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-   -   Toshiba in war with Blu-ray again with DVD extension (https://www.highdefforum.com/high-definition-news-informative-articles/73003-toshiba-war-blu-ray-again-dvd-extension.html)

DaMan 05-31-2008 12:06 PM

Toshiba in war with Blu-ray again with DVD extension
 
Toshiba is developing an extension to the DVD format which offers video quality comparable to that produced by Blu-ray & HD-DVD discs.

Toshiba in war with Blu-ray again with DVD extension

Toshiba plans to begin selling a DVD player based on the new technology within 6 months.

Codes20 05-31-2008 12:21 PM

They sound bitter. They should just invest in Blu-ray and introduce an inexpensive player for the masses.

rbinck 05-31-2008 12:24 PM

Here we go again!

BobY 05-31-2008 12:54 PM

They are referring to "Super Resolution Technology" (SRT) which we have been discussing on the forum for weeks:

http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=67118

It's a method of extracting high-resolution detail from lower resolution images by analyzing multiple frames and processing the differences between them. Those differences are invisible to the human eye, but are processed by the SRT algorithm into visible (and real) high-resolution details in the image.

The process is routinely used by NASA for astronomical imaging, not to mention the CIA and NSA--particularly for spy satellite imagery.

It's one of the main reasons Toshiba bought the Cell processor fabrication facilities from SONY last year. Toshiba is not bitter, this is purely business. Toshiba earns something like $150 Million a year of pure profit in royalties on DVD technology and would earn nothing on Blu-Ray. They have no reason at all to support Blu-Ray at this time and every reason in the world to continue pushing DVD technology, especially if, in the process, it slows Blu-Ray's growth.

The really ironic thing is, SONY used the money that Toshiba paid them for the Cell fab to help beat HD DVD, while Toshiba may use the Cell fab they bought with that money to help defeat Blu-Ray.

This is fun!

Actually, they could peacefully co-exist. SRT for people with existing DVD libraries who have no desire to spend a lot of money on more expensive Blu-Ray players and a drastically more limited library of more expensive Blu-Ray discs, and Blu-Ray for the videophile niche.

rbinck 05-31-2008 01:07 PM

So I guess this was an assumption by the author:
Quote:


Manufacturers have attempted to extend the lifespan of existing storage technologies by adding additional data which can be used by new players but ignored by older players. For example, hybrid Super Audio CDs (SACDs) can be played in traditional CD players but produce higher quality audio when played in special players.
That implies there would be additional data on the discs, but in reflection you are probably right and that is just wishful thinking.

BobY 05-31-2008 01:21 PM

The article is really flawed:

Quote:

One Japanese report appeared to suggest that the new technology would be able produce much higher-resolution images from existing DVDs, but did not address the apparent impossibility of this claim.
It's not only not "apparently impossible", TOSHIBA has been totally forthright is what they are doing and even demonstrated the technology publicly at CES.

That description of SACD is totally inaccurate.

SACD, in itself, is completely incompatible with CD, however most SACD's are hybrid discs that have an SACD layer and a CD layer (as the HD DVD hybrids would have had). A CD player plays the CD layer and doesn't even see the SACD layer.

tvine2000 05-31-2008 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY (Post 616720)
The article is really flawed:



It's not only not "apparently impossible", TOSHIBA has been totally forthright is what they are doing and even demonstrated the technology publicly at CES.

That description of SACD is totally inaccurate.

SACD, in itself, is completely incompatible with CD, however most SACD's are hybrid discs that have an SACD layer and a CD layer (as the HD DVD hybrids would have had). A CD player plays the CD layer and doesn't even see the SACD layer.

boby i saw on another forum and they are talking about dvd2.0

there talking about the toshiba sr players.it will play any sd dvd but if you want the to see a movie with sr you need 1.a sr player and 2.the discs with sr codecs.if true [and who knows]this sounds like a new version of hd dvd by toshiba.and if true this will cause more consomer anger and confusion,and if true about this so called sr disc,wheres the studio support.let me say i respect lot of peoples opitions around here you,lee etc. may i suggest you and others look into this,because i'm in shock ...i never heard of dvd2.0 and i'm sure in sprit of honest infomation which this forum stands for we all need to know is this all fud or are we going to get yet another format,which we need the sr player[which is ok] and these new format discs.so in the end if true will be replaceing our sd dvd anyways.and the price of these discs[and i don't know where they came up with this] are going to be around 33.00!if true we will have bd at 34.00-39.00 retail,sr dvd2.0 at 33.00 and sd dvd at 19.00 to 29.00!if all this true then one might as well go blu-ray because the whole idea of sr dvd is so one doesn't have to replace the dvds they have.let me make this clear... i saw this sr thing not to start a debate,but to report what saw.if this turns out to be false i'm gonna be pissed off that some person made up this stuff to humor himself,and cause alot fud around here and other forums.
i hope i'm not going againist forum rules so lets just say the forum that i saw this thing about dvd2.0 discs starts with the hi-def $&^%^&.

BobY 05-31-2008 07:01 PM

I have no idea whether DVD2.0 is real or not:

http://play.tm/wire/click/1790727

But if it is real, it's not a method of working HD into DVD, rather it incorporates some of the HDi interactive/network functionality developed for HD DVD into DVD. Nothing wrong with that. Why should only HD discs offer such features? It also adds a new level of DRM.

Will consumers or studios care or want that? Hmmm.

It specifies that video will be encoded as MPEG2 DVD, so it will be standard SD, but they also specify that HD resolution will be achieved by SRT, which is a post process on SD video.

While the HDi functionality would have to be encoded into DVD2.0 discs and wouldn't be found on pre-DVD2.0 discs, nor would the HDi features of a DVD2.0 disc work on pre-2.0 players, the SRT would work with any DVD.

It's not another format, though, it's just the addition of features to the existing DVD spec. Non-DVD2.0 discs would play (with SRT conversion to HD) on 2.0 players while DVD2.0 discs would play on all existing non-2.0 DVD players, you just wouldn't be able to access the added 2.0 features on a non-2.0 player. Really no different than the Profile situation with Blu-Ray.

If this is true, not surprisingly Toshiba and MicroSoft are involved, but surprisingly, so is Blu-Ray mainstay Panasonic!

tvine2000 05-31-2008 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY (Post 616826)
I have no idea whether DVD2.0 is real or not:

http://play.tm/wire/click/1790727

But if it is real, it's not a method of working HD into DVD, rather it incorporates some of the HDi interactive/network functionality developed for HD DVD into DVD. Nothing wrong with that. Why should only HD discs offer such features? It also adds a new level of DRM.

Will consumers or studios care or want that? Hmmm.

It specifies that video will be encoded as MPEG2 DVD, so it will be standard SD, but they also specify that HD resolution will be achieved by SRT, which is a post process on SD video.

While the HDi functionality would have to be encoded into DVD2.0 discs and wouldn't be found on pre-DVD2.0 discs, nor would the HDi features of a DVD2.0 disc work on pre-2.0 players, the SRT would work with any DVD.

It's not another format, though, it's just the addition of features to the existing DVD spec. Non-DVD2.0 discs would play (with SRT conversion to HD) on 2.0 players while DVD2.0 discs would play on all existing non-2.0 DVD players, you just wouldn't be able to access the added 2.0 features on a non-2.0 player. Really no different than the Profile situation with Blu-Ray.

If this is true, not surprisingly Toshiba and MicroSoft are involved, but surprisingly, so is Blu-Ray mainstay Panasonic!

yeh i forgot about panasonic,well that shows you one thing loyality
isn't one of the ce's good points.but i know $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

iDarren 05-31-2008 08:17 PM

Toshiba claims that this in development tech offers "video quality comparable to that produced by Blu-ray & HD-DVD discs", but the current examples of it that have been made avaiable to the general public do not measure up to this claim.

BobY 05-31-2008 09:21 PM

Sure, it's not real at this point and even then, wouldn't be able to create the equivalent image of a 1080p capture, but it doesn't have to.

It would make DVD's look better, they would be able to legitimately claim it converts DVD's to true HD resolution (as the CEA defines it) and would certainly offer a better investment for people who already had a lot of DVD's and who would never replace them all with BD's, even if they could.

It's not for people who want the best HD possible, any more than MP3's are for people who want the best audio possible. It's just another alternative that could well appeal to a sizable population.

dts1 06-01-2008 06:22 AM

i wonder if the current hd dvd players would be able to do this with a firmware up grade?

Chris Gerhard 06-01-2008 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codes20 (Post 616685)
They sound bitter. They should just invest in Blu-ray and introduce an inexpensive player for the masses.

No profit doing that and Toshiba has been an outspoken critic of the low priced consumer electronics, with minuscule margins. Unfortunately for Toshiba, HD DVD players could only be sold at a huge loss, but don't look for the company to try such nonsense again. Blu-ray and DVD are going to co-exist, this new method of DVD upscaling, may or may not be terrific, I can't tell from anything I have read or seen, but it will not make DVD look like Blu-ray so Blu-ray isn't going anywhere. It might be good enough for a large enough market segment that it will be a good business for Toshiba. Whether or not Toshiba joins in the Blu-ray market might depend on how well this does. I expect Toshiba to sit out for the life of Blu-ray.

HD DVD was a stupid idea considering the fact no other manufacturing company supported it, this technology is a great idea. Even the biggest Blu-ray fans like myself still use DVD.

Chris

Chris Gerhard 06-01-2008 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dts1 (Post 617079)
i wonder if the current hd dvd players would be able to do this with a firmware up grade?

No, but I wonder if the PS3 can be updated to use the technology. I believe the current HD DVD players are all there will ever be, no future players are coming period since LG dropped plans for a new Blu-ray/HD DVD player.

Chris

18 is # 1 06-01-2008 08:15 AM

For many of us that are unwilling to spend big bucks on BR, that could provide incentive to buy new equipment. I don't want to replace all my DVDs. And, I watch way more Dish than DVDs.
But it will have to be a pretty big improvement over my Oppo before I buy it!


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