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Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha who gives the most bang for the buck?

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Old 03-30-2008, 05:17 AM   #46  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inazsully View Post
Wow, really interesting stuff. Except who cares? The difference in sound quality between all the receivers mentioned is minimal. Probably non existent to the average buyer, or even the slightly above average buyer. Bang for the buck = very acceptable sound for the masses, more features then previously available at this price point. I mean, that's really where it's at for most of us. The automatic speaker set up feature is a must, and it works.

Who cares???

That one really loses me.
Here on a high definition site then really confuses me.
People out to get high definition and why do we want high definition, because we want the best.
XBR and Kuro's talked about daily, the best for the money.
HD-DVD and Blu Ray players, best PQ out there.
What now is the basis of all this receiver talk?
True HD a DTS-MA?
What's the difference between DTS-DD a and True HD and DTS-MA.
Well DD and DTS are compressed audio.
Very carefully compressed audio where they key on eliminating the sounds the human can not hear, leaving the range we can hear pretty much untouched, thus saving space/size.
Again biggest difference between the audio formats is sounds we can or can't hear. The ones we can't here, which bass tones is one of them, require some decent power to recreate.
According to your point of good enough for the masses etc and my understanding and trials, why are you going beyond a DVD player and a HTIB 5.1 surround because that should be more than good enough?
I'll probably get something like because I want better, well then I offer some facts for those whom maybe want to go one up and have even better.
To tell you the truth, for DTS-MA and True HD I would not buy a receiver which will become obsolete as they nail down the specs. I'd buy a Player that decodes it internally because thats the best bang for the buck. Most player are within a few bucks from $399-$499, right?
Well get the one that decodes, go buy the guys who had to have this new decoding receiver, used one and get the big bang.

You see my Integra listed.
Some moron that had to have the latest and greatest decoding receiver listed this prime condition unit for which I bought a $800+ unit for $159 plus shipping. The Sharp BD player put me back $262 on 6th Ave.

I'm sorry and will never again give and answer that allows one as much information needed to base a purchase upon because this is the good enough site!!!!

I did the Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer thing and found that with a little insight, a little leg work etc I could blow that outta the water for less if I did it right and get the most bang for the buck.
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Old 03-30-2008, 06:56 PM   #47  
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yea Yamaha, Onkyo and Denon are all great recievers. You just need to look in the right range of price, features you will use and performance.
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Old 03-30-2008, 09:36 PM   #48  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAD2 View Post
Who cares???
Very carefully compressed audio where they key on eliminating the sounds the human can not hear, leaving the range we can hear pretty much untouched, thus saving space/size.
Again biggest difference between the audio formats is sounds we can or can't hear. The ones we can't here, which bass tones is one of them, require some decent power to recreate.
Is that a good thing?
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:38 AM   #49  
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Is that a good thing?
I don't understand the good thing part???

Normal DD and DTS is compressed as I said nd they eliminate frequency's the human ear cannot hear.
True HD and DTS-MA are uncompressed and untouched as it was recorded.

If you meaning as a good thing, the the compression doesn't lose you anything you could hear, then you'd be partially right.
Higher frequencies no matter what, you can't hear nor feel them, so thats of no object.
But lower bass frequencies you may not hear, but you dam well can feel them.
The human hearing range at birth is from 20-20,000 khz. Then as you age and get plastered by sounds you begin to lose some. But by the mid 40's the average is in the mid 30's to the mid to upper teens.

Now will go one more.
Once sounds are uncompressed there are whats known as artifacts leftover. This is similar to the noise you see on your HDTV when you get a shitty signal or up convert ones. People can hear these artifacts as crackles, hiss etc during sound playback. This is were good DAC's can make a difference. Since they are better at the uncompression, artifacts are limited.

Now amps. The amp needs to be able to maintain power so that no frequency it is made to play lowers in DB so the sound is full. Full is the 20,000KHZ sounds play as loud as the 20 hz ones. Now the power doesn't have to be LOUD, just maintain. If 40 watts is enough, 40 and so on till whatever. But poorer amps such as digital amps have alot of trouble maintaining power at below 150hz. As it gets under that figure the DB's lower leaving a void from full sound until you get to where the sub kicks in. Some problem is that people set the crossovers wrong on their LFE output. Weak speakers and weak amps need to be 120-150, which is on the bubble of the crossover max of most good subs and leave a void. Good speakers you can set them at 80hz which is the THX spec or lower, no void.

Now speakers and subs.
Your normal everyday CC and BB bought speakers are fairly decent, but just don't cut the mustard in their abilities, subs especially. Polks, JBl, Infinity subs etc just don't go low enough with any force, 30 hz at bet before they fall flat on their faces. Even though you'd have a hard time hearing it, its the pounding on your chest during leadup scenes that gets you. Having mains dropping off while subs trying to take over leave something to be desired if you've ever listened to a powerhouse system.

Subs need to at lest hit 25hz @ 3 db down, coupled with speakers that can get into the lower 40's 3 db down.

So what it boils down to is combinations of equipment can make more a difference in the movie presentations sound, then adding True HD and DTS-MA.

I did the route that most have done, but before True HD and DTS-MA were out, I listened, read between the lines etc trying to get nailed down what other have heard.
I'm cheap, frugal and openly admit it. I did what others here are doing by the upgraditious bug and just still questioned what I had. I ended up selling all my equipment and doing a REAL upgrade, FRUGAL STYLE.

I build speakers using my original polk cabinets, found drives to work in that space that were of good quality and they hits mid 30's with no problem. Cost was less to upgrade them by a long shot then it was to buy them. I broke about even after selling the drivers off.
Built my own sub with a Rhythmic amp and Dayton Reference Drivers, 25hz @ 3 db down, no problem.
Backed it with a receiver that can holds its own, that some person with upgraditous was dumping.

I'm happy as a pig in shit now and it ended up cheaper than going out and upgrading again to new equipment that still probably would have me going??????

My Sharp decodes Lossless and its not that big of deal over DD and DTS done right. My sub can't hit 5-10hz, so that in lossless doesnt matter. My DAC's and power don't see much if anything and improvement in the lossless versus DD-DTS.
If I had even better equipment, speakers and sub wise, would I then go lossless????
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:28 AM   #50  
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I have read that you can actually feel higher frequencies. Now, with speakers that can go up as high as 51 khz would you say that is useless? I am in the process of building my HT room 26' x 15'. I bought my 7 speakers (Tannoy reveal 6 & 66 as the center). I will probably go with Tannoy sub ts12 x 2. I have had a realy hard time deciding on a receiver. Hatt & Loves2Watch have been very helpfull, but I am still deciding. What would you recomend on a receiver?
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:20 PM   #51  
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We can't hear it nor should we be able to feel it.
Its not completely out of the question given certain things around us might respond to that frequency, then give off their own due to the vibrations they received.
Most speaker companies even though most do all play higher than 20,000, don't advertise that fact. Few studys and arguments show anything definitive about feeling or hearing that high.
I wouldn't worry about the speakers ability.

What would concern me, looking at what you picked, is a 6 Ohm stable receiver on all channels.
Alot of receivers can take 6 ohms on the mains only, but not on the surround side of things.
Your looking at upper class receivers that are capable of a 4 ohm. You "should" be ok in middle arena receivers but may run a risk.

I can not recommend a receiver, just give some facts. The decision is purely yours, but in this case like I said, upper class ones. Or ones that definitely say it somewhere in the literature.

It be something like;
6-16 ohms
4 ohms, maybe 6 ohm stable.

Not dynamic power at 6 ohms etc.
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