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What about Sony receivers?

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Old 01-28-2008, 07:07 AM   #31  
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Actually it depends entirely on the speakers. Receiver amplifiers all sound the same under most circumstances.
You're out of your fu#@#ng mind.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:33 AM   #32  
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You're out of your fu#@#ng mind.

Perhaps it would make more sense to debate the issue rather than simply insult me. I can prove my statement. Can you prove yours?
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:39 AM   #33  
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That is untrue as each different amplifier/receiver has it's own distinct/unique properties. Just read some professional reviews and you will see.
There aren't any "professional reviewers" in National Geographic but I can tell you that I've done years of bias controlled objective testing and my suggestion to you is that when a magazine reviewer provides a subjective opinion about sound quality it is roughly meaningless. Reviewers won't say that all receiver amps sound the same when operated normally because people like you don't want to hear it and wouldn't read the magazine.

So, I won't be spending any time reading audio magazines but I would suggest you get involved in a properly conducted objective test. To say that it will be opinion-altering is an understatement. Or you can believe what you like and let me believe what I like.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:14 PM   #34  
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:01 PM   #35  
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Perhaps it would make more sense to debate the issue rather than simply insult me. I can prove my statement. Can you prove yours?
It would be senseless to debate what my ears tell me.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:22 PM   #36  
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There aren't any "professional reviewers" in National Geographic but I can tell you that I've done years of bias controlled objective testing and my suggestion to you is that when a magazine reviewer provides a subjective opinion about sound quality it is roughly meaningless. Reviewers won't say that all receiver amps sound the same when operated normally because people like you don't want to hear it and wouldn't read the magazine.

So, I won't be spending any time reading audio magazines but I would suggest you get involved in a properly conducted objective test. To say that it will be opinion-altering is an understatement. Or you can believe what you like and let me believe what I like.
I'm curious, can you list your audio system?
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:37 PM   #37  
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So, I won't be spending any time reading audio magazines but I would suggest you get involved in a properly conducted objective test. To say that it will be opinion-altering is an understatement. Or you can believe what you like and let me believe what I like.
This is what I do for a living! There is a difference and if you can't find it then maybe you are doing the wrong tests.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:46 PM   #38  
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This is what I do for a living! There is a difference and if you can't find it then maybe you are doing the wrong tests.
Why even bother to respond? Anyone who makes such a blanket statement is beyond all reason. I don't need a "professional review" to confirm what my senses tell me. The difference between receivers can be dramatic. Soundstage, detail, tonal balance are affected. Buy a $150 JVC receiver and stick it up against a $500 Marantz, Denon, or Onkyo for example. If you can't tell a difference, something is seriously wrong.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:55 PM   #39  
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Seems like a lot of other people feel the same way.

From You have to go to Audio Mags.
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The Audio Critic, in its new reincarnation, has profoundly changed, mainly because the publisher/editor's beliefs have also changed. It's still very scientifically based, which I like and it also pulls no punches, which I really like. In fact, it's the only magazine I know that breaks "The Rules" listed below in a consistent manner.

The new problem for me, and most others, is the editor no longer believes that any component, other than loudspeakers, can make an audible difference (improvement) in the sound; a cheap (powerful) receiver will sound as good as any power amplifier; the same with CD players, cables, preamp line-stages etc. He states he can prove all this with ABX testing. He also feels analogue, meaning phono reproduction, is far inferior to any CD player and that "tubes are for boobs". No, I am not exaggerating.

While I concur about the prime importance of speakers and listening rooms, I don't agree with their position on tubes, phono reproduction, and everything else sounding the same, though I do feel that the sonic differences in most cases are greatly exaggerated. Frankly, if I felt the same way the editor did about audio components, I wouldn't even bother being involved with an audio magazine in the first place. It would be too boring, and besides; What's the point?

According to their own findings and philosophy, all you have to do to get the best sound possible is to buy the cheapest receiver, CD player and cables you can find, then buy your favorite loudspeaker with all the money you saved. Further, the only improvement you will ever be able make in the future is with a better pair of speakers. Everything else must be, in effect, perfect, because it all sounds exactly the same. There is also a continually angry, bitter and negative tone to the writing that may put one off.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:03 PM   #40  
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Default I am a newbie that just bought a Sony 4300

What is everyone's main issue with Sony. Is it bad or just overpriced? I have read about Onkyo's line-up, and agree they have have good prices, but I have also read they get very hot. Could this heat reduce the life?
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:09 PM   #41  
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I would agree that the sonic gap between modestly priced receivers has closed over the past 10-15 years. Howeer, my observations are based on listening to various receivers through the same loudspeakers. There are still audible differences. Certain "golden earred" reviewers have frequently exaggerated differences for their own selfish purposes. But they do exist.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:32 PM   #42  
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Default hmmm...

I accept all schools of thought on the topic, but once I brought home my Denon universal and let that do the decoding for my music, as opposed to listening to CDs in the HD-A2 over an optical cable (receiver decoding), I noticed the sound difference immediately.

Are we really contesting at least in part that all DACs produce the same sound? Interesting, although I'd beg to differ. I know I'd pick out the difference 100% of the time given the same music samples.

back to topic:

If I didn't care to think about how good Sony was, one thing I'd fall back to is, I've never (or should I say, rarely) see Sony receivers in the nice A/V shops in my area. I certainly see their TV's. And the same goes for their speakers. It's just not their forte. And for what they charge, everyone in here is dead on - a Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, or "lower end" Marantz would likely have better results. If nothing else, Sony's menus alone made me nuts when I worked with my dad's for a night. he returned it the next day for a Harmon.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:47 PM   #43  
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It would be senseless to debate what my ears tell me.
It would be with me, that's for sure.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:52 PM   #44  
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This is what I do for a living! There is a difference and if you can't find it then maybe you are doing the wrong tests.
You read audio magazines for a living? Actually it is you who are doing the wrong tests. It makes no sense at all to ignore placebo effect and believe you hear things that aren't there. Like I said, get involved in some bias controlled objective testing and you will know. Until then you are just kidding yourself - regardless of what you do for a living.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:53 PM   #45  
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I would agree that the sonic gap between modestly priced receivers has closed over the past 10-15 years. Howeer, my observations are based on listening to various receivers through the same loudspeakers. There are still audible differences. Certain "golden earred" reviewers have frequently exaggerated differences for their own selfish purposes. But they do exist.
Care to put some money up and let me prove you're wrong? It will be expensive.
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