High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition Receivers, Recorders, Players, Tivos Discuss High Definition Receivers, Recorders, Players, Tivos, etc. Post reviews ask questions, etc.

What about Sony receivers?

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-28-2008, 02:58 PM   #46  
fmw
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
fmw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob Jones View Post
Why even bother to respond? Anyone who makes such a blanket statement is beyond all reason. I don't need a "professional review" to confirm what my senses tell me. The difference between receivers can be dramatic. Soundstage, detail, tonal balance are affected. Buy a $150 JVC receiver and stick it up against a $500 Marantz, Denon, or Onkyo for example. If you can't tell a difference, something is seriously wrong.
I'm not willing to spend money to prove it to you but, if you are, I'll do it. And I'll make a financial bet that, if I can't prove it to you scientifically, I'll reimburse your expenses. Take any JVC receiver and any $500 receiver of any brand you mention, bring them hear and I'll change your mind about your statement. What you believe is dramatic is actually non existent. Why even bother to respond?
fmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 03:00 PM   #47  
fmw
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
fmw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hatt View Post
I'm curious, can you list your audio system?
It has no bearing on any of this. I've owned audio systems ranging in price from a few hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars and the truth hasn't changed with any of them.
fmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 03:07 PM   #48  
HD Elitist
 
hatt's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: FL
Age: 44
Posts: 6,300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmw View Post
It has no bearing on any of this. I've owned audio systems ranging in price from a few hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars and the truth hasn't changed with any of them.

I don't see why you would of had a system that cost tens of thousands if it is no better than a cheapo. Do you mean just expensive speakers and a $99 receiver, Discman, and lamp cord?
hatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 03:26 PM   #49  
fmw
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
fmw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hatt View Post
Seems like a lot of other people feel the same way.

From You have to go to Audio Mags.

I'm not as extreme as that. I don't and didn't say all audio components sound alike. I didn't even say all amplifiers sound alike. What I said was that all receiver amplifiers sound alike. My objective testing has shown that almost all amplifiers sound alike, however. There are some that are not designed for transparency and color the sound. They sound a little different from transparent amps. Low powered single ended triodes are an example. I've had significant audibility differences between them and competent solid state amps.

Stereophile did a well conducted test once that found a slight audible difference between a solid state amp costing several hundred dollars and a high end tube amp costing several thousand. It was pretty slight. I believe the scores were in area of 62/38% audible difference - significant but not overwhelming.

I did a similar test to Stereophile's with comparable but different amps and did not get a significant result. Mine was 54/46% and that's pretty much random.

I have never been able to find an audible difference between any DAC's made since 1990 as long as the component in which it was implemented was a hi fi component. I've compared multi thousand dollar units to cheap hi fi units to no avail. Not once have I uncovered an audible difference. I've never been able to make jitter audible no matter how hard I've tried. I have found audible differences in DAC's made in the 1980's, however.

I've found one pair of interconnect cables that sounded different from all the others. It had enough inductance in its wound geometry to reduce high frequencies.

However, I've found audible differences in turntables and in phono cartridges. I've found them in FM tuners. I've found them in tape recorders of various configurations. I've even had a 100/0 % result from high end vs. low end cassette deck test. But I can tell you that I've found mostly subtle differences, rarely the kind of differences that you would consider obvious or dramatic.

Obviously, I haven't tested everything and sure haven't tested all receiver amps but I've tested enough mainstream ones to be confident in my statements. I'll put my money where my mouth is as long as someone else will do the same.
fmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 03:28 PM   #50  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmw View Post
Care to put some money up and let me prove you're wrong? It will be expensive.
Nothing to be gained by debating a fool. You believe what you want and I'll believe what my ears tell me. Buy yourself a $50.00 receiver and live happily ever after. Burr Browns and stuff like that don't really matter.
Jim Bob Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 03:30 PM   #51  
fmw
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
fmw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob Jones View Post
Nothing to be gained by debating a fool. You believe what you want and I'll believe what my ears tell me. Buy yourself a $50.00 receiver and live happily ever after. Burr Browns and stuff like that don't really matter.
OK, Bob. Burr Browns don't matter to me either. And please, stop insulting me. Take care.
fmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 03:49 PM   #52  
fmw
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
fmw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hatt View Post
I don't see why you would of had a system that cost tens of thousands if it is no better than a cheapo. Do you mean just expensive speakers and a $99 receiver, Discman, and lamp cord?
Because once upon a time I had the same beliefs that Jim Bob has. I thought I could believe my ears. I had very high end, expensive gear and I revelled in it. I was a typical high end audiophile. When I got involved in objective listening tests, I learned the truth about perceptual hearing and it changed my beliefs. I sold all that equipment and now I use competent but sensible equipment and spend my time listening to music rather than listening to equipment.

None of us have said anything about speakers here because there are audible differences between various speakers and those differences can be dramatic indeed. No need to do blind testing with speakers. Speakers are an area where you can make meaningful improvements in sound quality.

Ill give you a quick rundown on my equipment. I didn't mean to be rude. I may get the model numbers wrong because I don't pay much attention to them any more.

My home theater has a 42" LG LCD flat screen TV. The receiver is a Pioneer VSX92THX. Source components are Toshiba A2 HD-DVD, Sony BD-S300 player, an Oppo 980 player, a DirecTV HR 20 DVR and and Squeezbox audio streaming device that connects to my computer network. Speakers are Epos M15 for the mains, an old VMPS center, Tannoy surrounds and a B&W subwoofer. I can watch movies in HD and get excellent sound with room shaking LFE. My avatar is a photograph of that system.

My upstairs stereo system has a pair of old JBL full range towers, a Pioneer A-35R integrated amp, a Yamaha tuner, a Teac CD recorder, a Nakamichi cassette deck, two turntables (complicated) and another squeezebox. I use this system primarily when I exercise.

My bedroom TV sound is produced by a Teac stereo receiver and a Boston Sub/Sat 6 speaker system from the mid 90's. There is an old RCA DirecTV receiver there and a cheap Phillips DVD player. The receiver, by the way, has an incredible FM tuner section - really unbelievable for the $200 price of the unit. Upgrading that to HD will be my next project.

I think that's everything.

Last edited by fmw; 01-28-2008 at 04:07 PM..
fmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 08:33 PM   #53  
hd junkie
 
RedSIinPA's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Outside Phila.
Age: 41
Posts: 899
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmw View Post
Because once upon a time I had the same beliefs that Jim Bob has. I thought I could believe my ears. I had very high end, expensive gear and I revelled in it. I was a typical high end audiophile. When I got involved in objective listening tests, I learned the truth about perceptual hearing and it changed my beliefs. I sold all that equipment and now I use competent but sensible equipment and spend my time listening to music rather than listening to equipment.

None of us have said anything about speakers here because there are audible differences between various speakers and those differences can be dramatic indeed. No need to do blind testing with speakers. Speakers are an area where you can make meaningful improvements in sound quality.

Ill give you a quick rundown on my equipment. I didn't mean to be rude. I may get the model numbers wrong because I don't pay much attention to them any more.

My home theater has a 42" LG LCD flat screen TV. The receiver is a Pioneer VSX92THX. Source components are Toshiba A2 HD-DVD, Sony BD-S300 player, an Oppo 980 player, a DirecTV HR 20 DVR and and Squeezbox audio streaming device that connects to my computer network. Speakers are Epos M15 for the mains, an old VMPS center, Tannoy surrounds and a B&W subwoofer. I can watch movies in HD and get excellent sound with room shaking LFE. My avatar is a photograph of that system.

My upstairs stereo system has a pair of old JBL full range towers, a Pioneer A-35R integrated amp, a Yamaha tuner, a Teac CD recorder, a Nakamichi cassette deck, two turntables (complicated) and another squeezebox. I use this system primarily when I exercise.

My bedroom TV sound is produced by a Teac stereo receiver and a Boston Sub/Sat 6 speaker system from the mid 90's. There is an old RCA DirecTV receiver there and a cheap Phillips DVD player. The receiver, by the way, has an incredible FM tuner section - really unbelievable for the $200 price of the unit. Upgrading that to HD will be my next project.

I think that's everything.

props for making your points without getting out your spiked baseball bat. and they're good points.
RedSIinPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 09:58 PM   #54  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 167
Default

The speakers definitely make up the sound way more than the receiver brand does. Some receivers that do color the sound can make the same speakers sound different, but with a few adjustments most "Decent" $200+ receivers can be made to sound nearly the same.

The similarities in the receivers these days is primarily because a lot of the audio chips inside the receivers are all designed from the same blueprint and follow a strict specification layed out by a standard for whatever it is decoding. A lot of the chips inside even come from the same MFR's.
coderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 10:09 PM   #55  
Ever Eddy
 
edders's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,455
Default Different people hear different things

for me some receivers sound harsh and cold. Think this is mostly digital hash picked up in the amplifier section or possibly just really cheap output ic's.

Will have to say that the Onkyo products I have heard, and the two receivers of theirs I own, seem to have a smooth sound. Have noticed the same thing in HK's. To me their sound is warmer and cleaner in the mid to high range without the roughness that some brands have.

BUT, as I have said several times before on this forum...there is no right or wrong when it comes to audio. The beauty is in the ear of the listener.
edders is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


to What about Sony receivers?
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Okay, ONKYO Receiver Owners! Sign In and Tell Us About Your Gear! Peter Marlowe High Definition Receivers, Recorders, Players, Tivos 219 06-24-2018 01:47 AM
What about componet to HDMI converters? BowerR64 SD DVD Players and Discs 13 03-16-2011 11:45 AM
Problems getting Sony SAT-HD200 to work after temporarily disconnecting. Charles Branch DirecTV Forum 125 01-21-2008 01:27 AM
Sony VPL-HS20 LCD Projector borromini Projectors 9 09-11-2007 01:01 AM
whats better mitsubishi or sony (wdy65-1899.99) or (kds60a2000-2375.00) what to buy? kazykd Rear-Projection TVs 24 09-02-2006 01:04 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:51 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands