High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition News & Informative Articles Get the Latest High Definition News & Informative Articles Here! Please post newsworthy information here only! This forum is NOT for your first post. Thank you!

HDTV Is Here, Really

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-07-2005, 06:29 PM   #1  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Cass's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado Springs & Denver
Posts: 1,137
Default HDTV Is Here, Really

HDTV Is Here, Really
Cass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2005, 06:44 PM   #2  
Miss-Ti, World's BEST Cat
 
CatManDoo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,827
Thumbs up Can o' worms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass
Oh, no! Here we go again:
Will It Input 1080P ?


1080p: A Discussion
Let the debate begin....

Quote:
Plasma showed off the first 1080p 50-inch diagonal plasma display panel (PDP) TV, along with a 65-inch 1080p PDP. Most plasma sets are 720p, which counts as HD, or 480p, which is sub-HD enhanced definition and the best a current DVD player can output. Answers to the most common questions about the Panasonic TVs are: Yes, they're dazzling; no, there's no date for their distribution in the U.S. And "less than $10,000" is the only guidance Panasonic offers for the price of the TH-65PX500 model, a 65-inch model, that will ship in November 2005. The unpriced TH-50PX500 follows later. The 65-inch 1080p set has approximately the same cell density (the equivalent of monitor dot pitch) as a 37-inch 720p set. The higher resolution means you sit closer to the set without seeing individual pixels a viewing distance of three times the display height is good, says Panasonic, or six feet for a 50-inch sit that is has a display about 25 inches high. And that provides a "movie theater" experience with a 45-degree viewing angle.
Nevertheless, it was an interesting article, especially with the anticipated release dates and prices. Thanks Cats!
CatManDoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 05:55 AM   #3  
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1
Default

1080p HDTV sets are a completely waste there's no device that will ouput at that resolution so why even bother.
digitaldiamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 05:18 PM   #4  
Mr. Wizard
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ferndale, Michigan
Age: 71
Posts: 5,981
Default

Wrong. PCs can output that res without breaking a sweat. There are already 2 of the 18 ATSC formats which are 1080p at 24 and 30 fps. Broadcasters are considering use of 1080p/24 for movie broadcasts.

The main advantage of a 1080p/60 display is that it can display ALL 18 ATSC formats without dataloss or PQ compromise. All the spatial res of 1080i/30 and temporal res of 720p/60.
RSawdey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 05:37 PM   #5  
Miss-Ti, World's BEST Cat
 
CatManDoo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,827
Question Doesn't hurt to have it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSawdey
Wrong. PCs can output that res without breaking a sweat. There are already 2 of the 18 ATSC formats which are 1080p at 24 and 30 fps. Broadcasters are considering use of 1080p/24 for movie broadcasts.
The main advantage of a 1080p/60 display is that it can display ALL 18 ATSC formats without dataloss or PQ compromise. All the spatial res of 1080i/30 and temporal res of 720p/60.
So what you're saying is that even if 1080p isn't fully functional yet for DVD's and broadcasts, it doesn't hurt to have it because there will come a time when it becomes worthwhile. And in the meantime, it won't diminish optimum picture quality. Is that correct?
CatManDoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 06:02 PM   #6  
Administrator
 
rbinck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 17,001
Default

I would say so. Additionally it's like when the big screen TVs came into the stores. You wanted a set that had more than the 480 scan lines (800 line sets were popular) to eliminate the scan lines visable on the screen even though you were still looking at 480 lines.

As the article mentioned, with the 1080p sets you will be able to sit closer to the screen without seeing the individual pixels even if you are watching 480i.
rbinck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 07:04 PM   #7  
OneFormatToRuleThemAll...
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 168
Default

I'll have to dig deeper for the link where I read about Mark Cuban & CBS at this years DisplaySearch Conference. A CBS executive said they were using 1080p cameras for most of their production, and I swear he said 1080p60 but until I find the link I can't verify that.
FourK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 07:13 PM   #8  
Administrator
 
rbinck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 17,001
Default

Most likely it is 1080p/60fps as it allows their content to be sold to 720p/60fps broadcasters as well as using every other frame to interlace 1080i. I also read somewhere that ABC/ESPN sports were using 1080p/60fps cameras as well. It makes sense because they can use common trucks for both 1080i and 720p broadcasts. That makes the support equipment like sol-mo and graphics the same without conversions from format to format until final distribution.
rbinck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 07:40 PM   #9  
OneFormatToRuleThemAll...
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 168
Default

Here we go, I was a little off...
Quote:
The rebuttal came from CBS vp-engineering and advanced technology, Robert Seidel. "CBS is fanatical about preserving picture quality." "From the start," Seidel said, "we have insisted that everything be acquired in 1920X1080." At the CBS film lot in Hollywood, Seidel said, 23 of the sound stages are equipped for 1920X1080P/24. Moreover, all new cameras installed at CBS's Television City facility are 1920X180P/60, he said. "Our goal is to preserve the quality from the very first frame," he said."We have refused to lower our data rate," Seidel said, conceding that it has become a "contentious issue" with CBS program distributors. "We don't want to take it down to 14 megabits or 12 megabits. We don't believe that's quality."
FourK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2005, 08:23 AM   #10  
Administrator
 
rbinck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 17,001
Default

Do you have a link for that? Thanks.
rbinck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2005, 09:02 AM   #11  
Miss-Ti, World's BEST Cat
 
CatManDoo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,827
Smile Related link

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbinck
Do you have a link for that? Thanks.
This isn't the same link that FourK had, but it's sort of related: 1080

Quote:
"The entertainment community is headed in the direction of the 1,920 x 1,080 format, both Interlaced and Progressive," commented Robert Seidel CBS Television Network's Vice President of Engineering & Technology." For the last 5 years CBS has been using the 1920 x 1080 format for all of our HDTV programming including primetime, daytime, movies, special and sports broadcasts. Our sister network MTV produced the MTV music awards in 1,920 x 1,080 /24P. Showtime and UPN are using 1920 x 1080 as well. In fact, of the 23 HD channels or services announced to date, 20 are using the 1920 x 1080 format. If we look at the TV industry as a whole, a significant number of shows currently in production are captured in the 1920 x 1080/ 24P format for all the major networks. So the content is out there."
CatManDoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2005, 09:42 AM   #12  
OneFormatToRuleThemAll...
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 168
Default

Now I remember why I'm having trouble finding it (CED article), but several people posted it and here is one from another forum;

Quote:
I know there has been much discussion in this particular forum re: picture quality, noise, pixelation, etc. plus 1080P software availability discussions. In Wednesday's edition of Consumer Electronics Daily, A Warren Publication, dated August 24, Mark Cuban is quoted as follows:

"TV set makers are without question, the most abused, beaten up, and taken advantage of industry and it's time they stood up to program distributors who would degrade HD picture quality by multicasting, HDNet Chairman Mark Cuban told the DisplaySearch HDTV Conference in Beverly Hills on Tuesday"

Cuban said the government sits idly by as broadcasters refuse to turn back the analog spectrum, but responds to the DTV impasse by slapping set makers with a DTV tuner mandate. Cuban said set makers have been the losers in many of the "death wars" they have been involved in. The time has come for set makers to "dish it out" against program distributors and content owners that want to squeeze more channels into available bandwidth.

"That's a real problem for you guys", Cuban told set makers in the conference audience. "Hardly anyone" is talking about using MPEG codecs to enhance picture quality, Cuban said. "That means that all the work you're putting into improving picture quality is wasted. It's meaningless." Failure to "stand up" to content interests means set makers will continue to be the "red-headed stepchildren who'll be pushed around," Cuban said.

Multicast-related MPEG compression artifacts of the type Cuban described are most visible on the larger screen flat panel displays and mircodisplay rear projection TV's that are most popular at retail today,said Peter Putnam, president of Roam Consulting, Doylestown, PA. Common artifacts include "mosquito noise," usually seen around fast moving objects, such as cheerleaders on the sidelines on an NFL broadcast, he said. "Some of these artifacts are intrinsic to the display technology being used," Putnam said. "Combined with compression artifacts, they make for a pretty nasty big-screen image."

The rebuttal came from CBS vp-engineering and advanced technology, Robert Seidel. "CBS is fanatical about preserving picture quality." "From the start," Seidel said, "we have insisted that everything be acquired in 1920X1080." At the CBS film lot in Hollywood, Seidel said, 23 of the sound stages are equipped for 1920X1080P/24. Moreover, all new cameras installed at CBS's Television City facility are 1920X180P/60, he said. "Our goal is to preserve the quality from the very first frame," he said."We have refused to lower our data rate," Seidel said, conceding that it has become a "contentious issue" with CBS program distributors. "We don't want to take it down to 14 megabits or 12 megabits. We don't believe that's quality."

Cliff notes - Cuban said something that makes sense and was not a senseless rant. Kudo's to CBS for 1080P for future thinking.
FourK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 11:42 AM   #13  
Administrator
 
rbinck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 17,001
Default

Thanks, I had seen this information before and was not sure where. It would be nice to get a link for the original source, but that is some good stuff. Thanks again.
rbinck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 12:45 PM   #14  
Crabtree's Bludgeon
 
maicaw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,001
Default

I hope this hasn't been posted here too --
from a post in the AVS forum--this is right on the money IMO
Quote:
Mark Cuban: Compression Killing HD Quality
HDTV buyers get fuzzy deal, Cuban says
By Kimberly S. Johnson Denver Post
Beverly Hills, Calif. - Consumers are getting a raw deal when it comes to viewing the best quality of high-definition television possible, said Mark Cuban, co-founder and president of Denver-based HD.Net. Speaking to more than 200 members of the television-manufacturing industry last week during an HDTV conference, Cuban said most HD content is compressed or made smaller, underutilizing HDTV sets capable of showing programming with extremely high resolution.
"It's all really depressed derivatives of what we really could see," he said.
Cuban was the keynote speaker for the conference sponsored by DisplaySearch, an Austin, Texas, market-research and analysis firm for the TV-display industry.
Cable and satellite companies are compressing HD video so they can fit and send more programming over their networks. Picture quality is being sacrificed and will continue to be sacrificed, Cuban said.
"It's your turn for your industry to stand up and say something, or else you're going to be the redheaded stepchildren that keep on getting kicked around," he said.
He urged manufacturers to speak up and demand that cable, satellite and even movie companies allow for the picture quality the sets are designed to show.
"Right now, everybody is looking at compression to squeeze more channels in. No one is talking about using compression to come out with a better picture," he said. "It means all that work you're putting into picture quality is going to become worthless."
Nearly 2 million HDTVs have been sold this year, up 28 percent from all of 2004, according to the NPD Group, a market-research firm.
Manufacturers need to have more control over how HD content is displayed in retail showrooms. Cuban said 15 percent to 17 percent of people who purchase HDTVs return them because they're not satisfied with their viewing experience.
"That goes to presentation on the salesroom floor," he said. "Showing decent standard definition and amazing high-def, you're going to sell more and consumers are going to keep them."

Last edited by maicaw; 10-10-2005 at 12:52 PM..
maicaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 01:16 PM   #15  
Crabtree's Bludgeon
 
maicaw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,001
Default

I guess it had been --Speaking at a conference, the president of Denver-based HD.Net says high-def picture quality is being wasted, thanks to providers.-- http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost...04&postcount=1 but the link had expired -delete it or move it to that thread if need be-- here's an interesting pdf - some of it near the end about the present HDTV market http://www.tech-notes.tv/Archive/tech_notes_111.pdf

Last edited by maicaw; 10-10-2005 at 01:25 PM..
maicaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


to HDTV Is Here, Really
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is 1080 really worth it? Some Basic Questions. Doyle Lonnigan Flat-Panel TVs 6 08-28-2008 02:51 PM
Is this really true? paul123 DirecTV Forum 24 03-26-2007 08:09 AM
Why HDTV is Useless jagzjagz The High Definition Lounge 9 03-25-2006 06:38 PM
New HDTV, is this a good one? darktidus Rear-Projection TVs 6 08-18-2005 04:58 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:00 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands