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Tigerbangs NEW Prescription for Deep-Fringe Reception

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Old 03-22-2012, 08:18 PM   #1
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Default Tigerbangs NEW Prescription for Deep-Fringe Reception

So much has changed since I published my original prescription for deep-fringe reception 7 years ago: Digital transmission is the way of the broadcasting world in the USA and urban Canada. Low-band VHF broadcasting has been reduced to a mere handful of stations (less than 5% of the total broadcasting stations). UHF now plays a much larger role in the scheme of the broadcasting landscape, and yet 80% of the North American population still has at least one VHF digital station in their broadcast market.

Based on the new realities of TV in 2012, and the plethora of new antennas available, it is time to revise the deep-fringe prescription. Because each TV market is unique, it is impossible to cover every situation with one solution: it is therefore critical that you post your http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29 report when requesting reception help.

if we assume that you are 50+ miles from a city's transmitting antennas, and that TV market has a combination of VHF-high-band plus UHF stations in it, I recommend the following:

An AntennaCraft Y-10-7-13 VHF high-band yagi
An AntennasDirect 91XG UHF antenna
A dual input preamplifier, such as a Channel Master Titan 7777, or an AntennaCraft 10G221, or a Winegard AP-2880.

In areas with a combination of both strong and weak TV signals, the AntennaCraft 10G221 is the preferred preamplifier due to it's higher input overload threshold.

A rotator is usually indicated in areas where TV signals can be received from more than one TV market. When using a large, 2-antenna system such as the prescription, a heavy-duty rotator such as a Hy-Gain AR-40 is preferred.

Where cost is of primary importance, you may substitute a Channel Master 9521a or an AntennaCraft TDP-2, but expect that their MTBF is far less than one would get from the AR-40.

Always use high-quality RG-6u coaxial cable when installing an antenna. Use the best-quality compression-type "F" fittings available, such as the Thomas & Betts fittings. Use anti-seize compound on all threaded fittings, and be sure to use weather boots over all outside-mounted "F" fittings.

RG-6 quad shield cable is often discussed because of it's superior shielding properties, but it is more difficult to use and install than RG-6u, and has more line loss. It is unnecessary for TV receive-only applications.

Here is a good installation guide to answer questions about siting and mounting your antenna system:
http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntIn...tm_campaign=CJ
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File Type: jpg 10-y-7-13+91XG.jpg (56.4 KB, 217 views)
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Last edited by tigerbangs; 03-22-2012 at 08:22 PM..
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:09 AM   #2
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nice to see an update to the script, btw for those who would ask, yes the 91xg does well at 60+ miles if you have no major obstructions (mountains) and will give you years of service...I've had mine for some time now and its doing great....best antenna I've ever had for uhf....of coarse...that tower I have doesn't hurt either lol.
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:51 AM   #3
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TB,

Good to see you back around again. Missed you for awhile there...

Please be aware the the 7777 that has been around a long time is being replaced by a newer single-input version that CM will be selling under the same model number. Same for the medium gain 7778.

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Old 03-23-2012, 09:27 AM   #4
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Lately, I have been using more and more AntennaCraft preamplifiers: the new 10G221 and 10G222 are dual input models that differ in gain and input overload capability, but have several useful features not found on other preamps, such as a user-adjustable gain control and inside-switchable FM traps. Both of these features make tailoring the signal much easier because they can be adjusted at the inside power supply rather than on the mast-mounted preamplifier.

On another issue, I am noticing the widespread quality control issues regarding antenna matching transformers (baulns) I am not sure why I am seeing so many failures, but a bad bauln will ruin your day very quickly, and it's such a cheap part that you wouldn't expect it to fail, but they do! Many failed antenna installations these days are directly attributable to bauln failure, and good antennas are often blamed because of the failure of a $2.00 part. In my experience, the Channel Master 0089 or 0090 baulns have been very reliable, and have low loss.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:56 AM   #5
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Technicially - you do not want to use anti seize on the threaded fittings.

It would be better to use a synthetic grease such as Permatex Industrial Super Lube.

Anti Seize compounds always have some type of metallic agent - copper, silver etc which causes the terminals to short out against the grease.

We want to keep the moisture out and the signal in.
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:23 PM   #6
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Tigerbangs:

Thanks very much for the updates.

Was wondering if any input overload threshold rating is available for the AntennaCraft 10G221 preamplifier, for comparison to the Winegard HDP-269, which I understand is rated at 350,000 microvolts. Have there been any installations where you've found one of these higher-threshold amps to overload, but not the other? Trying to also decide whether the adjustable gain control on the 10G221 could make its threshold effectively higher than that for the HDP-269, or whether that control actually doesn't end up affecting the actual threshold at all.

Thanks...
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:48 PM   #7
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AntennaCraft claims 150,000 microvolt overload threshold for the 10G221 when operated at full gain. The antenna gain potentiometer offers about 10dB attenuation, which would push that up past a full volt for a single signal. The 10G221 should be useful where multiple 60dBu signals are present at the antenna terminals. For that reason, it would be preferable to a Channel Master Titan 7777 or 7778 in areas that combine both strong and weak TV signals. it's primary advantages over the Winegard HDP-269 include the separate VHF and UHF inputs, switchable FM trapping, and the user-adjustable gain control.

What I have not yet been able to determine is what effect reducing the gain on the preamplifier using the potentiometer has on the noise floor of the preamplifier. Previous experience tells me that reducing gain may actually increase the internal noise of the preamp. In actual use, I haven't yet seen evidence of this, but I haven't looked at the output on a 'scope, either.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:51 PM   #8
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Thanks for this Tiger. The old thread has been unstuck and closed.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:18 AM   #9
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(Before the new sticky)

Originally Posted by mp11
Does anyone know if the VIP 306 or 307 might still be available? I know they've been discontinued, but is it possible some retailer may still have them?

Originally posted by Tigerbangs
The supply of VIP 306 and 307s appears to have dried up, however, if you need a great VHF antenna, I noticed that Warren Electron ics has a Channel Master Quantum 1110 and a 1111 NOS at reasonable prices. You might want to give them a call...

So Tigerbangs, you've seen the Quantum 1110 on their websight lately? Would you know the gain numbers for either Quantum? Thanks.

Last edited by mp11; 03-24-2012 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp11 View Post
(Before the new sticky)


So Tigerbangs, you've seen the Quantum 1110 on their websight lately? Would you know the gain numbers for either Quantum? Thanks.
I don't care what the gain figures say: the Quantum 1110 was the best VHF-only antenna ever made: end of story! They have not been made in over a decade, and the supply of them has long ago been thought to have dried up.

Have a look at this link from an article published 30 years ago: it tells the story.
http://www.anarc.org/wtfda/crossfire.pdf
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:36 PM   #11
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I got the TB Prescription a few months ago and im cured now and when the tropo is in my favor its just like having a dish but without the monthly cost.... again
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:09 PM   #12
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Small Engine, you may want to consider using a thrust bearing to reduce the vertical load of the long mast above the rotor. Using a 5 foot mast above the rotor would be my maximum recommendation for trouble free operation unless a thrust bearing is used.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:35 AM   #13
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Thanks Hoop,
I am not currently using a thrust bearing but I will look into one. also The money you will save from cutting out the Dish service will quickly add up and you will be able to get the deep fringe equipment with money left over. I have saved $50+ each month for over three years now and I have only spent a fraction of the savings on OTA stuff and I could only add that when you are dealing with fringe reception you must make sure that you are using the best/new coax available and make sure your cable runs are with in a few feet of what you need (period) and with no extra coiled up coax in your system. get rid of any coax connectors ( if any) and use a low noise pre-amp like the CM 7777.. and get your antenna up as far as you can in the air. That is the only way your gona know what your OTA potential is gona be like.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbangs View Post
AntennaCraft claims 150,000 microvolt overload threshold for the 10G221 when operated at full gain. The antenna gain potentiometer offers about 10dB attenuation, which would push that up past a full volt for a single signal. The 10G221 should be useful where multiple 60dBu signals are present at the antenna terminals. For that reason, it would be preferable to a Channel Master Titan 7777 or 7778 in areas that combine both strong and weak TV signals. it's primary advantages over the Winegard HDP-269 include the separate VHF and UHF inputs, switchable FM trapping, and the user-adjustable gain control.

What I have not yet been able to determine is what effect reducing the gain on the preamplifier using the potentiometer has on the noise floor of the preamplifier. Previous experience tells me that reducing gain may actually increase the internal noise of the preamp. In actual use, I haven't yet seen evidence of this, but I haven't looked at the output on a 'scope, either.
Tigerbangs. When you say that the 10G221 is more useful in applications where multiple 60dBu signals are present, do you mean the Noise Margin of these stations?

What about a Research Communications 9262 pre amp? Will that reject strong signals if they are present?

And how does the 10G222 differ from the 10G221 in rejecting strong signals?

Last edited by Billiam; 03-29-2012 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:06 PM   #15
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Tigerbangs:

Thank you for your refresh of your Deep Fringe Prescription.

Could you please address the noise factor on the recommended Antennacraft pre-amp?

I have heretofore understood that the pre-amps of choice tended to have a noise factor at 3 1/2 dB or lower. The Antennacraft is somewhere above 4 dB.

Is this difference significant?
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