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-   -   Upconversion players vs HD DVD, Blur-ray (https://www.highdefforum.com/high-definition-news-informative-articles/54576-upconversion-players-vs-hd-dvd-blur-ray.html)

jakebizz 10-29-2007 10:13 PM

Upconversion players vs HD DVD, Blur-ray
 
Jupiter says that consumers may not embrace either HD DVD or Blu-ray. Instead, upconversion may be good enough for many. Don't know, but interesting.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/jupiter102907.htm

Chris Gerhard 10-30-2007 07:50 AM

That is as good a guess as any. Even some early adopters of both next generation formats like myself use DVD far more than both next generation formats combined. All I see is two formats fighting for a tiny market unless HD DVD does the honorable thing and drops out since they are running a distant second in a rather lame race.

Chris

BobY 10-30-2007 08:29 AM

I'm sure it would be the "honorable" thing for the format that is best positioned for the consumer, with the best price/performance ratio and the most features and most complete products to bow out. :rolleyes:

Especially on the verge of the holiday season where they are far better positioned for sales.

One might also ask why the BDA didn't do the honorable thing and back out after HD DVD beat them to market with a better product at a lower price, instead of Sony opting to lose Billions of dollars in an attempt to artificially stimulate BD sales with the PS3.

We'll see who does the "honorable" thing after January when the impact of sub-$200 HD DVD players kicks in.

I suspect it will be business as usual until a few more studios realize they are throwing money away by supporting BD and not supporting HD DVD as well. I think those studios already have contingency plans if HD DVD cleans up over Christmas.

unotis 10-30-2007 10:08 AM

I admire Chris's unflinching support of Blu-Ray and his canned well written reasons might convince some n00bs and he probably would be celebrated at www.bluray.com if they would stop banning everyone with any reasonable mindset that posts there, even ones who support Blu-Ray.

At least we don't do that here (although he does get some flack from a few members).

SLedford 10-30-2007 10:14 AM

No honor, just $$$
 
How would you like to be the CEO of Toshiba or Sony trying to explain how you chose to do the "honorable" thing for the benefit of the high def format by conceding to the other side?

Stockholders care about sales & profits, not how well high def does against SD-DVD, and whichever side "wins" will get billions in royalties before another product comes along to replace HD-DVD and/or BD. The opportunity for honor was over when they didn't work something out before either product hit the market.

JMCIII 11-18-2007 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakebizz (Post 402366)
Jupiter says that consumers may not embrace either HD DVD or Blu-ray. Instead, upconversion may be good enough for many. Don't know, but interesting.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/jupiter102907.htm



I'm afraid I would ahve to agree based on the reaction to the two better audio formats acceptance by the general public. SACD is a niche product, DVD-A is dead in the water. Why, because the great unwashed didn't hear enough difference (not to mention being, in DVD-A's case, user friendly) to make them want to part with any more money for the new equipment.

Most folks today feel that DVD is good enough. And upsampled DVD is all they need. I see HD-DVD and (especially) Blue Ray - given Sony's track record of late with propicitary formats that don't take off - going the same way.

But I hope I'm wrong.

mshulman 11-18-2007 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLedford (Post 402783)
How would you like to be the CEO of Toshiba or Sony trying to explain how you chose to do the "honorable" thing for the benefit of the high def format by conceding to the other side?

Sony had an easy out. Couldn't Sony have pushed for HD DVD and the Triple layer Twin to be used? Any of the manufacturers could have (and should/should have) pushed for this. You get HD DVD Twins in people's homes, they start building a high def collection, they start to think about buying a high def TV. Then a player to go with it.

Simple thinking - give them yet another reason to adopt HD and they are more likely too. Sony would gain from this - maybe not as much as they would from blu-ray, but they could have still kept the games on blu-ray discs.

BobY 11-18-2007 07:04 PM

It's a bit Apples and Oranges comparing SACD/DVD-A with HD.

CD sounded plenty good enough to most people and there was no consumer push for better audio systems that would allow anyone to hear the difference between CD and SACD/DVD-A.

There is an enormous marketing push in CE for HD displays, to the point where it won't be long before you simply can't buy a display that isn't HD unless it's a bottom-of-the-barrel small screen. The difference between SD and HD is pretty obvious and if it doesn't cost any more to get HD, likely that's what consumers will do.

AFAIK, standalone SACD players were mostly high-end gear and the typical reasonably-priced SACD/DVD-A players were marketed as DVD players, which didn't even register on the radar of typical consumers buying audio players. A very poor marketing approach which delivered the obvious results.

Bleedgreen71 11-18-2007 08:57 PM

We are getting very close to being not able to find an SD set. In the last year sears has reduced its assortment of Sd sets from upwards of 30-40 models to 12-20 and most of them are sylvania brand. Who knows what another two years of HD price cuts will bring. how long will it be before you can't buy a crt set? Im gonna say 3-4 years at the most.

SLedford 11-18-2007 09:27 PM

SD sets
 
I went to Walmart & Best Buy after church and most of the Walmart (and all of the BB) televisions are high def. Walmart even has some 19" HD LCD sets for under $400.

So Bleedgreen71 is correct - it is hard to find an analog set now unless you buy one of the DVD/TV combos at Walmart. There were a number of upconverting DVD players for sale at Walmart for between $150 to $199, the regular price of the A2. There were no HD-DVD players available at Walmart and only 1 (besides the demo) at BB. There was a pallet stacked head high of BD players at BB.

Based upon what these two chains are stocking, I think that HD television is going to take off before the analog cutoff in 2009.

Type A 11-19-2007 04:21 PM

Im just amazed what a difference a couple of years has made. HDTV has been around for a decade...and has languished until just recently.

ah802 11-19-2007 06:07 PM

Texas Showdown?
 
This article is close to 'spot on', but I'll take exception with up converters over HD players, when the players are not much more, handle the up conversion... plus play HD, so where's the logic?

I am a bit surprised we haven't seen more of a movement toward multi format disks, but I guess with all the politickings.. no one wants to show their hand yet.

JMCIII 11-19-2007 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY (Post 420102)
It's a bit Apples and Oranges comparing SACD/DVD-A with HD.

Maybe, but I don't see it that way at all. Both are hi-rez formats. Both claim to offer more than what is now available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY (Post 420102)
CD sounded plenty good enough to most people and there was no consumer push for better audio systems that would allow anyone to hear the difference between CD and SACD/DVD-A.

There is an enormous marketing push in CE for HD displays, to the point where it won't be long before you simply can't buy a display that isn't HD unless it's a bottom-of-the-barrel small screen. The difference between SD and HD is pretty obvious and if it doesn't cost any more to get HD, likely that's what consumers will do.

There's was no consumer push for HDTV either - it was forced on us by the goverment (who are repaying a debt owed to big business and not out of any noble ideals). Your point about cost is - to me - the overriding factor in HD's overall acceptance. Right now the cost is still WAAAAAYYYYY to high, much as SACD's hardware/software were. HD-DVD is at least smart enough to try to get the price down on both the hardware and software end. But until the TV's, players and most importantly software are priced at what SDTV, DVD players and DVD movies are priced at now the general public will be generally apathetic to it.[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY (Post 420102)
AFAIK, standalone SACD players were mostly high-end gear and the typical reasonably-priced SACD/DVD-A players were marketed as DVD players, which didn't even register on the radar of typical consumers buying audio players. A very poor marketing approach which delivered the obvious results.

Not true. My first SACD player cost me all of $180 and it outperformed a $1000 CD player hands down. But overall, you are mostly correct.

But what doomed SACD and DVD-A was the format war. The same thing will do in HD-DVD and/or Blue Ray.

Scottnot 11-19-2007 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMCIII (Post 420983)
There's was no consumer push for HDTV . . .

How true, but there has hardly been an inovative product that resulted from simple consumer demand. Rather it has been technilogical inovation and more recently marketing that has in just about all cases created consumer demand where none existed.

Quote:

. . . it was forced on us by the goverment (who are repaying a debt owed to big business and not out of any noble ideals).
Even a cursory review of the history of television over the last 50 years would certainly not bear out this conclusion. Once the PAL system became established throughout most of Western Europe it became painfully obvious that the NTSC was inferior and doomed. In more recent years the development of technology standards and products in various parts of the world have made it clear that, if nothing else, the US would be a laughing stock in the realm of consumer technology if the issue of having the world's worst television system was not addressed. Like just about any other country that I can think of, the airwaves and television are under the auspicies of some branch of the government, so it became necessary for the FCC to address the issue, which they did. Now, it certainly seems that most consumers have embraced this new technology, and I rather doubt that very many would view it as some evil that was forced on them by their government for ignoble reasons, rather out of the necessity that it actually was/is.

oblioman 11-20-2007 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottnot (Post 421054)
How true, but there has hardly been an inovative product that resulted from simple consumer demand. Rather it has been technilogical inovation and more recently marketing that has in just about all cases created consumer demand where none existed.


Even a cursory review of the history of television over the last 50 years would certainly not bear out this conclusion. Once the PAL system became established throughout most of Western Europe it became painfully obvious that the NTSC was inferior and doomed. In more recent years the development of technology standards and products in various parts of the world have made it clear that, if nothing else, the US would be a laughing stock in the realm of consumer technology if the issue of having the world's worst television system was not addressed. Like just about any other country that I can think of, the airwaves and television are under the auspicies of some branch of the government, so it became necessary for the FCC to address the issue, which they did. Now, it certainly seems that most consumers have embraced this new technology, and I rather doubt that very many would view it as some evil that was forced on them by their government for ignoble reasons, rather out of the necessity that it actually was/is.

How true! The CE industry along with the OTA's were granted 10 years to make the transition. They did not comply. The FCC granted another 3 years - how is the analog to digital being forced upon the public? What should have happened in 2006 is now set for 2009.


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