High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition News & Informative Articles Get the Latest High Definition News & Informative Articles Here! Please post newsworthy information here only! This forum is NOT for your first post. Thank you!

LG Wins DTV Converter Box Certification

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2007, 05:02 PM   #1  
Muscle Cars Forever!
Thread Starter
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,091
Arrow LG Wins DTV Converter Box Certification

LG Wins DTV Converter Box Certification

Quote:
An LG spokesman said the final selling price on the converter box has not been set, but is expected be in the $60 area.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6487995.html
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 10:08 PM   #2  
Sony KD34XS955
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pointe-Claire QC
Posts: 2,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
LG Wins DTV Converter Box Certification



http://www.twice.com/article/CA6487995.html
Thanks for the link, Lee.

Looks promising. However, there is one "allowable" output that I would have liked to see included: viz. S-Video.

Note: "Allowable" features are ones that are not in the NTIA list of required features but do not disqualify the Box from certification for the rebate coupon program. (RF and composite-video output are required features).

OTOH, there are some features that are "not allowed" and disqualify any box with them from certification for the rebate coupon program. The rationale is that they unnecessarily increase the cost. Component-video and HDMI are examples of "not allowed" features.
BrianO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 07:13 AM   #3  
Muscle Cars Forever!
Thread Starter
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,091
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianO View Post
Thanks for the link, Lee.

Looks promising. However, there is one "allowable" output that I would have liked to see included: viz. S-Video.

Note: "Allowable" features are ones that are not in the NTIA list of required features but do not disqualify the Box from certification for the rebate coupon program. (RF and composite-video output are required features).

OTOH, there are some features that are "not allowed" and disqualify any box with them from certification for the rebate coupon program. The rationale is that they unnecessarily increase the cost. Component-video and HDMI are examples of "not allowed" features.
Thanks for the heads up - good to know.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 07:59 AM   #4  
What's all this, then?...
 
BobY's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,197
Default

Why does our government always meddle in things that don't concern them? Why do they get to decide what features are "too much"? How do they know what features will "unneccessarily increase the cost"?

The government can certainly decide what they are willing to pay for and/or subsidize, but if someone can build a box with HDMI and Component Video on it for the same price or less, why shouldn't they be allowed to participate? If the consumer wants extra features, why shouldn't they be allowed to pay more if it doesn't cost the government a cent?

If someone builds a box that is too expensive, with features that consumers don't want, then they will lose as a result of market forces, not because of governmental interference.

Does anyone need a better example of why we don't want government controlled health care? "I'm sorry, that kidney transplant will unnecessarily increase the cost of your healthcare--there's no problem for you to be on dialysis for the rest of your life. It doesn't matter if you're willing to pay the difference, that wouldn't be fair to those who can't afford a new kidney."
BobY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 09:12 AM   #5  
Administrator
 
rbinck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 16,971
Default

I think the government feels like by limiting the outputs there will be fewer coupons redemed since the only value for the box would be for analog TVs. Thus saving taxpayer money.
rbinck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 09:30 AM   #6  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbinck View Post
I think the government feels like by limiting the outputs there will be fewer coupons redemed since the only value for the box would be for analog TVs. Thus saving taxpayer money.
Right, and while I have great sympathy for BobY's angst, it should be kept in mind that the only purpose for certification is to insure coupons are redemed appropriately. Again, this whole digital switchover has been a long and difficult road, and, by and large, I think the officials and agencies have acted pretty responsibly and with consideration for "the common good".
billinprinceto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 09:49 AM   #7  
What's all this, then?...
 
BobY's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,197
Default

As long as a product gets certified, then that will assure the coupons are redeemed appropriately. They don't have to certify all of the features of a product, only that a product meets the minimum requirements.

What we are talking about here is an arbitrary decision of what gets certified, most likely for the reason Rbinck gave, to try to cut down on the number of people who actually redeem coupons by forcing limited products on them. Exactly how are they going to stop someone from redeeming a coupon whether they need the box or not? Are they going to go into people's home to verify every coupon user has *only* an analog TV? The whole approach is fraught with potential for misuse and limiting features isn't going to change that.

They could just as easily have said, "We don't care what features you put on these boxes beyond the requirements, but the box can't cost any more than X dollars or you can't use the coupon".

Anyhow, it's all Orwellian. The govenrment is taking RF spectrum away from taxpayers so that it can auction the bandwidth off and make money. In order not to have a revolt on their hands when TV's go dark, the government is going to pay for taxpayers to upgrade to digital reception. Using who's money? The Taxpayers' money of course! And just to make sure everyone is treated "fairly", they mandate a mediocre product, rather than mandating a price and letting the product fall where it may.

Last edited by BobY; 10-09-2007 at 09:55 AM..
BobY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 10:23 AM   #8  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobY View Post
They could just as easily have said, "We don't care what features you put on these boxes above and beyond the requirements, but the box can't cost any more than X dollars or you can't use the coupon".
Hey, I like that!!!

But then, you can bet your bippy . . . someone would be on here concerned about "government price setting" and "interfering with free markets". It's a "no win" for the "government".

Quote:
Anyhow, it's all Orwellian.
I like that too.

Quote:
The govenrment is taking RF spectrum away from existing users so that it can auction the bandwidth off and make money.
My understanding is that we (existing users) have always been allocated the spectrum from 54mHz-88mHz (VHF ch2-6), 174mHz-216mHz (VHF ch7-13), and 470mHz-890mHz (UHF ch14-83).

My understanding was that all of these frequencies will remain in the broadcast television domain. A little research turns up that according to our government, "Converting to DTV will also free up parts of the scarce and valuable broadcast airwaves. Those portions of the airwaves can then be used for other important services, such as advanced wireless and public safety services (for example, police, fire departments, and rescue squads)." Hardly sounds like a money making auction, but perhaps I have been misled.

In any event, what "we" are left with is better quality televison, greater channel capacity and enhanced services.

Quote:
In order not to have a revolt on their hands when TV's go dark, the government is going to pay for taxpayers to upgrade to digital reception. Using who's money? The Taxpayers' money of course! And just to make sure everyone is treated "fairly", they mandate a mediocre product, rahter than mandating a price and letting the product fall where it may.
My OPINION (admittedly, only one opinion) is that the gov acted proactively to resolve a very minor issue affecting only a very small and conceivably insignificant segmement of the population. The result is that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

ANY solution to the 6mHz analog channel frequency and meager NTSC (525 line) substandard (by world standards) capability of broadcast television was bound to fail to please everyone. Frankly, I think "they" did a pretty good job.
Imperfect - yep - but, hell, even I'm not perfect.
billinprinceto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 11:33 AM   #9  
Administrator
 
rbinck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 16,971
Default

Most estimates I've seen show the government will receive 4 to 1 dollars over the cost of the coupons in revenues from the auction. Who pays the cost of the bandwidth allocated to the fire, rescue and such? It will be the equipment manufacturers as I understand it like they pay now for other bands. This will in effect allow more units to be sold as the bands get less crowded. That is the theory anyway. Several manufacturers have already gotten on the list.

As far as the revolt goes, all one has to do is look to the low income people that would be the source of the revolt. Their congressmen were the source of the legislation that created the coupons. Traded their votes for the bandwidth being reassigned for the coupons. Really, I agree with bill, overall they did a great job of handleing this.

As far as the idea of the box having a maximum cost regardless of the features, the issue there was still it had the potential of causing more coupons to be redemed. By limiting the features to SD output they would keep people using the coupons to get a discount on an ATSC tuner. These people would otherwise just pass on the box.

So BobY, if they could have a HD output, would you use your coupon to get one? Will you get a SD only box? Things that make you go hmmmm.
rbinck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 12:19 PM   #10  
What's all this, then?...
 
BobY's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,197
Default

No, of course not. But by doing what they did, the government automatically rules out any useful innovations that might have been developed in an effort to make one box more desirable than another.

They could also have saved tax dollars by only offering the coupons to low income individuals. There are lots of ways they could have saved money on this other than limiting features and lots of ways it can still be abused.

Here's a scenario, when the TV's go dark--oops not enough boxes are available to meet demand. Meanwhile, people have been buying up coupons from those who don't need them and hoarding converter boxes so they can sell them on the black market.

Whatever. Maybe the government *did* handle it as well as they could have (but it is, after all, a situation of their own making).

I still predict it's going to be a disaster as those most likely to need a converter box are the low-income and the elderly, who especially aren't going to have a clue what to do when their TV goes dark and will start calling their congressmen. Take away their Social Security and they'll vote you out of office, Take away their TV's and they'll kill you.
BobY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 01:23 PM   #11  
Administrator
 
rbinck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 16,971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobY View Post
Here's a scenario, when the TV's go dark--oops not enough boxes are available to meet demand. Meanwhile, people have been buying up coupons from those who don't need them and hoarding converter boxes so they can sell them on the black market.
That could happen regardless of the functionality of the boxes.
rbinck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 01:58 PM   #12  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobY View Post
Whatever. Maybe the government *did* handle it as well as they could have (but it is, after all, a situation of their own making).
They had to do SOMETHING . . . imagine the rest of the world going HD and the US still tied to 525 lines . . .

Quote:
I still predict it's going to be a disaster as those most likely to need a converter box are the low-income and the elderly, who especially aren't going to have a clue what to do when their TV goes dark and will start calling their congressmen. Take away their Social Security and they'll vote you out of office, Take away their TV's and they'll kill you.
ha, ha, I can't wait to watch the "million geriatric march" on my digital hd tv in 2009.

and maybe Willie will do a "HD AID" concert to help out as well.
billinprinceto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 04:17 PM   #13  
Sony KD34XS955
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pointe-Claire QC
Posts: 2,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billinprinceto View Post
My understanding is that we (existing users) have always been allocated the spectrum from 54mHz-88mHz (VHF ch2-6), 174mHz-216mHz (VHF ch7-13), and 470mHz-890mHz (UHF ch14-83).
Always? Hardly. There was a time when TV was VHF only.

In the USA Channels 70 to 83 were removed from the spectrum allocated to broadcast TV many years ago. Channels 52 to 69 will be removed on February 18, 2009. Channel 37 has been reserved for radio astronomy applications since the early days of UHF TV broadcasting.

Title III* of the "Deficit Reduction Act of 2005" (Public Law 109-171) clearly identifies the spectrum allocated to broadcast TV in the USA, effective February 18, 2009, as: channels 2-36 and channels 37-51. This act was finally passed in early 2006 and signed into law by President Bush on February 8, 2006.


*Title III is also officially referred to as: "Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005.
BrianO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 07:50 PM   #14  
What's all this, then?...
 
BobY's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbinck View Post
That could happen regardless of the functionality of the boxes.
Oh, I wasn't saying the functionality would make any difference. That's my point. If the reason they arbitrarily limited the functionality was to prevent "misuse" of the coupons, well all they really did was limit the functionality, the potential for misuse is not reduced at all.

I think you are absolutley right. They don't want people to redeem the coupons, they want the product to be undesirable so that few people will take them up on the offer.

That way, like most government programs, the politicos can tell their constituents they *did* something, without anything really being accomplished and without spending much effort or money on it.
BobY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2007, 07:59 PM   #15  
What's all this, then?...
 
BobY's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billinprinceto View Post
They had to do SOMETHING . . . imagine the rest of the world going HD and the US still tied to 525 lines . . .
Don't think for a minute this has anything to do with dragging the American people kicking and screaming into the brave new world of digital television for their own good. This is all about freeing up RF spectrum so it can be auctioned off for money.

It's not going to be HD anyway, it's just going to be SD DTV, which could very well look worse than analog TV broadcasts on an analog television.

That's one of my gripes about limiting the functionality. I'd bet there are ways of processing the DTV signal to make it look better than it otherwise would on an analog TV, but that would be considered an "unnecessary" feature.
BobY is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


to LG Wins DTV Converter Box Certification
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Comcast box hd converter? madkiwi Cable Providers 3 07-05-2009 05:34 PM
Motorola HDT101 vs. Samsung SIR-T451 jeffkrug Local HDTV Info and Reception 8 02-02-2008 02:18 PM
Verizon and DTV ivanl DirecTV Forum 1 07-06-2007 06:44 PM
Halliburton WINS No Bid Contract to Supply Converter Boxes HondoHDTV Local HDTV Info and Reception 2 03-15-2007 04:01 AM
High Def Converter Box wrecker29 Cable Providers 1 08-13-2004 08:57 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:08 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands