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Why I'm Glad Toshiba Lost the Format War

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Old 02-20-2008, 03:02 PM   #16  
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Originally Posted by Loran1 View Post
I am personally glad that Toshiba lost the format war to Blu-ray. You see back in the eighties I was still a U.S. Naval reservist flying P-3ís over the Pacific often looking for Russian submarines. I spent many hours being a bit scared at 100 feet over dark waters at night. But it was fairly easy to hear Soviet subs through our listening devices in the water due to their loud propeller blades -- until Toshiba screwed it up as per the following:




After that, we all vowed to boycott Toshiba product for the rest of our lives.
Thank You For YOUR service !
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:09 PM   #17  
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
It resulted in criminal convictions for good reason.
Toshiba is a corporation for god's sake. The guilty have been punished.
To hold a grudge against current employees and stockholders is juvenile lunacy.

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You and I can't judge somebody that has been in that position. . . . but I understand his point of view and why many other members of our military during that time feel the same way.
Sorry, if you don't understand the power of "truth and reconciliation" and if you are unable to comprehend the concept of honor and forgiveness . . . I feel sorry for you.

Sure, this guy was "scared", but he survived unscathed - lucky him.

I guess you can't wait for John McCain to come out with an inditement of all Vietnamese people and companies because of their cruelty to him.
Thank god for the likes of real heros like John McCain who do not carry a grudge but instead find a way to set a decent example of what constitutes honorable service.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:35 PM   #18  
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As for the OP . . .

The most important thing that I ever learned about holding a grudge

is that it occupies a lot of space in my brain that could be put to far better use.

My advise [sic]. . . get over it.
Iím not holding a grudge. Iím just exercising my right as a consumer to not buy Toshiba products. It takes no effort and is really easy to do, considering that anything they make can be purchased from another company.

Having said that, you may not understand how serious it was for us at the time. The technology was developed for the U.S. via a contract with Toshiba. Giving the secrets to the USSR was tantamount to a spy giving away military secrets for profit at our expense. Now the players may not be around today, but I believe itís important to discourage such things from happening again, and this is our (Navy ASW crewmembers) modest contribution to that effort.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:47 PM   #19  
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Having said that, you may not understand how serious it was for us at the time. The technology was developed for the U.S. via a contract with Toshiba. Giving the secrets to the USSR was tantamount to a spy giving away military secrets for profit at our expense. Now the players may not be around today, but I believe itís important to discourage such things from happening again, and this is our (Navy ASW crewmembers) modest contribution to that effort.
Make sure you never buy a BMW car, that might signal the german company to again start making war planes for the next nazi uprising.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:50 PM   #20  
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... I don't know the corporations that did business with the Nazis, thus my comment of corporations I can think of. Do you know them? The corporations were employed by the German government and really I can't fault them without knowing specifics of the contracts entered into or anything about what those corporations knew. ...

Chris
The following was taken from the website of the Law office of Myroslaw Smorodsky, Esq. :

SLAVE/FORCED LABOR CLASS ACTIONS AGAINST GERMAN INDUSTRY


In the late 1990's, numerous lawsuits were instituted throughout the US seeking to recover damages sustained by victims of the Nazi horror of World War II. Among them were litigations on behalf of Ukrainian survivors of the forcible Nazi deportation of millions of Ukrainians during World War II to Germany and Austria to work as forced/slave laborers in various factories, farms and government enterprises in the Reich.

On August 11, 1999, a class action litigation was instituted in the Federal District Court, Eastern District of New York, against German Industry for their use of slave and forced labor. The lawsuit names several prominent German companies as defendants claiming they participated in and benefited from these war crimes. EVGENY GUMINSKY, et. als., Plaintiffs VS. Bayerische Motoren Werke AG; et. als., Defendants.

A second suit was instituted in February of 2000, in the Federal District Court, Southern District of New York against Commerzbank of Germany from profiting from slave/forced labor. Some slave/forced laborers were ostensibly paid very meager salaries (which they never received) but which were paid into ďsaving accountsĒ for the forced laborers. As the war drew to a close, even these ďsavings accountsĒ were looted by the banks and never accounted for. Nadia Matviivna VYDRYGAN, et. als., Plaintiffs VS. COMMERZBANK, AG, Defendants.

Another litigation (on behalf of not only Ukrainians but all nationalities) was filed in August of 2000 in the Federal District Court, District of Columbia, against Austria and Austrian industry for use of forced and slave labor on the territory of Austria during world War II. EUDOKIA KRILL et. als., Plaintiffs, VS. FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF AUSTRIA, MAGNA INTERNATIONAL INC. A companion suit seeks recovery against Austria and German industry for property losses resulting from asset looting and aryanization.

On July 17, 2000, after sometimes difficult and frustrating eighteen month long negotiations, the representatives of Five Central and East European countries [CEE] (Belarus, the Czech Republic, Poland, Russia and Ukraine), Israel, Germany and the United States, and German Industry, as well as the legal representatives of former victims of Nazi persecution, finally signed a Settlement Agreement to compensate these victims for their suffering during World War II. The signing took place in a formal ceremony at the German Foreign Ministry in Berlin. The Austrian negotiations began in the spring of 2000, and settlement documents for the slave/forced labor portion of the Austrian litigations were signed on October 24, 2000 in Vienna. Myroslaw Smorodsky, Esq. was one of the attorneys in the all above litigations and participated in the negotiations of the German and Austrian Settlements as a plaintiffsí counsel and as a member of the Ukrainian Government Delegation.


If you want to see actual documents look here: http://www.state.gov/www/regions/eur...austhp.html#fs

Many of these companies have changed their names and are
certainly not the same companies as they were then. Nor is Toshiba the same company as it was. But your statements are so very biased they are without creditability. When you said you could think of ". . . no corporation with a worse record than Toshiba's in terms of corporate wrong doing." I believed you! I just wanted express my opinion that I think you not capable of rational thought. I could be wrong; I know you are.

I certainly respect LCDR Loran1's service to America and his boycott of Toshiba. I have had many (older) Jewish family friends that would not ever own a Ford, BMW, Porsche, Volkswagen, etc. for obvious reasons. I'm not saying we should carry a grudge; we should not. -- but we should study history and NEVER forget . . .
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:03 PM   #21  
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Toshiba is a corporation for god's sake. The guilty have been punished.
To hold a grudge against current employees and stockholders is juvenile lunacy.


Sorry, if you don't understand the power of "truth and reconciliation" and if you are unable to comprehend the concept of honor and forgiveness . . . I feel sorry for you.

Sure, this guy was "scared", but he survived unscathed - lucky him.

I guess you can't wait for John McCain to come out with an inditement of all Vietnamese people and companies because of their cruelty to him.
Thank god for the likes of real heros like John McCain who do not carry a grudge but instead find a way to set a decent example of what constitutes honorable service.
He is boycotting a corporation that allowed this to happen at the highest levels. You called it a grudge, nobody else did. I certainly find nothing dishonorable about a private citizen choosing to do business or not do business with whichever companies he sees fit. You seem to have some silly idea about that as it regards to not being a decent example of what constitues honorable service. I have seen some nonsense from you, but that one is really way out there.

Chris
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:11 PM   #22  
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Make sure you never buy a BMW car, that might signal the german company to again start making war planes for the next nazi uprising.
I know youíre being clever, but in actuality buying German automobiles helps their economy and may avoid a return to Nazism. Having said that, I drive an Infiniti. I hope thereís no parts in it made by Toshiba.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:14 PM   #23  
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Make sure you never buy a BMW car, that might signal the german company to again start making war planes for the next nazi uprising.
How does that have any relevance? A discussion of Toshiba, the company responsible for the development of HD DVD has jumped to a discussion about the Nazis? If Germany was still condoning Nazi activity, I would be concerned about Germany, the country is not and is an ally of ours and anybody that can afford a BMW and wants a BMW should have no animosity against Germany because of that horrific chapter in German history.

I personally have forgiven Toshiba and I do business with Toshiba. I have had a lot of problems with the continual complaints about Sony at this forum, regarding past Sony acitivity and offered examples of the history of Toshiba corporate wrong doing to show how silly the Sony is bad and Toshiba is good argument is. Any consumer that chooses to boycott Toshiba because of their prior activity or boycott Sony because of their prior activity is just simply using their rightful method of protest. That is pretty simple, how this discussion jumped to the crap about the Nazis makes no sense to me at all.

Chris
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:22 PM   #24  
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I know youíre being clever, but in actuality buying German automobiles helps their economy and may avoid a return to Nazism. Having said that, I drive an Infiniti. I hope thereís no parts in it made by Toshiba.
Well, I dont think theres any chance that Toshiba and Japan will start developing any radical policies of imperialism..

Anyways not ragging on you, Id probably do the same thing. Everyone has the right to be a little irrational(right HDDVD fans?)
Just saying that what youre doing is the exact same thing as one of my jewish friends refusing to buy a BMW cause of the company's part in WW2.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:21 PM   #25  
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Anyways not ragging on you, Id probably do the same thing. Everyone has the right to be a little irrational(right HDDVD fans?)
Just saying that what youre doing is the exact same thing as one of my jewish friends refusing to buy a BMW cause of the company's part in WW2.
Well, having purchased a Betamax, Sony Beta camcorder and many Beta format movies (eventually throwing them all in the trash) many years ago, I understand the frustration the HD DVD people here now have.

I also understand why many Jews do not buy German products. But those feelings run much deeper than just boycotting a particular company. I hope you can appreciate the difference.
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:35 PM   #26  
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Iím not holding a grudge.
Oh, please!
If vowing "to boycott Toshiba product for the rest of" your life and being "personally glad that Toshiba lost the format war" does not constitute holding a grudge I can hardly imagine a better example . . . let's not play semantics here.

Oh, never mind . . . I'll revise my statement:
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Statement revised by Scottnot:
The most important thing that I ever learned about vowing to do something with the intent to harm or punish another entinty for the rest of my life or finding gladness in the loss of other entities is that it occupies a lot of space in my brain that could be put to far better use.
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you may not understand how serious it was for us at the time.
that's correct, I don't.

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Now the players may not be around today, but I believe itís important to discourage such things from happening again, and this is our (Navy ASW crewmembers) modest contribution to that effort.
Sorry, I don't see it as anything other than small minded bigotry with no beneficial purpose.
Who knows, maybe my standards are too high.
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:51 PM   #27  
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I certainly find nothing dishonorable about a private citizen choosing to do business or not do business with whichever companies he sees fit.
Nothing at all wrong with any private citizen choosing to do business or not do business with whichever company he sees fit for ANY reason. I have no problem with that.

However when that private citizen also chooses to broadcast his choice and his reasons, then I have every right to voice my opinion as well.

And when that private citizen chooses to define and defend his choice because he was a brave "U.S. Naval reservist flying P-3ís over the Pacific" . . . spending "many hours being a bit scared at 100 feet over dark waters at night" I again have the right to hold him to a higher standard of honor and behavior than seems he is capable of exhibiting.

Quite frankly, I think he dishonors the many who have served so much better than he ever did and who now live without bitterness to their former enemies.
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:27 AM   #28  
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Scottnot,
I really didnít intend this thread to be one beating up on HD DVD members. I tried to explain I was in your shoes back in the Betamax days. But I guess it has, based on your posts. Your bitterness and personal insults make it clear how angry you are.

In a way I feel sorry for you because youíve failed to grasp the meaning of objective, honest discussions that include respect for others even though there are differences of opinion without the need for personal name-calling. Iím quite a bit older than you and would have hoped you could display a bit more respect, if that sort of thing has any meaning to you.

So donít bother to respond, as there is no point in that and I will not discuss this with you any further.

But if anyone else has taken my comments that bitterly or was offended, I apologize. It was not my intent.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:38 AM   #29  
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I really didnít intend this thread to be one beating up on HD DVD members.
Hence the opening title - "Why I'm Glad Toshiba Lost the Format War".
I can't imagine that you could have thought your thread would not be inflammatory to some, if not many.

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I tried to explain I was in your shoes back in the Betamax days.
My shoes? What shoes? You are making some wild assumptions aren't you?
If you are making an assumption that I have ever owned a HD DVD - you're wrong.
If you are making an assumption that I ever supported HD DVD - wrong again.

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In a way I feel sorry for you because youíve failed to grasp the meaning of objective, honest discussions
huh?? really, no need to feel sorry for me.
Actually, I think I have a pretty good grasp of objectivity in particular. And, who's been dishonest??

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Iím quite a bit older than you and would have hoped you could display a bit more respect, if that sort of thing has any meaning to you.
Older than me? Really? How can you be so sure.
So, what's the deal, whoever is oldest is somehow entitled to "a bit more respect" from the other.
Is there some way that we prorate the amount of respect? I mean is it based on actual years, or percentage of age difference, or what? Please explain.

Looks to me like you have made a lot of assumptions about me, using the same sort of flawed logic that you made about Toshiba 20 years ago.

Last edited by Scottnot; 02-21-2008 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:23 PM   #30  
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I hear you on the sub issue and them selling crap to the Ruskies( I heard it was pattented submarine blade designs but then what do I know) but our government or should I say some employee's of the government and national citizens do this on a yearly basis. They would sell out anyone for a big buck!
This happened over 20 years ago and the appropriate people hopefully paid the price.
I wanted HDDVD to win the battle and who knows when we will see a nice price cut in BluRay players. I think the movie studios were bought and that whole industry ( including the recording industry. Look at the **it they voted on as grammy winners such as that wasted slob Amy Winehouse, 7 awards ) went **it to the wind.
Screw them all, tomorrow I am going up into the attic to break out my old RCA SelectaVision Video Disc collection!
Anyone for Superman II ?

P.S.
My father in law was in the Navy for 25 years, 3 tours of VietNam, 4 aircraft carriers and many homemade 8mm videos of gemini capsule's and 1 apollo capsule being returned to the aircraft carriers after splashdown!
GO NAVY

Last edited by syntfyd; 02-21-2008 at 12:26 PM.. Reason: ADDED MORE!
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