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10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

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Old 11-22-2006, 11:58 AM   #31  
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I did say movies, but perhaps wasn't more emphatic about the source. SD DVD movies to HD version of the same movie are a step up. BUT, SD video (live sports) to HD is a 2 steps up. I'd call that a "huge difference." Not so for movies. Don't forget that filmmakers traditionally manipulate the film to suit their artistic choice. A very dark and grainy film is going to look awfully similar in SD and HD (funny story, since I got my HD TV haven't gone to the movie theaters as much; just saw one that all the way through I kept muttering to myself "damn he totally crushed the black there").

As for "up-converted" I suspect adding more pixels is not the issue; all of out fixed pixel displays convert to their native resolution. It's more the processing of the signal the broadcasters do that "makes a difference." Keep in mind that just adding more pixels does not make for a "sharper" image, it's a software function that actually changes pixels to create an image that appears sharper. Mostly I've noticed this kind of thing done in the network news shows. Look at NBC SD-4, look at NBC HD-705. Both have been converted to my panels native display resolution, so both are "upconverted." The HD version looks sharper, it obviously has been "enhanced" via video picture processing.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:37 PM   #32  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davecramer74
well with HD DVD being backwards compatible to play my old dvd's, which i have a shitload of, ill make the leap and pay 200 bucks for the HD dvd for my xbox360. I personally thing sony's stupid for going blu-ray. I guess they didnt learn their lesson on the beta tapes eh? My opinion is HD dvd will become the standard.

Ive owned every console out there. Ill prolly buy the ps3 at some point. but it wont be for the blue ray features. It will be because i want to play Gran tourismo on it.
I concur.
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Old 12-01-2006, 09:40 PM   #33  
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I find it strange that mostly everybody just AGREES. Have we lost our ability to think independently?
I am not related to Sony or the competing other party but still believe that at least one of the formats has a great future. The reason is simple guys... I am fed up of DVDs that can barely store 4.3gig of data. My videos, songs, photos, data would do much better on a disk that can store more than ten times the amount possible on DVD data.
My data bulk is growing just as fast as mankind's insatiable apatite to gobble up resources and digital media is going to be no exception. PS3 as I had assumed did create a mad rush at least to begin with and hopefully will be a trend setter.
READ MY LIPS - ALL OF YOU WILL HAVE A COMP SUPPORTING ONE OF THE FORMATS VERY VERY SOON NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK TODAY!!
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Old 12-02-2006, 11:15 AM   #34  
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ambcorp2000,

I see quite a lot of disagreement in this thread, and even more heated discussion in other threads. We are not all of the same mind on this matter.

Yes, in the next year or so computers will start having a HD-DVD or BD drive, which will have the same effect that it had with DVDs - help push acceptance of high def DVDs.

I too like the improved picture that both HD-DVD and BD deliver and when there is a universal player, I will jump in. Most of the posters are not saying that this will be a total failure - they are saying that for the foreseeable future, it will be a niche market.

Let me recap the reasons:
- Unlike standard DVDs, to enjoy this new format, you must have a high def television. Although the number is growing, the high estimate of families with a HD television is right at 20%.
- The format war and player prices are hurting acceptance by those with HD televisions. I bought my first DVD player 6 months after the format came out for $399 + tax. That worked with all DVDs with all studios (ignoring the stupid DIVIX fiasco). For me to do the same today would be much more expensive, since it would require two players.
- I get an outstanding DVD picture on my HD television. The last time I had a large group over to watch a DVD movie (Narnia) the group repeatedly commented that they didn't see how the picture could get much better. Granted, non of them have seen the HD-DVD or BD demos, but they are partially right - the picture improvement from SD-DVD to high def DVD is (IMO) not as impressive as the improvement from VHS to DVD.

IMO this will remain at best a niche market for some time to come. I sincerely hope I am wrong and will be happy if you are able to say "I told you so" in the near future, but Sony / Toshiba / studios have screwed this thing up badly.
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Old 12-02-2006, 11:34 AM   #35  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambcorp2000
I am fed up of DVDs that can barely store 4.3gig of data. My videos, songs, photos, data would do much better on a disk that can store more than ten times the amount possible on DVD data.
You do realize you can get DL DVDs, right? It's not like they're new...
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Old 12-02-2006, 12:43 PM   #36  
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Quote:
Let me recap the reasons:
- Unlike standard DVDs, to enjoy this new format, you must have a high def television. Although the number is growing, the high estimate of families with a HD television is right at 20%.
- The format war and player prices are hurting acceptance by those with HD televisions. I bought my first DVD player 6 months after the format came out for $399 + tax. That worked with all DVDs with all studios (ignoring the stupid DIVIX fiasco). For me to do the same today would be much more expensive, since it would require two players.
- I get an outstanding DVD picture on my HD television. The last time I had a large group over to watch a DVD movie (Narnia) the group repeatedly commented that they didn't see how the picture could get much better. Granted, non of them have seen the HD-DVD or BD demos, but they are partially right - the picture improvement from SD-DVD to high def DVD is (IMO) not as impressive as the improvement from VHS to DVD.
To the above points I cannot help but agree. Except the Narnia movie part - the simple answer is - see it for yourself in a movie theatre.

Let me explain my general point by taking an example of some of the parallel trends that may help take BD/HDDVD to take off - Lets examine the emerging phenomena of media integration so that my gaming station, my media player, TV etc. all are just one system. This may not be an emerging phenomena at all - we all are used to the good old entertainment center in our living room! It's just that this furniture can now truely come off age and do what is supposed to - combine home PC + a gaming console + TV + media storage + other frills. This is a great gizmo and also saves me a lot of money.
Irrespective of whether they participate in the BD/HDDVD war all or at least many companies have enough products in the market to prove that they are game for media integration.
Once this happens friend.. can you imagine the exponential rise in our insatiable need of digital media? Of course HD digital data will still stream, will store itserlf in a HDD but then why will it stop hoppin around in my pocket (or back pack) or display itself proudly in a super store? And my friend, if BD/HDDVD don't take off that's exactly that will happen. There is no niche market for them just beacuse they will be propelled skywards by so many forces.. media integration is just ONE small small example.
Probably this is also the reason why its worth fighting for. There's nothing great or too expensive about this new trend. It's just about a 10 times leap in the amount of digital storage that the common man will get to use. With higher memory size and possibilities, complexities cannot be helped. Let these complexities not tangle us up!
A note appreciation - your 10 points are quite well concieved - good enough to start this huge debate - Thanks for providing me/all with this platform. Having expressed my point of view I am also keeping my fingers crossed to see the of HD media success unfold in front of all of us.

Last edited by ambcorp2000; 12-02-2006 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 12-02-2006, 12:51 PM   #37  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb
You do realize you can get DL DVDs, right? It's not like they're new...
DL DVD is just 2X not enough for most of us I guess...
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Old 12-02-2006, 02:48 PM   #38  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambcorp2000
DL DVD is just 2X not enough for most of us I guess...
Okay, but you were bitching about using "DVDs that can barely store 4.3gig of data." It appeared that you were ignoring or unaware of DL DVDs.
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Old 12-02-2006, 03:45 PM   #39  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambcorp2000
...READ MY LIPS - ALL OF YOU WILL HAVE A COMP SUPPORTING ONE OF THE FORMATS VERY VERY SOON NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK TODAY!!
Lips? You do realize you're posting in a forum and not making a public speech?

Oh, thanks for notifying us on our futility to think about this subject.
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Old 12-02-2006, 04:57 PM   #40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borromini
Lips? You do realize you're posting in a forum and not making a public speech?

Oh, thanks for notifying us on our futility to think about this subject.
And screaming at the same time...tsk tsk.
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Old 12-03-2006, 12:19 AM   #41  
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Even tho the numbers say that about 20% of homes have these tv's, that has to change this year or next with the drop in prices of these things. They've become so affordable for people, my friend at BB has sold some LCD flat panels to folks mounting them to the inside of their mobile home. That's got to say somethin for HDTV's affordability.

Last edited by drumfiend; 12-03-2006 at 12:37 AM..
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Old 12-03-2006, 12:28 AM   #42  
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Even tho dvd-a & sacd were flops, one simply must take into account that those formats were never BROADCASTED into people's homes as HD's 720p & 1080i are today. A simple powered antenna can get billy bob's favorite prime time hd LOCAL programming into his house WITHOUT paying a service prodiver. Not only that, but DirecTV and Time Warner are now full swing in the process of converting to a more prominent HD format (after DirecTV's long hindered upconversion of local HD programming and Time Warner's crappy analog package that accompanies even the highest HD tier, they can get underway with what people are really after from the programming they pay out their ears for). Bottom line, expect 50-75HD channels from either, expecially DirecTV by the end of 2007.
I have to agree that Sony and Toshiba, especially, never should have broken off negotiations to merge technologies and that one will most likely fizzle the other out. But if I had to choose one, it would be Sony's 1080p, increasingly exposed, and multi-liscensed Blu-Ray. Had they liscensed their product last time, Beta might have actually had a future. Good to see they learn from their mistakes. For now tho, I would be happy enough buying an upconversion DVD player, don't forget the HDMI cable, and save myself about 300-1000 bucks, especially since my HD tv isn't 1080p.
But as for the argument that HD is a fad, no way no how. After the taste that 720p left in people's mouths and the uproar of questions and amazements that the public has witnessed, HD is here to stay in a growing market of expanding source and falling prices of screen sizes and types. 1080p is the next step forward, premature perhaps, but nonetheless in plain sight. Right now we have one 1080p source, the Blu-Ray. Who knows who the first local network will be to broadcast in full HD. It may be several all at one time much like the changeover to 720p in primetime programming was.
I feel bad for Billy Bob tho if he either bought off the internet or from some store on either the arrogant whim that he already knew all he needed to know or just didn't get the help and information he needed. Make no mistake folks, these tv's are, more often then not, designed to be part of a system. The author of the article here is right when he says that screen and source must go hand in hand or you're wasting your time and money. Atleast do some research on the type of tv you're interested in before you set foot in a store and if you're too lazy to do that, I went to a circuit city on a lunch break recently, and i have to say all 3 of the people i talked to were very knowledgeable and good at their information, not to mention non-commissioned. I loved it. Anyway, these things are still investments, even tho they've sky-bombed in price these last 6 months.
Be ready to get what you need to make it work. Don't just get one thing and think you're gonna see the picture they have on display at the store. Set 5-10% of your spending amount aside for things like cables and other accessories. Get it all at once and try to work a deal, in the attempt to reduce un-necessary trips to the store, irritation, and that 'I swear, I'll return it all' mentality over a missing cable or something. Believe me the only thing worse than not getting a new HDTV you want so bad is having one and returning it over a bad experience, and depriving yourself of your favorite primetime Local HD show when the tv you should be watching it on was sitting in a box not 10 feet from you no more than a week ago.[/QUOTE]
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Old 12-03-2006, 02:59 AM   #43  
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Simply put, the author of the article is a daggy [email protected]@ktard with no forsight what-so-ever. He/She has no concept of the fact that the industry has grown exponentially in the past 10 years. Think about it. What computer were you using 3 years ago? How many of you even discussed HD 3 years ago? The leaps and bounds technology has achieved in the past 10 years will be nothing compared to the next 5 years. HD is not a niche market (20 % is more than niche), consumers will demand more and better HD. If the market saturation is at 20% today - give it two years and I'll say it's at minimum 50%. Throw in the fact that digital tubes will be mandatory in the next couple of years - how many consumers will opt for something that is capable of 720/1080i - I would bet that most of them will opt for HD. The author of the article is a fuzz eared, hairy nostriled dinosaur of the past. Disregard the naysayers.

Last edited by oblioman; 12-03-2006 at 03:13 AM..
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Old 12-03-2006, 08:57 AM   #44  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oblioman
Simply put, the author of the article is a daggy [email protected]@ktard with no forsight what-so-ever...
What are daggy [email protected]@ktards? Oh wait...are you drunk again?
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Old 12-03-2006, 10:57 AM   #45  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambcorp2000
ALL OF YOU WILL HAVE A COMP SUPPORTING ONE OF THE FORMATS VERY VERY SOON NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK TODAY!!
I'm not sure how true this is. A majority of people do not need more than 4.3 gig's of disc storage as of this moment. Sure it would be nice to have a disc that can hold 15/25/30/50/etc gig's of data, but unless they are copying the entire contents of their HDD, they don't really need it. DVD's are a cheap way to get a decent amount of data onto a single disc. Sure, down the line it will be necessary to upgrade to a higher capacity but atm I don't think many people care about having more capacity than DVD.
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