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tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

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Old 10-27-2006, 05:01 PM   #91  
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to lessen the load on the rotor you can install an antennas direct 91-xg as an alternative in place of the cm4228. That is what I did at my home a few weeks ago.

I am using my old winegard hd8200p for vhf and the 91xg for uhf with amplification. I am very happy with the uhf performance of the 91xg.

The vhf performance of the cm3671 is ok but the vip306 may perform better.

if you are concerned about the rotor (the cm9521A is not my cup of tea) you can order an alliance u-110 rotor and "clunk - clunk" control box and thrust bearing from here. They have alittle more muscle and will last forever. I have used one for about 20 years.

http://www.rotorservice.com/prod1%20rotor%20sales.htm

enclosed is a picture of my current install to illustrate.

You are not really considered fringe (after looking at the antennaweb results). if these figures are close to your reception parameters, the cm 3671 should be plenty and the cm7777 preamp a risk at overload because of the stations in yellow. A winegard hdp269 would be better actually.

* yellow - uhf WMYV-DT 48.1 MNT GREENSBORO NC 201° 10.7 33
* yellow - uhf WFMY-DT 2.1 CBS GREENSBORO NC 206° 10.9 51
* yellow - uhf WXLV-DT 45.1 ABC WINSTON-SALEM NC 201° 10.7 29
* yellow - uhf WXII-DT 12.1 NBC WINSTON-SALEM NC 314° 41.3 31
* yellow - uhf WGPX-DT 16.1 i BURLINGTON NC 31° 17.2 14
* red - uhf WUNL-DT 26.1 PBS WINSTON-SALEM NC 314° 41.3 32
* red - uhf WCWG-DT 20.1 CW LEXINGTON NC 201° 10.8 19
* red - uhf WLXI-DT 61.1 TBN GREENSBORO NC 201° 10.8 43
* red - uhf WGHP-DT 8.1 FOX HIGH POINT NC 202° 14.7 35
* red - uhf WUNC-DT 4.1 PBS CHAPEL HILL NC 115° 35.7 59

fringe would be more like all blue and violet.
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Last edited by Rick0725; 10-27-2006 at 05:16 PM..
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:44 AM   #92  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcgst
I tried find these specs at the Wade website, but couldn't find them.
http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/VIP...20Antennas.pdf

The VIP-307 has 1 db more gain that the VIP-306on VHF high band. The VHF Low band gain is identical.
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:57 AM   #93  
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Default not fringe, but kind of mixed on colors

I don't think the deep fringe prescription would work for me because of the overloading issue i see people talking about. Apparantly a lot of my stations are all over the place in the color charts for some reason, but i have quite a few yellow stations. I only get 1 station in clearly though on my rabbit ears so I desparately need something. This is the antennaweb report from my location which is on the very western edge of zip 35611. I'm also up on a nice hill which will be very good for me. Heavy winds are also a concern up here. The river seems to let the wind rip.

yellow - uhf WFIQ-DT 36.1 PBS FLORENCE AL 247 33.0 22
yellow - uhf WZDX 54 FOX HUNTSVILLE AL 95 41.1 54
yellow - uhf WZDX-DT 54.1 FOX HUNTSVILLE AL 95 41.1 41
yellow - uhf WHNT-DT 19.1 CBS HUNTSVILLE AL 95 41.1 59
yellow - uhf WHDF 15 CW FLORENCE AL 25 17.0 15
yellow - uhf WHDF-DT 14.1 CW FLORENCE AL 25 17.0 14
green - uhf WHIQ 25 PBS HUNTSVILLE AL 95 41.3 25
green - uhf WHIQ-DT 25.1 PBS HUNTSVILLE AL 95 41.3 24
green - uhf WHNT 19 CBS HUNTSVILLE AL 95 41.1 19
green - uhf WYLE 26 IND FLORENCE AL 247 32.9 26
green - uhf WYLE-DT 20 IND FLORENCE AL 249 29.6 20
green - uhf WAAY 31 ABC HUNTSVILLE AL 95 41.1 31
green - uhf WFIQ 36 PBS FLORENCE AL 247 33.0 36
lt green - uhf W57BV 57 TBN FLORENCE AL 256 27.0 57
red - uhf WAFF 48 NBC HUNTSVILLE AL 98 41.2 48
blue - uhf WAFF-DT 48.1 NBC HUNTSVILLE AL 98 41.2 49
blue - uhf W67CO 67 TBN HUNTSVILLE AL 100 42.6 67
blue - vhf WTZT-LP 11 FMN ATHENS AL 90 18.3 11
blue - uhf W66DH 22 TBN DECATUR AL 148 15.5 22
blue - uhf WAAY-DT 31.1 ABC HUNTSVILLE AL 95 41.1 32
violet - vhf WBRC 6 FOX BIRMINGHAM AL 165 92.7 6
violet - vhf WKRN 2 ABC NASHVILLE TN 17 90.9 2

The 3 vhf stations i might can live without, but if i could pick up all the nashville and birmingham stations, than that might be worth the effort. Odd that only 2 stations from each place show on the chart
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:11 AM   #94  
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try a Winegard HD9095P or an Antennas Direct 91XG pointed at 95 to 98 degrees (Huntsville) - or - mount the antenna with a rotor to get everything within range. Use high grade RG6 coax and ground the mast and ground the coax prior to entry into the house. I think you should have a good selection of digital channels to watch
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:24 AM   #95  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskers
I don't think the deep fringe prescription would work for me because of the overloading issue i see people talking about.
The HDP-269 won't overload in your case. The slight difference in performance shouldn't matter.
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:00 PM   #96  
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I'm back, with a update seeking advice. Today I bought a CM 4228 and everything to set up a antennae except the preamp. That store didn't sell the suggested preamp, and I figured I should do some testing before buying one.

I Assembled the 4228 and hooked it up. Now understand it is not out on a pole yet, it is standing up inside my house near my new TV. The difference on my analog stations is tremendous, but the reception is not perfect, I'm convinced the purchase price will be more than worth it once it out and up in the air for this alone. However my set still can't even find a hint of a digital station. I do have some trees tween my house and the direction most of my stations are in, but even the florence digital station is not showing up, and there no trees in that direction. I bought a 30' telescoping mast by the way, looked like a good fit for where I plan to install the antennae.

I'm not sure which path I should take now, Should I go for the CM 4777 preamp, or the previous mentioned Winegard Hdp version. To dodge those trees would require me to run cable about 100' from my house and install the antennae differently. Not to mention that long line for the rotor. Or am I worried about nothing since it inside. Perhaps what I need to do is take the big 100' of coax i bought and play with it outside for awhile.

I have another stupid question, I didn't buy standouts yet, but obviously with that mast I'm going to need some to secure the wires to that mast, but the only standouts I see are designed for the cable/flat wire. What do you do about the ground wire and the rotor wires? Am I looking in wrong place? Do I use 3 sets of standouts? Is it important to keep them apart? Also the 4228 instructions don't say anything specific about where to attach the ground wire to it. Just on the bottom. Where is the best place, just wrap it around some of the wire grid?

Last edited by Whiskers; 11-07-2006 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:39 AM   #97  
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the 4228 will need to be "aimed" at the Huntsville stations and are you scanning for digital stations with your ATSC tuner ?

Have someone hold the antenna up outside and rescan for your digital stations - definately not a long term solution 8-), but will tell you if you can receive them or not.

I really doubt the 4228 mounted 30' in the air will need a pre-amp, unless you run more than 100' of cable. Then the pre-amp will be there to overcome coax losses in the long run.

Standouts: not needed for high grade shielded RG-6 coax. run the coax straight down the mast and tape it securely. Sometimes wrapping the coax around the mast can creat some unwanted side effects (you are creating a loosely wound coil ).

Grounding: The antenna is well attached to the mast. If you attach the ground wire to the top mast section with a self tapping heavy screw or bolt, you will be fine. Run the ground wire to a driven ground rod, and if possible, run a lateral ground wire to your house electrical ground rod and connect the two ground systems together. Install a coax grounding block at the entry point of the coax into your house. If you need to drive a 3rd ground rod here, again try to interconnect all the separate ground rods together into one ground system. I know it sounds like a huge bunch of work, but the National Electric Code requires it and for the safety of your home, it is just the right thing to do. Interconnecting all the grounds is not as critical has actually having them, but it makes the whole system much safer. The reason I recommend connecting your ground cable to the top mast section of your 30' push up mast is I'm not real sure how good the electrical connection between the mast segments will be with just a cross pin holding them up. If you take the time to "jumper" all the mast sections together across the joints, then the mast will also function as part of the ground system as it sits in the earth, but without the jumper connections you may not have electrical continuity across the joints.

If you install a rotor, than make sure you ground the rotor cable also, before it enters your house. There used to be special grounding blocks for rotor cable, I assume there still are. The ground can still be attached to the top section of the actual mast, below the rotor, because you will have good mechanical clamping connections between the actual antenna mast, the rotor, and the mast the rotor attaches to.

It's going to be a big project, so good luck.
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:38 PM   #98  
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Default Almost answered, little more please

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter
the 4228 will need to be "aimed" at the Huntsville stations and are you scanning for digital stations with your ATSC tuner ?

Of course I done that!

Have someone hold the antenna up outside and rescan for your digital stations - definately not a long term solution 8-), but will tell you if you can receive them or not.

Play with it outside than!

I really doubt the 4228 mounted 30' in the air will need a pre-amp, unless you run more than 100' of cable. Then the pre-amp will be there to overcome coax losses in the long run.

Standouts: not needed for high grade shielded RG-6 coax. run the coax straight down the mast and tape it securely. Sometimes wrapping the coax around the mast can creat some unwanted side effects (you are creating a loosely wound coil ).

Tape? well not as pretty but why not.

Grounding: The antenna is well attached to the mast. If you attach the ground wire to the top mast section with a self tapping heavy screw or bolt, you will be fine. Run the ground wire to a driven ground rod, and if possible, run a lateral ground wire to your house electrical ground rod and connect the two ground systems together. Install a coax grounding block at the entry point of the coax into your house. If you need to drive a 3rd ground rod here, again try to interconnect all the separate ground rods together into one ground system. I know it sounds like a huge bunch of work, but the National Electric Code requires it and for the safety of your home, it is just the right thing to do. Interconnecting all the grounds is not as critical has actually having them, but it makes the whole system much safer. The reason I recommend connecting your ground cable to the top mast section of your 30' push up mast is I'm not real sure how good the electrical connection between the mast segments will be with just a cross pin holding them up. If you take the time to "jumper" all the mast sections together across the joints, then the mast will also function as part of the ground system as it sits in the earth, but without the jumper connections you may not have electrical continuity across the joints.

OK, it not the antennae piece to worry about, Just the top of the mast. Easy to deal with. I know what a self tapping screw is.

If you install a rotor, than make sure you ground the rotor cable also, before it enters your house. There used to be special grounding blocks for rotor cable, I assume there still are. The ground can still be attached to the top section of the actual mast, below the rotor, because you will have good mechanical clamping connections between the actual antenna mast, the rotor, and the mast the rotor attaches to.

This one difficult to deal with. Even the instructions say ground the rotor cable. But it gives no info on how to do that. There 3 frigging wires! Which is the ground! Black? just connect the black to the ground? Wish channel master wouldn't assume everyone has already installed one of these things before, I can rebuild a car engine, which I'm sure they can't, but i've never put up a TV aerial before.

It's going to be a big project, so good luck.
This whole house is a big project, the TV aierial is just a small part, but thanks.

lol, this forum works different than many i been in, it don't like me commenting within someones elses post, so read carefully, it intermingled in there.

Last edited by Whiskers; 11-08-2006 at 12:41 PM..
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:49 PM   #99  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter
Standouts: not needed for high grade shielded RG-6 coax. run the coax straight down the mast and tape it securely. Sometimes wrapping the coax around the mast can creat some unwanted side effects (you are creating a loosely wound coil ).
I specifically pulled this piece out separate to get a answer, The coax they sold me he said is shielded, but it not quad shielded. The people at the electronics store said that was over kill and noone normally uses that for TV antennas. It wasn't particularly cheap coax, but it not the highest grade stuff either. No package to give any specs off of. It just came in a coil. Should I run with that or return it and get something else? It is not that really cheap stuff that marketed as burial cable they sell for $9.95 for 100'

Last edited by Whiskers; 11-08-2006 at 01:02 PM..
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:05 PM   #100  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskers
I specifically pulled this piece out separate to get a answer, The coax they sold me he said is shielded, but it not quad shielded. The people at the electronics store said that was over kill and noone normally uses that for TV antennas. It wasn't particularly cheap coax, but it not the highest grade stuff either. No package to give any specs off of. It just came in a coil. Should I run with that or return it and get something else? It is not that really cheap stuff that marketed as burial cable they sell for $9.95 for 100'
Quad shielded RG-6 is needed mostly for CATV when there is an over the air channel on the same channel as the CATV assignment. The OTA signal leaks into the CATV system and causes ghosting.
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:55 PM   #101  
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Whiskers: if you are not seeing any digital stations then there is something wrong with your setup. What TV do you have? Does it have an ATSC digital tuner (not QAM)?
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:15 PM   #102  
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It's a Vizio L37 LCD tv. Acronyms don't mean much to me, never heard of QAM. It definately has a DTV tuner cause the menu is scanning for DTV stations. As for setup, yes it has a problem, it not totally set up yet, that why I came here. To learn how to set it up properly. As I said before in my posts, the 4228 antenna is currently sitting in my living room beside the tv pointing toward the majority of my stations. I hope to get it up in the air outside this weekend. I hooked it up like a giant set of rabbit ears to improve the signal as best i could, and see if I needed a preamp before I got it up 30' in the air. I really don't want to take it down to redo something.

Hehe, little update, while looking thru the manual trying to find the acronyms tex was talking about, I discovered this crazy tv has 2 antenna inputs. One for DTV and the other for standard analog TV or cable. I swapped connection to the new connection and it found 1 DTV station. Talk about a sharp clean picture. It not HDTV, standard formatting, but I guess that just the program they showing. And it also is not one of the stations I'm pointing at, but one 180 degrees in the opposite direction that is closer to me. Unfortunately I lost all my analog stations by doing this, I guess I'm expected to split the damn signal and hook it to both places. So yes, the tv is capable of receiving DTV, the question of whether I need a preamp is still in the air.

Yes I am a total newbie to HDTV. But hey, I got this tv new for $670 shipped, so I'm not stupid.

Last edited by Whiskers; 11-08-2006 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 11-09-2006, 08:00 AM   #103  
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Yes, some TVs have two separate antenna inputs. If you need analog as well as digital just buy a two-way splitter, it really does not matter what splitter you buy, all two-way splitters basically have the same losses.

My guess is you may not need a preamp unless you have a very long cable run, but you won't know until you get the CM4228 on top of the mast - OTA reception is mainly driven by the height of your antenna. The fact you are splitting the signal makes the need for a preamp more likely.

With the CM4228 you won't get the analog stations at channels 2 and 6 and probably not the one at channel 11 either. You may get some digital stations that antennaweb isn't showing you, it is very conservative in its estimates for digitals.
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:26 PM   #104  
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Hi,

I've been using a Radio Shack vu190 for the past few months and was getting good results so I decided to add a digital tuner. The tuner is able to pick up 4 stations, depending on the weather, and I figured I'd add a CM 4228 to see if I could get consistent lock on any of them. So I ordered one and installed it today and am somewhat dissapointed with the results. I can't get any watchable analog channels and only 1 digital channel locks on.

Meanwhile the Radio Shack antenna is pulling in about a dozen watchable channels. Obviously I missed something when choosing the 4228 or there's a problem with the antenna. I don't see any signs of damage on the antenna and have mounted it in the same spot that I was previously using for the RS antenna using the same cable and mast mounted pre-amplifier . The RS antenna has been relocated and is still working well even though it's using a cheap amplifier I bought at Wal Mart for $20.

At the moments I have them each on a sperate line. The RS is going into the antenna input on the TV and the CM is going into the digital tuner which connects to the TV via the audio/visual inputs. I've tried connecting the CM directly to the TV but like I said I don't get any watchable analog channels.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. bob

Last edited by crabbybob; 11-18-2006 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 11-18-2006, 09:37 PM   #105  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbybob
Hi,

I've been using a Radio Shack vu190 for the past few months and was getting good results so I decided to add a digital tuner. The tuner is able to pick up 4 stations, depending on the weather, and I figured I'd add a CM 4228 to see if I could get consistent lock on any of them. So I ordered one and installed it today and am somewhat dissapointed with the results. I can't get any watchable analog channels and only 1 digital channel locks on.

Meanwhile the Radio Shack antenna is pulling in about a dozen watchable channels. Obviously I missed something when choosing the 4228 or there's a problem with the antenna. I don't see any signs of damage on the antenna and have mounted it in the same spot that I was previously using for the RS antenna using the same cable and mast mounted pre-amplifier . The RS antenna has been relocated and is still working well even though it's using a cheap amplifier I bought at Wal Mart for $20.

At the moments I have them each on a sperate line. The RS is going into the antenna input on the TV and the CM is going into the digital tuner which connects to the TV via the audio/visual inputs. I've tried connecting the CM directly to the TV but like I said I don't get any watchable analog channels.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. bob
You need to give us more information. What is your zip code?

Your analog stations are probably VHF and the digitals are probably UHF. The 4228 is primarily a UHF antenna.
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