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10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

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Old 11-18-2006, 06:29 PM   #16  
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Well, if worse comes to worst and HD DVD fails, and zero universal players get made because BD just kicked royal ass from here on out...then I will have three HD DVD players (two A1s and an Add-on) to fall back on to play my beta-discs. So I'll be good, thank you very much.

But no way that's happening. Worse case for HD DVD now is the Universal players, meaning HD DVD is here to stay. HD DVD is really an enhanced form of DVD, and with the single-sided, equally-priced combos an eventuality, DVD and HD DVD will be as one. Besides, we're still talking 5 inch optical media here, and the public's been scarfing on that for the last 25 years.

Bottom line: The article (besides being stone-age) is sour grapes BS.
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Old 11-18-2006, 09:14 PM   #17  
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I understand there is not much diff. in pq with reg. dvd and hd dvd anyway. If your tv is 40" or bigger and you sit close you will see a diff.
and with the cost of equipment and movie purchase, and the split of studio production they are digging themselves into a place where not many will be willing to take sides. greedy bastards! there is no need for excessive prices anyway. 1st gen or not. the basis is flat out greed. I'll keep my prog. scan deck.
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Old 11-18-2006, 10:29 PM   #18  
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For those that think HD-DVD or Bluray will just be a niche market - why do you think this?

Granted there will be other media formats out in the future that can exceed its capacity..etc, but since each format can support the highest resolution TV's support, what need would there be for any new format to replace it?

Consider Laserdisc. It was DVD quality, but the size of a record. Only reason it needed replacement was due to this fact. HD-DVD and Bluray are small already. They have the necessary picture quality, size..etc.

What more could any new format offer that these two can't?
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Old 11-18-2006, 11:23 PM   #19  
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mshulman,

A lot of this depends upon your definition of a niche market. I have seen projections saying that 7 - 20% of US homes have a high def television (a much smaller percent are getting high def broadcasts). Only a fraction of the HD television owners have bought either HD-DVD or BD. So right now this is a niche market, by my definition.

Will these formats grow to become mainstream? I certainly hope so, and I will eventually do my part to help. But the BEST that HD-DVD / BD can do right now is 20% of the viewing public market, and that would only happen if 100% of HD television owners buy this new technology.

Standard DVDs (like any new technology) were a niche market for a few years. HD-DVD and BD are niche markets right now. Whether they become mainstream or not will depend upon:
- how quickly the general public buys HD televisions
- how quickly the price on players drops and movies become available
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Old 11-18-2006, 11:56 PM   #20  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leevitalone
I understand there is not much diff. in pq with reg. dvd and hd dvd anyway. If your tv is 40" or bigger and you sit close you will see a diff.
You've been misinformed. The difference is huge.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:13 AM   #21  
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HD DVD is certainly a niche market presently but it will grow and present owners may have great influence for people who own or will own an HDTV. And to them I say:

I love my HD-A1 because:
  • The HD picture quality is great and so is the Top Menu functions
  • The lossless sound of DD TrueHD makes dialogs and side noises an "in your room" presence unmatched by any other sound technology. And DTS-HD MA is coming.
  • by accident, the player is among the best CD player in existence, some costing thousands of dollars. And if HD DVD would lose the war (an unlikely event, in my opinion) I would treasure my HD-A1 for playing CD's in uncompressed PCM over 5.1 multichannel analogs. Same applies to a DTS track of a DVD-A, simply great sound.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:32 AM   #22  
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I can relate to that...there are many personal and business aquaintances whom I've had the pleasure of advising on HD and advocated some of those same points. The adoption of HD is definitely going to take place...due to the Internet and advertising. HDTVs are in the conscience of most folks that are currrently or eventually buying a new TV.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:57 AM   #23  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb
You've been misinformed. The difference is huge.
Agree 100%. I'm so sick of people saying otherwise. I'm currently using a 34" Sony CRT HDTV from a viewing distance of 5-6' and I see a HUGE difference. The detail is always there, even with smaller sets. When I add a large SED to my living room (viewing distances of approx 10-14', depending on where you're sitting), I am not expecting much of a difference from what I am seeing now.
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Old 11-19-2006, 09:48 AM   #24  
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It's unfortunate that most tech junkies seem to think that you can't see much of a difference in smaller HDTVs (which is probably because they haven't yet given smaller displays a try). It has the effect of discouraging some to buy into it (and subsequently HD DVD/BD) because they can't afford the 37" and above (my definition of large screen anyway). If one always adjusts their viewing distance relative to the screen size (say, a 2:1 ratio), then the difference will be just as noticable (which, as Steeb says, is huge). I have a 20" Gateway HD moniter which is only 2-3 feet from my face and HD looks fantastic on it (although I rarely use it for HD as I have a 27" Westy right next to it that I view HD DVD instead)

People need to realize that HDTV does not have to be big to be enjoyed and the sooner this misconception is unmasked, the better. Because if some people are waiting for under $500 huge displays (because they've been misinformed to think that HD can only be appreciated on the "big guys"), then they'll be waiting a long time, to the detriment of the (competing) format's penetration rate.

Last edited by bruceames; 11-19-2006 at 09:53 AM..
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:08 PM   #25  
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Had Sunday lunch today with my church small group at a friend's house. He had a football game on his analog 27" television. His comment was that it was hard to watch the game at his house after watching other games in HD at my house.

The difference is noticeable for most (but not all) people. He will probably be buying an HD television soon because of his exposure to HD television at my house.

He will probably not jump right into HD-DVD or BD, but you can bet that he will eventually.

By the way, I read everything I can related to HD programming and most statistics indicate 15 - 20% of American households have HD televisions, with a substantial number of these not getting HD programming. But there was an article the other day indicating that there were only 7 million HD television sets in homes, a number closer to 7 - 10%. Do we have a good feel for what is the actual number of homes in the USA with a HD television?

Maybe the difference is in counting households rather than television sets. For example, my home is one household but we have 2 HD televisions (Great room, game room - DVDs only).
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:34 PM   #26  
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That article claiming 7-10 homes must be the # of homes that also have HD programming as there are several sources saying that is the case and also that HDTV pentration at now at least 15-20 percent of homes.
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:55 AM   #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb
You've been misinformed. The difference is huge.
Depends! Going from watching a regular DVD on a 4:3 CRT to a HD or BD disc on a HD TV is huge. However, going from watching that same regular DVD on a 16:9 HD TV to the same display with a HD/BD disc just isn't that huge. After 7 months or so living with a 16:9 display, I've come to believe that it's "16"9ness" is as important as the increased resolution, if not more so than all those extra pixels.

I've made fairly careful experiments between a few movies that I have available in HD vs. their DVD counterparts... lemme tell you, there wasn't near as much difference as some might want to see. Yes, there was a difference, yes the HD version was better, but simply not in any earth shattering way; a lot of the differences were actually pretty subtle.
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:53 PM   #28  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulc
Depends! Going from watching a regular DVD on a 4:3 CRT to a HD or BD disc on a HD TV is huge. However, going from watching that same regular DVD on a 16:9 HD TV to the same display with a HD/BD disc just isn't that huge. After 7 months or so living with a 16:9 display, I've come to believe that it's "16"9ness" is as important as the increased resolution, if not more so than all those extra pixels.

I've made fairly careful experiments between a few movies that I have available in HD vs. their DVD counterparts... lemme tell you, there wasn't near as much difference as some might want to see. Yes, there was a difference, yes the HD version was better, but simply not in any earth shattering way; a lot of the differences were actually pretty subtle.
I couldn't disagree more. There's absolutely nothing subtle about the differences, both in PQ and AQ.
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:52 PM   #29  
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Steeb,

I agree with you - I think that the HD picture is generally far superior to up converted standard def television even on a smaller set. I say generally, because some of the up converted stations (such as National Geographic on my Comcast hookup) look pretty good.

I have a lot of folks over to watch Razorback football and interestingly enough, about half cannot tell the difference between an up converted standard def picture & a HD picture. I know they cannot because we toggle back and forth with other games (not always in HD) during commercials. On a positive note, those that cannot tell the difference think both pictures (HD & SD) are pretty good.

It will be hard to convince these folks that they need to spend more to get a HD television, and even harder to sell them on HD-DVD or BD.

I did an experiment once when TNT showed Gladiator (one of my favorite movies) in HD. I put in my Gladiator DVD and moved to a chapter ahead of the movie. Paused the movie till the television broadcast caught up, then toggled back and forth. Didn't have them exactly the same, but it was close. I have to agree with paulc - the HD picture was superior, but not "blow me out of the water" superior.

Some of this may be because of the compression TNT was using with Gladiator - my HD television picture may not have been as good as it can get (or match HD-DVD / BD).
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:12 PM   #30  
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Post It's all in the size of the steps and how many you take.

Looks like your average TV replacement to one of the new systems gives a very positive response. But for enthusiasts in this forum who enjoy good systems already.. the difference isn't quite as spectacular.

From my perspective:

Jumping from a standard analog TV to digital broadcast = step up
Jumping from a standard digital broadcast to DVD s-vid = step up
Jumping from DVD resolution to digital broadcast 720P = step up
Jumping from broadcast HDTV to High Def 1080p DVD = step up

Of course you can consider half steps, from VHS-tape, through WS 1080i but in the main, if you take two steps up... the difference is obvious, four steps and it's nothing short of spectacular. But many of us have enjoyed half step increments, like PC home theaters, component connections, over compressed downloads of HD etc. For the industry to really get the public moving, they will have to pull-out all the stops at each step and at the moment I don't see the will, when HD broadcasting is suffering, high def DVD material is still lagging badly, and manufacturers are still waging hardware wars. It took the feds to mandate most of the digital/hd world.. and broadcasters are going into this kicking and screaming. The manufacturers and hollywood had an opportunity to excel, but instead of taking on this challenge and producing new exciting visual content, they've cloaked themselves in protective drm wrappers and are determined to wring the every dime from low budget box office failures.

This is not over by any means, but to describe HD as niche market is really to deny the PQ future. Take two steps up, and you'll be converted... four steps and you'll be a member in this forum.
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