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Old 07-10-2007, 08:24 PM   #16  
What's all this, then?...
 
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I believe what you are describing is not burn-in, but uneven phosphor aging. Burn-in refers to uncorrectable damage cause by an image permanently etched into the phosphors. It can happen on phosphor-based displays, like CRT's and Plasmas, but it usually takes a long time and a concerted effort.

If, however, you watch a lot of 4:3 (non-widescreen) content with black side pillars, what you are doing is aging the phosphors normally in the active area of the screen, while not aging the phosphors at all in the black pillars. It won't be long before you notice a difference in brightness between the sides of the screen and the center.

You can avoid this in the first place by using gray side pillars (which age the phosphors in the side pillars at the same average rate as the phosphors in the active area of the screen) or stretch the 4:3 image to fill the screen.

If uneven phosphor aging occurs, you can usually clear it up by periodically running either a screen wiper (built into many Plasma displays or available on a DVD) or leave the set tuned to an unused channel full of "snow" for a while, which randomizes the phosphor aging.

Phosphor aging is normal and continues for the life of the display, however it should be many years before the phosphors age so much that picture quality can't be restored simply by adjusting the picture settings. The problem isn't that the phosphor ages (the backlights in LCD displays dim with age, too), but rather that it can age unevenly if you don't attend to it.
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Old 07-11-2007, 07:59 AM   #17  
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I also have a Pioneer plasma, a PRO1130HD and simular to you jmsent it started to have image retention. The ESPN logo was noticable in the right hand corner, the John Madden logo from my XBOX360 was in the left corner, etc...etc...etc...
Well...after just maintaining it like you are, those IR just started to fade away after about 6 mo. and even on a white screen, I don't really see any noticable IR's.
Plasmas are a little more sensitive, but when it comes down to pure performance...they are worth it!

Last edited by DEVO; 07-11-2007 at 08:06 AM..
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:05 AM   #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobY View Post
I believe what you are describing is not burn-in, but uneven phosphor aging. Burn-in refers to uncorrectable damage cause by an image permanently etched into the phosphors. It can happen on phosphor-based displays, like CRT's and Plasmas, but it usually takes a long time and a concerted effort.

If, however, you watch a lot of 4:3 (non-widescreen) content with black side pillars, what you are doing is aging the phosphors normally in the active area of the screen, while not aging the phosphors at all in the black pillars. It won't be long before you notice a difference in brightness between the sides of the screen and the center.

You can avoid this in the first place by using gray side pillars (which age the phosphors in the side pillars at the same average rate as the phosphors in the active area of the screen) or stretch the 4:3 image to fill the screen.

If uneven phosphor aging occurs, you can usually clear it up by periodically running either a screen wiper (built into many Plasma displays or available on a DVD) or leave the set tuned to an unused channel full of "snow" for a while, which randomizes the phosphor aging.

Phosphor aging is normal and continues for the life of the display, however it should be many years before the phosphors age so much that picture quality can't be restored simply by adjusting the picture settings. The problem isn't that the phosphor ages (the backlights in LCD displays dim with age, too), but rather that it can age unevenly if you don't attend to it.
I don't think you read my post very carefully. As I said before, I've always used full screen modes only. I followed break-in procedures. I don't use games, and I don't run in "torch" mode. The discoloration that is occuring on my set is due to the fact that programs I watch, (besides films), do not have even screen illumination. This is a fact of life for news channels and other programs. I've never owned a CRT based TV that showed the slightest sign of uneven wear regardless of what I watched. My 18 yr old B&O tv had no uneven screen aging at all, and the same programs were watched on that set.
A service rep from the (very reputable) place that sold me the plasma who looked at my set yesterday, told me that he sees this all the time, and that most people tend not to notice it until it gets really bad. There's no wipe mode built into my set, but I've already tried a wipe program (Jscreenfix) via my PC into the VGA input. So far, no major improvement. I think you're dealing in semantics between "uneven aging" and "burn in". It's just different degrees of the same thing. The fact that the manuals, warranty statements, etc are loaded with disclaimers about not covering burn-in problems, tells me that this is still a real issue in plasma sets.
I believe televisions should be idiot proof, and from my experience with my own plasma, this is far from the case. The fact that you have to "attend to" a plasma if you are to avoid such problems is more than most consumers will ever grasp, much less do.
I have no agenda here. I couldn't care less which format is more successful, and I personally feel that plasmas produce a considerably more accurate picture than LCD's -something supported by the facts. That's the reason I bought a plasma, and a very expensive one at that.
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:23 PM   #19  
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I'm not pushing an agenda either, but I know several people that have Plasma displays (including Pioneer), some for a few years now, and have never seen anything like what you are describing--permanent differences in brightness on areas of the screen as a result of normal viewing of full-screen images. They even play video games on them. I also know some that have had image retention and have been able to clear it up using the suggested procedures (it doesn't clear up in a just a few hours and it also depends on how picky you are).

It's not really an issue of semantics--burn-in refers to permanent damage, not uneven aging/temporary image retention. LCD's can also suffer from temporary image retention as charge builds up on the capacitve cells of the pixels and it can be corrected by leaving the display off for an extended period to let the charge bleed off.

If you're having problems after only three months of what is normal, full-screen viewing, and the brightness of your display can't be evened out through these relatively simple procedures, then I'd be inclined to think it was defective.

Of course, that's no consolation if they won't honor the warranty on that issue...
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:15 AM   #20  
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I have had a plasma from LG for 2 years now, and haven't seen anything like what you are describing. I do play games on it as well. The only thing that I observed was a problem with one old game that had lots of white bars on the screen, and that temporarily left a burn-in on the screen.
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Old 07-14-2007, 04:51 PM   #21  
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I think it's also worth mentioning that most (all?) manufacturers of LCD displays don't warrant against "a few" bad pixels that simply don't work.

Just as in the case of image retention on a Plasma display, you are at the mercy of the retailer whether they are willing to swap out the display for a new one, as the manufacturer won't.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:51 AM   #22  
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I think it's also worth mentioning that most (all?) manufacturers of LCD displays don't warrant against "a few" bad pixels that simply don't work.

Just as in the case of image retention on a Plasma display, you are at the mercy of the retailer whether they are willing to swap out the display for a new one, as the manufacturer won't.
I think my retailer will do right by me. He may charge me something, but I'll be able to change out my set if that is what I decide to do. Let me clarify here. When you talk about a plasma screen and image retention, there are a couple ways to evaluate it. If we're talking about what is visible when watching a movie or other video, this is one discussion. If we're talking about putting up a white screen and looking at it, this is another. If I look at regular video, I'd say the problem is there but visible and bothersome only when you look for it. If I put up a white screen, however, it's pretty terrible. It looks like the screen has memorized everything that wasn't displayed at perfectly even average intensity. As I said, I read all the warnings, and followed all the precautions carefully. I watched the tv shows I normally watch and this what happened. My assumption is if I continue to watch my set this way, this situation will likely get worse, not better. I'm wondering, for those who claim no problems, what does their set look like with a pure white screen?
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:11 PM   #23  
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I've had a Pioneer Elite 920hd for around three years and zero problems with burn-in or image retention. I suspect one reason for this is I watch everything in full wide screen except for the occasional 4:3 program on an hd channel which eliminates uneven phosphor wear.

When I first set up the tv I also made sure brightness/contrast levels were at mid range instead of the eye searing factory defaults which if left that way for the first few hundred hours of operation increases the chance of burn-in.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:25 PM   #24  
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I've had a Pioneer Elite 920hd for around three years and zero problems with burn-in or image retention. I suspect one reason for this is I watch everything in full wide screen except for the occasional 4:3 program on an hd channel which eliminates uneven phosphor wear.

When I first set up the tv I also made sure brightness/contrast levels were at mid range instead of the eye searing factory defaults which if left that way for the first few hundred hours of operation increases the chance of burn-in.
As I've posted over and over, I've done all of the above, and more.
Here's a link to a pic of my screen.

http://home.comcast.net/~jmsent2/940hdscreen.jpg

The darkening you see is real. It is all over the screen at one intensity or another. There are no issues with side or bottom bars because I don't use the set this way. Any comments?
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