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Toshiba in war with Blu-ray again with DVD extension

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Old 06-24-2008, 01:24 PM   #91  
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There is a fundamental difference with all of those systems, Roberto, with SRT. They are two dimentional whereas SRT is three dimentional. Two dimentional systems have to create detail out of whole cloth, SRT recovers detail from adjacent frames.
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:22 PM   #92  
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It could be used to remove compression artifacts, but that's not really what it's meant for. SRT is able to resolve high-resolution details in a lower resolution image--that what it's meant for.
Well that's disappointing. If my Star Trek DVD artifacts remain even after advanced SRT processing, then SRT is not going to be an attractive technology, because viewers will still see "mosquitos" buzzing-around the image and be displeased. Viewers will tend to prefer True HD discs without the mosquitos.

As example:

Even though I still only have an analog set, I can see a clear difference between regular DVD and HD-DVD. The DVD has annoying artifacts whereas the HD-DVD has none. Thus I prefer to get the HD discs wherever possible, not the SD discs.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:21 PM   #93  
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I don't have a dog in this fight. It doesn't matter to me whether SRT "fails" or not, but I would like an SRT player to get the best out of my library of over 100 DVD's, only three of which are available on Blu-Ray.

Toshiba wouldn't care if consumers stuck with DVD or opted for SRT DVD--they get the royalties in either case and they are already planning on developing SRT technology for their displays and STB's, so they are not relying on the success of SRT DVD players to pay the bill.

Of course Blu-Ray would be the choice for people who want the best HD currently available and are willing to pay for it even though the library is limited and more expensive. SRT would be for people who either don't see much of a difference between BD and DVD on their particular HDTV, or who don't think the difference is worth the cost.

SRT DVD players may "fail" to cause people to upgrade their players (I imagine few consumers would dump a perfectly good DVD player to get an SRT DVD player), but SRT could still become as ubiquitous as upconverting DVD players are now. It wasn't like there was a great consumer demand for upconverting DVD players that led CEMs to make them, it was just a logical and ultimately inexpensive extension to DVD, just like Component Video outputs and Progressive scan. In that sense, feature "extensions" of DVD players have been very successful.

Oh, and if they get their SRT working like others have, it will turn a 480i DVD into a true HD image with real HD details that you don't get with upconverting. BD will be better, but SRT will still produce an HD image according to the CEA definition of HD ("around 768 lines").
you say that bd has a limited titles,thats true right now,but give a few years and there will be more.i would think after 11 years of dvd the studio's would have a sense of what sold on dvd and what didn't.
theirs titles that should never see the light of day on bd,but thats a matter of taste.with
progessive scan and component you had to get a new tv and dvd player to get those features,now you have to get a hdtv and a bd player to get those features.with suc you will have get a new player and still get a hdtv unless you can get suc features with component ,if not ,they will do it with hdmi= a new hdtv if you don't have one.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:02 PM   #94  
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you say that bd has a limited titles,thats true right now,but give a few years and there will be more.i would think after 11 years of dvd the studio's would have a sense of what sold on dvd and what didn't.
theirs titles that should never see the light of day on bd,but thats a matter of taste.with
progessive scan and component you had to get a new tv and dvd player to get those features,now you have to get a hdtv and a bd player to get those features.with suc you will have get a new player and still get a hdtv unless you can get suc features with component ,if not ,they will do it with hdmi= a new hdtv if you don't have one.
The problem for BD is DVD already has the titles and lots of people are not going to re-buy them and lots of those titles (given there are between 80,000 and 90,000 total DVD titles) will not likely ever be available on BD.

SRT is no different than regular upconverters in the sense that both would be bought by people who already have HDTV's and if the people who buy them only hook them up to an SDTV, it really doesn't matter, they still bought them.

Bear in mind upconverting DVD players are selling very well now (and outselling standalone BD players currently). Q1 2008 sales of DVD players exceeded sales of DVD players in Q1 2007 and most of the increase was upconverting players, so people are buying them for some reason.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:12 PM   #95  
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Well that's disappointing. If my Star Trek DVD artifacts remain even after advanced SRT processing, then SRT is not going to be an attractive technology, because viewers will still see "mosquitos" buzzing-around the image and be displeased. Viewers will tend to prefer True HD discs without the mosquitos.

As example:

Even though I still only have an analog set, I can see a clear difference between regular DVD and HD-DVD. The DVD has annoying artifacts whereas the HD-DVD has none. Thus I prefer to get the HD discs wherever possible, not the SD discs.
A bad transfer is a bad transfer and the same holds true for Blu-Ray as well.

SRT increases real resolution of the image, nobody should expect it to fix encoding issues. That's not to say an SRT DVD player couldn't correct encoding issues, but that's not what SRT does, it would be a another algorithm to correct encoding problems.

BD's (and HD DVD's) superiority to DVD in reducing compression issues is strictly the result of using better codecs at higher bit rates, not because it's HD. SuperBit DVD's did exactly the same thing.

The upconversion of a DVD on a BD player would not fix compression issues on a bad DVD transfer, so it's really a moot point. The purpose of SRT is to make a consumer's existing DVD library look as good as possible. If the transfer is bad, the disc will look bad on a DVD player, an upconverting DVD player, on a BD player and probably on an SRT DVD player as well.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:23 AM   #96  
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BD's (and HD DVD's) superiority to DVD in reducing compression issues is strictly the result of using better codecs at higher bit rates, not because it's HD.
No ____ Sherlock.
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If the transfer is bad, the disc will look bad on a DVD player, an upconverting DVD player, on a BD player and probably on an SRT DVD player as well.
Hence the reason why people would want to dump their compression-riddled DVDs in favor of HD discs.... to eliminate the artifacts. (At least, that's my reason, since I only have an analog set.) DVD-SRT won't eliminate artifacts, but upgrading to Bluray will.
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:42 AM   #97  
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The problem for BD is DVD already has the titles and lots of people are not going to re-buy them and lots of those titles (given there are between 80,000 and 90,000 total DVD titles) will not likely ever be available on BD.

SRT is no different than regular upconverters in the sense that both would be bought by people who already have HDTV's and if the people who buy them only hook them up to an SDTV, it really doesn't matter, they still bought them.

Bear in mind upconverting DVD players are selling very well now (and outselling standalone BD players currently). Q1 2008 sales of DVD players exceeded sales of DVD players in Q1 2007 and most of the increase was upconverting players, so people are buying them for some reason.
Just an add on, Netflix has 90,000+ and there are a lot of titles that they don't even carry.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:21 AM   #98  
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Hence the reason why people would want to dump their compression-riddled DVDs in favor of HD discs.... to eliminate the artifacts. (At least, that's my reason, since I only have an analog set.) DVD-SRT won't eliminate artifacts, but upgrading to Bluray will.
If the title is available on Blu-ray. When are you going to make good on that statement?
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:26 AM   #99  
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You mean buy a Bluray player? Around the time the PS3 drops to $200. -or- When I can buy my favorite shows, Star Trek or Stargate or Galactica, on Bluray disc. (Whichever happens first.)

I'm definitely not buying a DVD-SRT which will still have the same flaw of being overly-compressed that current DVDs have.
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:32 AM   #100  
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You mean buy a Bluray player? Around the time the PS3 drops to $200. -or- When I can buy my favorite shows, Star Trek or Stargate or Galactica, on Bluray disc. (Whichever happens first.)

I'm definitely not buying a DVD-SRT which will still have the same flaw of being overly-compressed that current DVDs have.
He speaketh for many of us. They get a BR player down to $200 by Christmas, and I predict they're going to be a hot item.
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:17 PM   #101  
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No ____ Sherlock.
Hey, you were the one who asked the question, I was just answering it, Watson...

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Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
Hence the reason why people would want to dump their compression-riddled DVDs in favor of HD discs.... to eliminate the artifacts. (At least, that's my reason, since I only have an analog set.) DVD-SRT won't eliminate artifacts, but upgrading to Bluray will.
Good luck getting that Blu-Ray player to help with those artifact-laden DVD's.

Oh, but then you could just get whatever titles look bad on DVD in Blu-Ray instead. Let's see, 90,000+ titles versus 600+ titles. That should only take about 10 years or so. If ever.

So how does ST: DS9 look on Blu-Ray? And won't that have the same problem in the HD conversion that ST:TNG has, i.e. the first few years had the effects created in the video domain, not the film domain or CGI, so the masters don't exist in HD resolution?

This is getting inane. SRT is not for people who want the best HD and are willing to pay for it. It's for people who already have lots of DVD's and aren't interested in spending money re-buying movies in a more expensive format (in the unlikely event the films they want are actually available in Blu-Ray), when they can just watch their existing library, and the huge DVD library at their video store or Netflix in HD.

BTW, there is nothing that precludes an SRT DVD player from improving compression artifacts in DVD's, it just wouldn't be the SRT algorithm doing the work. There are plenty of mediocre BD transfers out there, too (remember "House of Flying Artifacts"). BD players won't fix them.
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:49 PM   #102  
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Some will never get it...
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:27 AM   #103  
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He speaketh for many of us. They get a BR player down to $200 by Christmas, and I predict they're going to be a hot item.
Again, I have to ask. Why are people so gung ho for a ~$200 BD player? What you'll get will be a piece of garbage. It'll be the equivalent of buying a $40 DVD player at the supermarket. If you want the technology, pay a price for it. Even the PS3 is decent in the PQ dept and not that expensive. I'm guessing people here aren't flocking to the Denon BD player at $2000.
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:45 PM   #104  
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I'm guessing people here aren't flocking to the Denon BD player at $2000.
No doubt your "guess" is correct. Such boutique players are for philes only. Earth people don't need them.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:15 PM   #105  
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No doubt your "guess" is correct. Such boutique players are for philes only. Earth people don't need them.
Yet they sell them in enough quantities to have them for sale!
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