbangs. Nice to talk to a local guy that can offer some advice. I'm in Colchester, Ct. I'm doing well with a 4 bay bowtie for WFSB-DT, WVIT-DT, WTIC-DT and Norwich CPTV (off the back of the antenna). All high sig strength on my SIR-T451. I wanted to stay UHF for all stations but I can't get anything from WGGB. What do you think about an 8 bay for a try? I've tried WTNH with several VHFs with no luck. I am going to try a VIP-305 for the super bowl but at 10' long I don't want to deal with a permanent install with that monster. Also WGGB seems to have permitting going for higher power? WTNH is a measly 20kW VHF.
Thanks!
RobG is offline  
Old 01-31-2006, 12:07 AM   #9  
Antenna Maven
 
tigerbangs's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Springfield, MA
Age: 65
Posts: 2,212
Default

Rob, unless you are in a hollow, you should be able to pick up WTNH-DT without a problem. You don't need a full-VHF antenna for it, either, just pick up a channel 10 yagi from Signal (now Cumberland)Electronics in West Hartford. You should probably also pick up a preamp like a Channel Master Titan 7777, which will allow you to connect the separate VHF antenna to your 4221. That combination should get you WTNH-DT without a problem. I think the real trick here is the preamp: you may even see WGGB channel 40.1 from it, but don't give up on WTNH-DT: they have Dolby Digital 5.1: something that WGGB-DT doesn't have.

However, if I lived in Colchester (my stepson does) I would pick up the VIP-306 and a rotator, and also the Titan 7777 preamp, because you are missing WTXX-DT on channel 12, WWLP-DT on Channel 11 as well as WTNH-DT on channel 10. WE really need our VHF antennas here in CT for HDTV!
tigerbangs is offline  
Old 02-02-2006, 07:53 PM   #10  
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colchester, Ct
Posts: 2
Default

tigerbangs, just thought you'd like to know I'm doing pretty well with a VIP-305 WTNH-DT. I know you recomended a 306 but I already had the 305 on order when you posted back. Anyway I'm getting about 60-70% sig strength w/o an amp. Probably not enought head room for bad weather or when the foliage comes back but it's something I can work with. I'll be getting a 7777 if I decide this is a permanent set-up. I'm curious about the CM-4228. I found some plots of the gain and it does do pretty well at channel 10. I may get one for better headroom on UHF anyway so I'm going to play with getting WTNH-DT on it. Thanks for the advice.
Rob
RobG is offline  
Old 02-16-2006, 07:01 PM   #11  
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2
Default

First, I would like to thank everyone here who helped me get up and running. This includes those that posted advice and everyone that posted questions that I had not thought of yet.

35 miles north of Atlanta in Acworth/Woodstock 30102. There is at least 100' of hill that is not helping the situation.

I had an old massive Radio Shack Yagi and Radio Shack amp that was left over from years ago. I wasn't picking up anything well.

I added the CM7777 amp and most of the channels were coming in great. Except for Channel 2 (39 UHF). Then added the CM 4228 UHF antenna and channel 2 started coming in great.

Surprisingly, 17, 36, and 46 were GONE! Disconnecting the VHF antenna fixed this and 11-1 (10 VHF) is still perfect.

Forgive me, but the antenna is in the attic.

For sale: 1 massive Radio Shack Yagi antenna!
Dilbert186 is offline  
Old 05-20-2006, 07:37 PM   #12  
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5
Default Any Ideas

I live in Henniker NH 03242 . I live Aprox 86 miles from the Museum Of Science in Boston MA . Would this List you posted work at that Distance or would you suggest maybe a larger Antenna setup ?? Thx


Mittsubishi DLP
D* HD10 Receiver
No other Antennas other then my Dish
BlarniStoan is offline  
Old 05-20-2006, 08:55 PM   #13  
Antenna Maven
 
tigerbangs's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Springfield, MA
Age: 65
Posts: 2,212
Default

I wouldn't promise you reliable reception from Boston in your location unless you had a LOT of elevation, like being high up on the side of a mountain that faces Boston. I would expect that you can probably get WMUR-DT from Manchester, and WNNE-DT from Hanover, NH, but as for FOX, CBS and WB, I have to tell you that I wouldn't get too hopeful
tigerbangs is offline  
Old 06-18-2006, 01:22 PM   #14  
How can anyone watch standard def?
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 24
Default Novice needs help?

Hi,
I am in Calif. between SF and Sacramento. I have D* HR10-250 and CM 3020 for OTA HD locals (Sacramento area) mounted on roof with a 10' mast on a signal story house. Between 25 & 35 miles from towers. There are a few tress within 300 yards and rolling hills around the area. I pick up most channels with very good signal strength of 92+ except ABC's KXTV 10-1. The signal one day will be 89-93 with great picture. Then 25-40 the next day and unwatchable! I have turned the antenna every way possible with no success other than I have described. I can not find anyone in the area who installs outdoor antennas or who can give advice to this novice on what to do. Any suggestions on what is needed or recommendations on a professional in my area?
Thanks.
Steff3 is offline  
Old 06-18-2006, 02:01 PM   #15  
Antennas by Committee
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Clay, New York
Posts: 1,564
Default

Zipcode please.
Rick0725 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


to tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Go to the Deep Fringe than 30 more miles, thats where I live Small Engine Local HDTV Info and Reception 14 04-11-2009 11:14 AM
Antenna Help Deep Fringe Canadian Border Lake seanconn Local HDTV Info and Reception 37 12-08-2008 03:53 PM
strange hdtv reception gaantenna Local HDTV Info and Reception 6 12-06-2008 06:27 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands