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Old 12-25-2005, 01:06 PM   #16  
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They won't have to buy a new TV, just a ATSC tuner.

Radio Shack has a ATSC tuner for $89.98.
HDTV Receiver with HDMI Output Jack

At $89.98 today with a HDMI output, can $50 or less be three years away? Probably.
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Old 12-25-2005, 05:03 PM   #17  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman

At some point the old has to be done away with and the new ushered in. Thats just life. You cant have this intermediate stage drag on forever...
Agreed. Without a definite cutoff date it could drag on for years even with the 85% rule. It took 18 years (1964 to 1982) for the UK to shutdown the old 405 scan-line broadcast system that they used before BBC2 introduced the 625 scan-line system (PAL) in use in the UK today. Noone wants a repeat of that fiasco.

February 17, 2009 is fine with me, but for millions of people it will still come too soon. And no amount of rationalization by people who have no idea of how "the other half" lives will change that. The CEA is not helping matters by continuing to mass produce smaller sets without ATSC tuners. It's time for the CEA to "get with the program" and help rather than hinder the changeover. Even if it pushes the price per set up by $100 (the price difference between the Sony 32" and 36" FS130 digital/analog series and FS120 analogue-only series sets) the prices will still be simlar to or less than they were for similar analogue-only sets of 2 or 3 years ago.

The CEA should also cease and desist from labelling sets with resolutions less than the ATSC specification of 1280x720 as HDTV's. Unlike NTSC where only the number of lines was part of the specification, the ATSC spec explicitly defines the number of dots per line for each of its formats. The ATSC widescreen spec is 16:9, so the 15:9 sets also fail to meet the ATSC definition for HDTV. The deliberate dishonesty in labelling and advertising of some of the CEA members needs to stop....NOW!

Last edited by BrianO; 12-25-2005 at 05:10 PM..
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:32 PM   #18  
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The CEA is a manufacturers' group to hype their agenda (selling more stuff) not a Consumer protection group. As always, caveat emptor!
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Old 12-26-2005, 06:30 PM   #19  
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Originally Posted by RSawdey
The CEA is a manufacturers' group to hype their agenda (selling more stuff) not a Consumer protection group. As always, caveat emptor!
I realize that. I simply use the term because, at 3 letters long, it is shorter than saying "equipment manufacturers and vendors". Damn near all of them are guilty of the type of shady practices and misleading terminology that I cite, some more so than others. Since they have an association and they all seem to act in the same somewhat less than forthright manner, a reasonable person might be tempted to think the the C in CEA stands for "collusion", but that might be a bit harsh so I shall refrain from labelling them with the "C word".

15:9 must go! Compromised resolution must go! All widescreen fixed-pixel TV displays should be 16:9 and have a 16:9 pixel ratio.

ATSC-compliant Digital tuners in all sets now!

Sets that do not meet these requirements should be classified as nothing more than sub-standard junk and ought to be clearly labelled as not being consistent with ATSC broadcast standards.

Feel free to disagree.
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Old 12-26-2005, 06:50 PM   #20  
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[QUOTE]BrianO
Location: Pointe-Claire QC
Quote:
ATSC-compliant Digital tuners in all sets now!
Sets that do not meet these requirements should be classified as nothing more than sub-standard junk and ought to be clearly labelled as not being consistent with ATSC broadcast standards.
Quote:
http://www.cdtv.ca/en/faq/ It is very important to recognize the differences between the two sets of standards. The ATSCís 12 Standard Definition and 6 High Definition formats relate to the broadcast of Digital TV. The CEA terminology for Standard Definition, Enhanced Definition and High Definition relate specifically to hardware reception and display capabilities.....
Who is broadcasting HDTV?
United States. The major networks, ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS and Fox are broadcasting HD in prime time throughout the US, and currently over 95% of U.S. homes now have access to HDTV signals. By October 2003 over 1000 US stations were broadcasting DTV, although they must simulcast their programming in NTSC until 2006.
Canada. At this time (mid 2005) HDTV broadcasts are available over-the-air in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. In addition, in certain border cities, HDTV broadcasts from the adjacent US cities can be received...How Long will Conventional Analogue TV Signals Be Available?Since the transition to digital TV will take a long time to complete, youíll be able to watch analogue broadcasting for years. As a point of reference, it took 13 years for sales of color televisions to surpass black-and-white sales. In comparison, digital television represents a change of even greater complexity. The earliest that analogue stations may be allowed to shut down in Canada has yet to be determined but it is likely to be beyond the year 2010. Because analogue broadcasting will be with us for years, new HDTV receivers will also receive and display analogue TV signals. © 2005 CDTV
Looks like the provinces to the north eg. Pointe-Claire QC and environs -aren't in any hurry

Last edited by maicaw; 12-26-2005 at 06:59 PM..
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Old 12-27-2005, 12:43 AM   #21  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maicaw
. Looks like the provinces to the north eg. Pointe-Claire QC and environs -aren't in any hurry
You are absolutely correct. The approach being used in Canada is pathetic; the blind leading the blind would be a drastic improvement.

Fortunately, most of the stations I watch are south of the border. Nothing new. In the early 1950's in Kingston, Ontario I was watching 2 Syracuse stations for almost 2 years before Canada's first TV station went on the air. Even Watertown had a TV station before Kingston's CKWS went on the air in December 1954.
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Old 12-27-2005, 01:26 AM   #22  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianO
. In the early 1950's in Kingston, Ontario I was watching 2 Syracuse stations for almost 2 years before Canada's first TV station went on the air. Even Watertown had a TV station before Kingston's CKWS went on the air in December 1954.
Portland Oregon didn't get a TV station until 1952 - KPTV -The station signed on in 1952 on channel 27, as Oregon's first television station, as well as the world's first commercial TV station on the UHF band. As Portland's only TV station at the time, KPTV screened shows from all four networks: ABC, CBS, NBC, and the now-defunct Dumont network.- population was probably about 125,000 - I was in high school - On Oct. 15, 1953, KOIN-TV signed on as Portland's first VHF television station -In 1956 I had a nightly job of re-equalizing a 75 mile section of the buried coaxial cable that brought network television from Sacramento up the coast to Portland and north - a year or two later the whole 600 miles was upgraded to terrestrial microwave (C-band) - PQ in Oregon/Wash improved immensely!

Last edited by maicaw; 12-27-2005 at 01:48 AM..
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Old 12-27-2005, 01:58 PM   #23  
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Since your bio says you're 100, that must mean it took you about 30 years to finish high school...
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:18 PM   #24  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSawdey
Since your bio says you're 100, that must mean it took you about 30 years to finish high school...
- yeh -jeez those nuns are really tough to please --as I told someone else here - everything you see on the internet isn't the truth -when it doesn't matter - we make it up - when it does matter - (inside the message box) - it's all fact or as close as possible - the we refers to me and my tapeworm -or did I make him up too- at 100 who knows - also - FYI - I really don't live on the 50 yard line of the Univ of Oregon football stadium -

Last edited by maicaw; 12-27-2005 at 02:47 PM..
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Old 01-02-2006, 01:44 PM   #25  
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Posted By John C. Kosick - "(our president).....doesn't make laws...CONGRESS does."

However, the President has to sign the laws into effect.
The President's roll in lawmaking is VERY large.
Congress does not have carte blanc you know.

When the President vetoes a bill, it will most likely never become a law. Congress can override a veto, but to do so two-thirds of both the House of Representatives and the Senate must vote against the President.
The odds of that happening are usually between slim and none...and slim left town.

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Old 01-02-2006, 03:38 PM   #26  
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The President also has to FOLLOW the laws, even when inconvenient, and he is sworn to defend the CONSTITUTION, with it's checks and balances, which is NOT "just a piece of paper"!
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Old 01-02-2006, 04:59 PM   #27  
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Posted By R. Sawdey - "The President also has to FOLLOW the laws..."

Well, yeah...so does everyone in America. That kind of goes without saying.

P.S. - How are things in Ferndale, MI?
I used to live in the Metro Detroit area and would occasionally stop at White Castles in Ferndale on Woodward near 8 Mile for a sack of "Whiteys."

Regards,
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Old 01-03-2006, 03:03 PM   #28  
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I visited my in-laws for a couple of weeks over the Christmas vacation. They are using an old 19 or 20" CRT to watch their TV. Upgrading to a HD TV would be out of the question for them. If they had to, they could save up and get a $90 converter for their TV to convert digital to analog, however it would be a significant expense for them. They are paying for the Direct TV service, so I guess they would automatically get a conversion box from Direct TV when it was required.

The point of this post, though, is to point out that there are plenty of people, especially in small town USA, where money is tight, and they will not be happy when the government forces them to pay more money to get the same service that they have always gotten before. Elections are normally determined by less than 5% of the voters, so ticking off 16% of the population would be political suicide for a politician. If politicians did nothing to help that 16%, politicians would decide that it would be safer to do nothing. Let the market slowly switch from analog to digital over a period of 40 years. In that scenario, government would stay out of the switch, and wouldn't need to pay a cent for the conversion. I am certainly a supporter of a limited government that spends money on only the essential parts of society that the government was formed to do (defense, law enforcement, education, etc), however I am willing to make an exception for the digital conversion. The knowledge that the government will make money in the conversion makes it an easier pill to swallow as well.
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Old 01-04-2006, 07:16 AM   #29  
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The point of this post, though, is to point out that there are plenty of people, especially in small town USA, where money is tight, and they will not be happy when the government forces them to pay more money to get the same service...

Well, those are the types of things that cause people to justify stealing cable and/or satellite service.
They get to the point where they feel as if companies are literally stealing from them, and in fact have a license to steal from them, so they turn the tables and begin stealing from the companies...thus leveling the playing field.

Similar to people getting fed up with record companies charging exorbitant prices and making huge profits from CD's.
Then, when file sharing came on the scene, millions of these fed up people began taking and giving music for free...thus leveling the playing field.

I'm not saying whether this does or does not reflect my personal viewpoints...I'm just making an observation.

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Old 01-04-2006, 07:27 AM   #30  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbinck
It would be better to leave politics to forums that deal with politics, unless the politics have a bearing on HDTV.
Nuff Said?
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