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Toshiba in war with Blu-ray again with DVD extension

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Old 06-01-2008, 08:18 AM   #16  
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
Unfortunately for Toshiba, HD DVD players could only be sold at a huge loss, but don't look for the company to try such nonsense again.
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HD DVD was a stupid idea considering the fact no other manufacturing company supported it, this technology is a great idea. Even the biggest Blu-ray fans like myself still use DVD.
From your posts we see that you are still a Toshiba and HD-DVD basher/hater. Enough already, it's over.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:26 AM   #17  
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Any possibility to intigrate this new technology With blu-ray?
I know the development of multi format players was dropped when the studios stopped backing hd-dvd but it would work for me if I could play my vast library of dvds on a blu-ray player that could upgrade SD to HD quality.

In Chinese philosophy, yin and yang (simplified Chinese: 阴阳; traditional Chinese: 陰陽; pinyin: yīnyŠng) are generalized descriptions of the antitheses or mutual correlations in human perceptions of phenomena in the natural world, combining to create a unity of opposites.

yin and yang
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:10 PM   #18  
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Any possibility to intigrate this new technology With blu-ray?
I know the development of multi format players was dropped when the studios stopped backing hd-dvd but it would work for me if I could play my vast library of dvds on a blu-ray player that could upgrade SD to HD quality.
This is the only thing that makes sense IMO. If you are going to have an expensive DVD player you might as well include BD playback.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:59 PM   #19  
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The PS3 might do it, as it could possibly be a firmware upgrade, but you're not going to find BD standalones adding more cost--they already cost too much--especially adding cost for the purpose of improving SD. It's not in their best interest to make people think SD can look like HD--it would be a very difficult marketing position.

BTW, once the ASIC's are done, SRT DVD players would not be expensive. They don't need new, expensive optics, new expensive laser diodes and new video and audio codecs like BD does--it could just be a cheap ASIC post-processor and DRAM hanging on the output of a dirt cheap DVD player.

There is no question that Toshiba intends to develop this processor, as they want to use it in HDTV's and settop boxes, and it's the reason they bought the Cell fab from SONY.

And, just for Chris's sake, I have to point out that even after writing down all the costs of the development, manufacturing, sales and marketing of the HD DVD program, Toshiba's huge loss was only a fraction of what SONY lost (and is continuing to lose) on PS3/BD .
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:14 PM   #20  
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The PS3 might do it, as it could possibly be a firmware upgrade, but you're not going to find BD standalones adding more cost--they already cost too much--especially adding cost for the purpose of improving SD. It's not in their best interest to make people think SD can look like HD--it would be a very difficult marketing position.

BTW, once the ASIC's are done, SRT DVD players would not be expensive. They don't need new, expensive optics, new expensive laser diodes and new video and audio codecs like BD does--it could just be a cheap ASIC post-processor and DRAM hanging on the output of a dirt cheap DVD player.

There is no question that Toshiba intends to develop this processor, as they want to use it in HDTV's and settop boxes, and it's the reason they bought the Cell fab from SONY.

And, just for Chris's sake, I have to point out that even after writing down all the costs of the development, manufacturing, sales and marketing of the HD DVD program, Toshiba's huge loss was only a fraction of what SONY lost (and is continuing to lose) on PS3/BD .
Boby, you would be dangerous if you could see past your agenda.
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:59 PM   #21  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobY View Post
The PS3 might do it, as it could possibly be a firmware upgrade, but you're not going to find BD standalones adding more cost--they already cost too much--especially adding cost for the purpose of improving SD. It's not in their best interest to make people think SD can look like HD--it would be a very difficult marketing position.

BTW, once the ASIC's are done, SRT DVD players would not be expensive. They don't need new, expensive optics, new expensive laser diodes and new video and audio codecs like BD does--it could just be a cheap ASIC post-processor and DRAM hanging on the output of a dirt cheap DVD player.

There is no question that Toshiba intends to develop this processor, as they want to use it in HDTV's and settop boxes, and it's the reason they bought the Cell fab from SONY.

And, just for Chris's sake, I have to point out that even after writing down all the costs of the development, manufacturing, sales and marketing of the HD DVD program, Toshiba's huge loss was only a fraction of what SONY lost (and is continuing to lose) on PS3/BD .
You don't have to point out that Sony has lost money selling the PS3 at a bargain price. Sony has something to show for their losses, PS3 game profit potential and Blu-ray videodisc profit potential. It will take some years to know whether or not the PS3/Blu-ray investment was worthwhile for Sony. We know the answer already to whether or not Toshiba has any potential with HD DVD.

Chris
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:07 PM   #22  
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My agenda has been clearly stated repeatedly over the last two years and is pretty straightforward:

I want access to a large library of movies in HD for a reasonable price. If it's going to be physical media and not VOD or downloads, then that is going to require low cost discs and low cost players which achieve mass-market penetration. Even LaserDisc, which was a modestly successful niche format, never came close to the number of movies available on DVD (although LD is dramatically ahead of BD in terms of available titles).

My opinion, based on 29 years of professional experience in the CE field (not to mention years as a hobbyist before graduation) is that Blu-Ray is uniquely ill-suited to accomplish the desired goal and is destined to be a niche format like SACD because it puts the profits and agendas of CE companies (mostly SONY) and studios way ahead of the desires of consumers.

No CE product has ever succeeded with priorities that are so far out of balance and features that are of such minor value to most consumers compared to price. SONY has failed so many times in trying to get consumers interested in their better-than-necessary, more expensive, proprietary formats, that it's hard for me to see how Blu-Ray will ever satisfy my agenda. Particularly as long as the manufacturers are more interested in maximizing their profit margins than establishing a mass-success format in the time frame necessary, before it gets derailed by alternate, more cost-effective technologies that better satisfy consumers' desires.

But the BDA has specifically stated they have no intention of doing the things that are necessary. If they get the player prices to $200 and disc prices routinely to $12-$15 dollars and convince more replicators to invest the Millions of Dollars necessary to produce Blu-Ray by Q4 2008, then I think they can make a go of it, otherwise it has "SACD" written all over it to me. Ridiculous? Please note that there are far more SACD players in the world than BD players and far more SACD titles in the world than BD titles, yet SACD is a dead format, dumped even by creator SONY.

Yes, it's only my opinion, but it's based on experience and an understanding of the consumer market that has made my career very successful. Am I going to trust BD zealots instead of my own instincts and experience? Hardly. There are still SACD zealots, too.

Basically, I'm working to overcome the pretense that everything is just peachy with Blu-Ray, so that either the BDA gets their butt in gear to correct the problems and actually tries to succeed with consumers, or so that Blu-Ray dies a quick death in order to make room for something that can be successful.

Last edited by BobY; 06-01-2008 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:14 PM   #23  
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See hatt, BobY's already dangerous...and correct too.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:18 PM   #24  
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
You don't have to point out that Sony has lost money selling the PS3 at a bargain price. Sony has something to show for their losses, PS3 game profit potential and Blu-ray videodisc profit potential. It will take some years to know whether or not the PS3/Blu-ray investment was worthwhile for Sony. We know the answer already to whether or not Toshiba has any potential with HD DVD.

Chris
"Potential is interesting, performance is everything".

And we'll never know if the main goal for HD DVD by Toshiba and the DVD Forum was simply to hobble Blu-Ray and protect their DVD income stream.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:19 PM   #25  
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My agenda has been clearly stated repeatedly over the last two years and is pretty straightforward:

I want access to a large library of movies in HD for a reasonable price.

But the BDA has specifically stated they have no intention of doing the things that are necessary. If they get the player prices to $200 and disc prices routinely to $12-$15 dollars...
Since Wal-mart sells most of their DVDs, other than the bargain bin, at $12+ it looks like you are just wondering around Oz looking for the Wizard. "I want something for nothing"
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:22 PM   #26  
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See hatt, BobY's already dangerous...and correct too.
How can speculation be correct until the speculation time frame has passed? I'm sure Boby was speculating plenty about how popular HD DVD would become, was he correct then?
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:23 PM   #27  
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Lest we forget, a great many consumers had no interest in either HD DVD or BD.
They have been perfectly content with upscaled DVD content.
The price is a no-brainer, and the quality is more than satisfactory.

So, let's add to that the new Toshiba chip to make it even better at a modicom of cost to the consumer and the deal sounds pretty sweet and smart as well.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:31 PM   #28  
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See hatt, BobY's already dangerous...and correct too.
I don't consider myself dangerous, just influential , but you'll have to take my word for that. Seriously, if my clients didn't trust my opinions and follow my recommendations (to successful conclusions), my career would be untenable.

Just to give you an idea of the kind of cost reductions that come from ASIC's, one design I worked on started with a multiprocessor video DSP daughter board with about $120 worth of parts (raw cost)--about $350 cost adder at retail. Once the algorithms were refined, we hard-coded them first into a $50 Field-Programmable Gate Array to prove the concepts, then it went into production as a $3.75 (in quantity) Mask-Programmed Gate Array--about a $12 cost adder at retail, plus a little more for the PCB real estate.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:34 PM   #29  
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Since Wal-mart sells most of their DVDs, other than the bargain bin, at $12+ it looks like you are just wondering around Oz looking for the Wizard. "I want something for nothing"
So you're agreeing with me?

Few consumers are going to be willing to pay much more than what a DVD costs just to get a better picture.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:41 PM   #30  
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So you're agreeing with me?

Few consumers are going to be willing to pay much more than what a DVD costs just to get a better picture.
They paid more for DVD v VHS.
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