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Plasma Bites the Dust...Hitachi Looking To Quit Plasma Market

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Old 12-06-2006, 04:15 PM   #46  
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The first article you posted appears to have been created in 2002, and the second in 2003. Many of the problems that they listed I have not noticed at all as an owner of a plasma display (I don't even think my TV has a fan in it, and both articles complained about a loud fan noise due to overheating).

Here is an article that is a little bit more than a year old. Reviewing it, the technology comparisons seemed more accurate, although the LCD price slide hadn't happened yet, so that tilts the review towards plasma.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6463_7-5023901-3.html
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:24 PM   #47  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobY
Stchman-

Since my previous post didn't mention most of the things you were commenting on in your response post, I'm presuming you were addressing those comments to someone else.

I didn't say the LCD was turning on and off 125 times a second, I'm simply pointing out that while it may be "capable of this", the image would be a total blur, as the crystals would never arrive at a stable orientation--they would be moving all of the time, so being "capable of this" is meaningless. If you could perform the same feat with the screen of a CRT or PDP, you would perceive the display as flickering rapidly, not blurred.

I also didn't say "watch a sporting event", I said watch the background in a fast pan of the camera as it follows a player. I watched the basketball game for several minutes before I noticed the effect. You don't notice it right away because your eyes are tracking the player, who is relatively motionless in the field of view. If you watch the background instead, you'll see what I'm talking about. Absent a Plasma or CRT display next to it as a reference, you may not think it's an issue, but when you see what the background really looks like, you can't help but wonder what damage the LCD response time is doing to other content as well.

The point of the USAF tests isn't whether the eye/brain can recognize discrete images at that rate, rather it proves the eye/brain is sensitive to changes in an image at rates higher than 60 times-per-second. The eye/brain will perceive the blurring as the liquid crystals realign. Maybe it doesn't look "bad", but Plasma looks better.

I'm not sure where you're getting your price info from. About the lowest I've seen the 46" Sony XBR3 is $3200 and about the lowest I've seen the Pioneer Pro FHD-1 is $5300.

Personally, I agree the Pioneer is pricey and I'm not ready to spend $5300 on it, but I'd do that lo-o-o-ng before I'd spend $3200 on the Sony, which is also pricey and not as good (smaller screen, worse motion response, more limited viewing angle, no 3:3 reverse pull-down for 1080p/24 films). In my opinion, and it's my own personal preference, the Sony is not nearly worth that kind of money. You don't have to agree with me, but don't act like just because it's cheaper I should ignore my issues with the Sony (I have other issues as well, the blurring was just one of them).

Ultimately, I don't share your value criteria. If something isn't twice as good, it doesn't mean it isn't worth twice the price. The best is the best and it costs what it costs. Using your criteria, no one should ever buy a Porsche or a Mercedes or Lexus because you can get a car for much less money that is probably 80 to 90% as good.
Sony does make a 52" XBR3 that makes it larger than the plasma.

Since there are no reviews that I can find on the 46" or 52" XBR3. Until someone or credible authority reviews the set in an unbiased fashion one cannot definitely say that plasma is better than LCD or vice versa.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:30 PM   #48  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fryet
The first article you posted appears to have been created in 2002, and the second in 2003. Many of the problems that they listed I have not noticed at all as an owner of a plasma display (I don't even think my TV has a fan in it, and both articles complained about a loud fan noise due to overheating).

Here is an article that is a little bit more than a year old. Reviewing it, the technology comparisons seemed more accurate, although the LCD price slide hadn't happened yet, so that tilts the review towards plasma.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6463_7-5023901-3.html
Thanks, it has been difficult to find some unbiased reviews of plasma and LCD flat panel TVs. In the 768p realm plasma held a price advantage over LCD. Inthe 1080p realm LCD has teh price advantage and with Sony having the 52" XBR3 the screen real estate is very comparable. I would definitely like to see a shootout between the 50" Pioneer 1080p plasma and the 52" XBR3 1080p LCD. Hopefully that happens.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:06 PM   #49  
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Lowest price I see on the KDL-52XBR3 is $5800, so even pricier than the Pioneer.

It *would* be great to see a side-by-side shoot out, in an unbiased fashion (but using input from those who *are* biased, to make sure that neither product gets it's high points or low points ignored).

I think the results may be inconclusive though, since, as you noted, each technology has advantages and disadvantages.

I would point out, though, that the Pioneer's faster response time, wider viewing angle (Sony's spec'd viewing angle of 178 degrees vertical is hogwash, unless they mean having the image alter drastically still qualifies as being within the viewing angle--I do agree the image remains visible) and features like 3:3 reverse pull-down are objectively superior--it's not a matter of opinion or personal preference.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:08 PM   #50  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stchman
I never stated that LCDs have better blacks than plasmas.
No, thats correct, you made up some bullshit "2%" number instead...my bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stchman
You quote black levels as that is the greatest attribute to PQ.
You seem a little dense...I mention black levels because it is the single BIGGEST shortcomming of LCDs, especially compared to plasma dude

Quote:
Originally Posted by stchman
CRTs have the best black levels of any HDTV technology
I know, too bad we'll never see a 720p or 1080p CRT huh?

BTW, you ever gonna come up with links to all these web sites that state an LCD is better than a plasma? Or are you, once again, spreading bs info?

Last edited by Type A; 12-06-2006 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:29 PM   #51  
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No, thats correct, you made up some bullshit "2%" number instead...my bad.



You seem a little dense...I mention black levels because it is the single BIGGEST shortcomming of LCDs, especially compared to plasma dude



I know, too bad we'll never see a 720p or 1080p CRT huh?

BTW, you ever gonna come up with links to all these web sites that state an LCD is better than a plasma? Or are you, once again, spreading bs info?
I did in a post above, it is a little older but it is still someone else's opinion.

The 2% was a for instance number. Do you have empiracal data telling us how much better plasma blacks are compared to LCD blacks or are you going to say you just think they are WAAAAAYYYY better just cause?

Here is a review of LCD vs. Plasma that states that both have their advantages and disadvantages and that LCDs have blacker blacks.

http://www.presentationmaster.com/20...res/plasma.htm

Here is a website that states both plasma and LCD are very equal with LCDs haveing the advantage in a more brightly lit room.

http://www.cheap-plasma-tv.com/plasma-vs-lcd-tv.htm

Now email the people that wrote these articles and tell them they are spreading BS and that yours and Steeb's opinions are the only correct ones. Why? Just cause.

In one of the articles a Samsung employee states that LCDs have better blacks than plasmas. I guess he is lying as well because he could not know more than you.

Now that I have posted links I guess I am no longer full of BS. You will probably come back and say those articles are invalid, blah, blah, blah.

IMO CRT HDTVs have a terrible picture when put up against a DLP, LCoS or any other modern fixed pixel HDTV. That is why the CRT for HD is near dead. BB no longer sells any and I think CC has one model.

Last edited by stchman; 12-06-2006 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 12-06-2006, 07:57 PM   #52  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stchman
Here is a review of LCD vs. Plasma that states that both have their advantages and disadvantages and that LCDs have blacker blacks.

http://www.presentationmaster.com/20...res/plasma.htm

Here is a website that states both plasma and LCD are very equal with LCDs haveing the advantage in a more brightly lit room.

http://www.cheap-plasma-tv.com/plasma-vs-lcd-tv.htm
Could you find any older articles?

Bottom line is, most people, including the majority of the experts, agree that plasmas produce a superior picture when compared to LCDs. All other factors fall by the wayside when you get down to it. PQ is the name of the game.

You can believe what you want, just realize that most people disagree with you.
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:06 PM   #53  
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Originally Posted by stchman
Truth is you are a gutless puke that sits behind your computer screen and regurgitates what he has read on websites.
Ah... so now I'm a gutless puke, huh? You can't back up your bullshit claims, so instead you decide to attack me - that's a very telling trait.

The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of people on here that know way more than you about high def hardware and software. I just happen to be one of them. Your problem is, you don't know the limits of your knowledge/intelligence. You keep trying to have arguments about things you know nothing about. You don't bring facts or evidence to the table, you bring lies and a grade-school mentality.
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:07 PM   #54  
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CRT's aren't going away because they look bad, they're going away because the manufacturers don't want to make them anymore.

They are big, heavy, prone to damage and misaligment in shipping, have more service issues, require much more hand assembly and alignment, are limited in their maximum screen size and are basically a pain for the manufacturers to build.

The reason they are still with us and didn't disappear a while ago is that no technology could touch their PQ for the price. Small LCD's finally have acceptable PQ at a reasonable price so the manufacturers are now trying to phase CRT's out.

I will take my 30" Toshiba HD CRT over *any* 30" LCD at *any* price. It looks outstanding (and *many* people who have seen it have said so). No, it doesn't reproduce 1920 x 1080 pixels, but it gives me the blackest blacks (in a dark room, you can't even tell the set is on when the screen is black), the brightest whites and everything in between with smooth, silky gradations and vivid, rich color. It has a 180 degree viewing angle from all directions with no degradation of the picture and the contrast range is superb (many subtle levels of black-on-black).

I won't even think of getting rid of it until the price of a 50" or larger 1080p Plasma is a bit more realistic.
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:10 PM   #55  
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I won't even think of getting rid of it until the price of a 50" or larger 1080p Plasma is a bit more realistic.

Even then, put it in a bedroom or some other room. It'll probably be good for 20 years or so, if reasonable care is shown.
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:52 PM   #56  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stchman
In one of the articles a Samsung employee states that LCDs have better blacks than plasmas. I guess he is lying as well because he could not know more than you.
LOL, and you say steeb is bias? S-LCD is a brand new joint venture between Sony and Samsung...heres what they intend to do:

"Next fall, the 8G S-LCD line will commence operations, adding another 50,000 mother-glass substrates (measuring a record 2,200mm x 2,500mm) to the overall monthly production capacity, thereby positioning S-LCD as the world's largest producer of large-screen LCD TV panels. The 8th-generation fabrication line will mainly be used to produce LCD panels for 52" or larger diagonal LCD TVs."

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/P...102_0000298049

Any chance you can provide links that arent from employees working for the soon-to-be-largest large LCD maker? Im just curious........

Last edited by Type A; 12-06-2006 at 08:59 PM..
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:56 PM   #57  
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LOL, and you say steeb is bias?
And I've never denied being biased. I love plasmas, front projectors, HD DVD, XBOX 360, pizza, and naked chicks. Not necessarily in that order.
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:25 AM   #58  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb
Could you find any older articles?

Bottom line is, most people, including the majority of the experts, agree that plasmas produce a superior picture when compared to LCDs. All other factors fall by the wayside when you get down to it. PQ is the name of the game.

You can believe what you want, just realize that most people disagree with you.
First off it was difficult to find plasma vs. LCD articles. Since you are such a proponent of plasma over LCD then how about you post some links that support your argument. Don't give me the "many on here agree" or "Experts say....". Post links or sut your trap.

I posted links to support my position so I guess that they folks in those articles are lying since everyone who disagrees with you is an obvious liar.

Come on!
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:29 AM   #59  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb
Ah... so now I'm a gutless puke, huh? You can't back up your bullshit claims, so instead you decide to attack me - that's a very telling trait.

The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of people on here that know way more than you about high def hardware and software. I just happen to be one of them. Your problem is, you don't know the limits of your knowledge/intelligence. You keep trying to have arguments about things you know nothing about. You don't bring facts or evidence to the table, you bring lies and a grade-school mentality.
Yes, you are such a God when it comes to HD hardware and software. You regurgitate all what you read on the web.

The fact of the matter is that you are backed into a corner so you are now spouting dribble. All you bring to the table is "many on here agree with me" or "Experts tell us.....". Stop with your spewing and you support your arguments. Your opinion is not evidence.
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:33 AM   #60  
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Originally Posted by Type A
LOL, and you say steeb is bias? S-LCD is a brand new joint venture between Sony and Samsung...heres what they intend to do:

"Next fall, the 8G S-LCD line will commence operations, adding another 50,000 mother-glass substrates (measuring a record 2,200mm x 2,500mm) to the overall monthly production capacity, thereby positioning S-LCD as the world's largest producer of large-screen LCD TV panels. The 8th-generation fabrication line will mainly be used to produce LCD panels for 52" or larger diagonal LCD TVs."

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/P...102_0000298049

Any chance you can provide links that arent from employees working for the soon-to-be-largest large LCD maker? Im just curious........
Since yourself and Steeb are so confident then the both of you post links to support your arguments. I am sick of your and Steeb saying post links then you shoot them down. Your turn. If your or Steeb cannot then it is time to clam up.
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