High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition News & Informative Articles Get the Latest High Definition News & Informative Articles Here! Please post newsworthy information here only! This forum is NOT for your first post. Thank you!

The End of Free

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-13-2010, 02:10 PM   #16  
Wii 480p looks good to me
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker View Post
Because you are deliberately narrowing your view to just what you personally want.
No actually I'm not. If the FCC said they were selling-off broadcast channels 2-51 in order to give everyone free fiber connections (funded by the corporations), I'd not be thrilled but I'd be okay with it, because it would benefit all Americans to have 100 Mbit/s or greater connections. ----- Likewise I'd be in favor of this current plan too, if it had benefit. BUT I don't see how poor or middle class Americans will benefit from being forced to subscribe to ~$100 cellphone based TV/streaming video (if they want to see anything decent).

If YOU can explain to me how millions of americans, who are facing economic challenges, will benefit from getting a ~$100 a month bill instead of the current free service, PLEASE do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker View Post
My speculation would leave your parents with 4 channels, which could contain 8 or so different television stations, 4 HD + 4 SD; more than adequate variety afaic
Your speculation about my parents is insulting. I just TOLD you what they get on the 2 to 30 range. Stations 8 and 15. That's it. All the other open channels are occupied by other stations in Philly or Baltimore, and they can not be used in my parents' town. To claim that's wrong or "tough shit" (not you but others have said that) is an insult to my parents and all other people with limited income.
Quote:
My interest here is in labeling it as biased, and making it clear that it is biased,
YOUR view is biased too. You love cellphones (as proved by your posting history). You want more cellphones and more cell-based laptops, and drool over the idea of using your iGadgets on channels 2 to 51. You are biased out the ying-yang, just as surely as FOX News is pro-republican, or MSNBC is pro-DNC.

Like the reporters on those channels you are trying to pretend you are unbiased, but it's simply not true. The reporters have bias and so do you. You are pro-"give all TV channels to cellular".

Last edited by electrictroy; 07-13-2010 at 02:39 PM..
electrictroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 07:58 PM   #17  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Goofnut View Post
But that 10% is increasing. We already have statistics from May that show us that 1 in 8 U.S. households cut their cable or satellite subscription in favor of OTA. That survey also indicated that the number is rapidly decreasing and that they expect it to be 1 in 5 in the next couple years. I personally ditched satellite back in April because I was tired of paying $97 a month or nearly $1200 a year for two HD receivers with only one being an HD DVR and that's with absolutely no premium channels.
Lots of people are getting fed up with these pricey cable and satellite subscriptions and are going back to OTA TV. With a rooftop antenna and a Netflix subscription, you can get most of what's available on cable or satellite for a fraction of the price. Add a HTPC and you have the same DVR capabilities you get with your cable or satellite DVR (and some additional features as well). You'll get better-quality HD, and you can watch movies without the annoying channel bugs that many of the premium channels now have.

It's possible that some spectrum will be taken away, but it isn't going to affect the OTA channels most people watch. Doing so would force millions of people who are getting TV for free to pay for cable or satellite. Even if the NAB didn't have the lobbyists and influence they now have, it would still be politically impossible to eliminate broadcast TV. It just isn't going to happen.
rcoleman11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 09:23 PM   #18  
Every day is Friday
 
oblioman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hooooterville
Posts: 9,279
Default

Quote:
The companies who's interests you seek to ignore are no more influenced by money than you are - after all, isn't it just your own avarice that prompts you to try to save your over-abundant access to "free" television? Your motivations are no more noble than theirs are. And the FCC is responsible for weighing your greed against that of others who would use differently that resource that you want to dictate the use of.
What a load of bullshit. The companies we seek to ignore (your words) are profit driven. The OTA viewer, by all means is not profit driven, but more on the lean and skinny side of life. In particular, those that don't have access to komkast, Uverse, etc. As for an over abundance of OTA, and those that wish to dictate that over abundance - once again - you are a fool. The OTA spectrum has been diminishing and will continue to shrink at the expense (opposite of profit) of the OTA users. As for greed,,,well,,,you go right ahead and watch your little videos on a 3" screen,,,get your 3g or 4g eyephone,,so you can twitter away.
oblioman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 06:14 AM   #19  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 1,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
No actually I'm not.
Of course you are. You’re deliberately being myopic, “All I see is a movement from a Superior service,” i.e., what you want, “to an inferior service,” i.e., what you don’t want or care about. Because you don’t value cellular Internet, you consider it “inferior”. Heck, you’ve even gone so far to ignore other possible uses for reallocated bandwidth, so your analysis is even more myopic than that: Essentially, just because you want what you want, you consider all other possibilities “inferior”. That’s exactly what I was saying.

Beyond that, you consider television reception over-the-air categorically “Superior” (you even capitalized the word “Superior” ), even though wired service is often just as good, if not better, in terms of quality and reliability, as well as variety and flexibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
If YOU can explain to me how millions of americans, who are facing economic challenges, will benefit from getting a ~$100 a month bill instead of the current free service, PLEASE do so.
First, you’re again looking at the situation in a ridiculously myopic manner, since the “current free service” wouldn’t go away, it would simply provide fewer choices, but still enough choices that those Americans still using it will have adequate options available to them.

Second, a lot of folks facing economic challenges are looking for work, and here is a new frontier of technology that we can build a bigger industry on, providing more high-quality jobs for Americans. That’s how America benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
Quote:
My speculation would leave your parents with 4 channels, which could contain 8 or so different television stations, 4 HD + 4 SD; more than adequate variety afaic
Your speculation about my parents is insulting.
What an inane thing to say. My speculation was about what you parents would have available to them, not about your parents. Stop with the childish flame-baiting, Troy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
I just TOLD you what they get on the 2 to 30 range.
Again, you’re looking at the situation too myopically. I told you that my speculation would leave your parents with 4 channels, which could contain 8 or so different television stations, 4 HD + 4 SD. That’s a given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
Stations 8 and 15. That's it.
No. They’d have what I said they’d have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
All the other open channels are occupied by other stations in Philly or Baltimore, and they can not be used in my parents' town.
Clearly a major reallocation of bandwidth would require a lot of moving channels around. Good thing we have PSIP now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
To claim that's wrong or "tough shit" (not you but others have said that) is an insult to my parents and all other people with limited income.
No it isn’t, because, first, you got it wrong, and second, no one said anything close to what you claim was said. You’re just frustrated that I’m making sense and you are trying to derail the discussion with feigned indignation. Again, stop with the childish flame-baiting, Troy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
YOUR view is biased too. You love cellphones (as proved by your posting history).
Huh? I love cellphones? I don’t hate them, but I don’t remember ever really supporting cellphones especially. Indeed, what I am most interested in reallocated bandwidth being used for is mobile Internet and mobile television.

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
You want more cellphones and more cell-based laptops, and drool over the idea of using your iGadgets on channels 2 to 51.
Your reckless abandonment of the truth is showing. (I don’t even know what iGadgets are. :shrug: ) Stop lying about me, Troy, just because you’re afraid that you’re not going to get your way. Get over it. You live in a community with others, and sometimes, perhaps most of the time, what they want is going to prevail over what you want.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 06:25 AM   #20  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 1,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oblioman View Post
What a load of bull****.
Why am I not surprised that you’d call reason and logic that? (Why am I not surprised that you’d stoop to using vulgarity, instead of trying to make your points in a mature manner?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oblioman View Post
The companies we seek to ignore (your words) are profit driven.
By definition and by right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oblioman View Post
The OTA viewer, by all means is not profit driven, but more on the lean and skinny side of life.
Bull. Just read Troy’s messages – they reek of personal greed, wanting what he wants, i.e., getting television FOR FREE. The pursuit of free entertainment is his objective. Greed, plain and simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oblioman View Post
As for an over abundance of OTA, and those that wish to dictate that over abundance - once again - you are a fool.
Nice way to enter the conversation. Maybe I should make some comments about how ugly your children are, or make some disparaging remarks about your religion.

The over-abundance is clear. Reliance on OTA reception is a small fraction of what it was thirty years ago, yet the bandwidth allocated for OTA reception has not shrunk anywhere close to that amount.

Do a little reading Oblio; know what you’re talking about before you post. And perhaps before you post again, think about jobs instead of your own personal free jollies.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 11:21 AM   #21  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 526
Default

People still watch OTA? Don't think I've watched OTA in over 25 years.
firsTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 06:00 PM   #22  
Wii 480p looks good to me
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,083
Default

And my question was never answered. How are my zero-income, elderly parents supposed to get by with just two stations (8 and 15) after channels 30 and up are given-away to the ATT/Verizon Duopoly? They sure as hell can't afford a Cable subscription or Cellphone-based streaming TV. Most poor and lower middle class people can't.
Quote:
I told you that my speculation would leave your parents with 4 channels
Speculation based upon what? Did you do a zipcode lookup for my parents hometown? An examination of the available channels in this area? No. You just pulled it out of thin air. You're just guessing.
Quote:
No. They’d have what I said they’d have.
And THIS is the insulting part - the arrogance. You are just GUESSING and yet you arrogantly say that you know for certain mom/dad will have 4 stations. Rude. Presumptuous. And damned annoying.
Quote:
wanting what he wants - getting television for free
And why not. I am one of the people, and the People are the Landlords of the common property we call "air" and "airwaves". As landlords we should be able to use our OWN property without having to pay for it.

The TV band only represents 1% of the total usable spectrum. It really doesn't use that much compared to other reserved banks, like the Military Band for example. Or the Shortwave band. Those are the biggest chunks, so remove some of that and give it to Cell Companies.

Last edited by electrictroy; 07-14-2010 at 06:27 PM..
electrictroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 08:10 PM   #23  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianO View Post
Unfortunately there is a serious threat to the long term existence of free OTA. That is why the NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) has been running public service ads on most OTA stations in the USA for many months to warn viewers of the threat and to encourage them to write to their congressmen to stop it from happening.
No, there isn't. The NAB has considerable political muscle and has always prevailed. How do you think the "must-carry" rules got enacted? There are also millions of consumers getting free OTA TV who would be forced to pay if free TV went away. The OTA TV channels most of us watch will not go away, ever. It's fantasyland, it will never happen.
rcoleman11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 08:12 PM   #24  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by firsTraveler View Post
People still watch OTA? Don't think I've watched OTA in over 25 years.
Lots of people watch OTA TV. About 25% of the population in the LA area watches OTA TV instead of cable or satellite.
rcoleman11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 10:17 PM   #25  
Progress Not Perfection
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,715
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
How are my zero-income, elderly parents supposed to get by with just two stations (8 and 15) after channels 30 and up are given-away to the ATT/Verizon Duopoly? They sure as hell can't afford a Cable subscription or Cellphone-based streaming TV. Most poor and lower middle class people can't.
Your example of your "zero-income, elderly parents" is anecdotal at best and "proves" nothing. Example, there are certainly people living in this country who do not have access to either OTA or cable; their only option might be satellite; but then again, they may not be able to afford satellite - what to do? Give them free satellite service?

If my parents were so poor and elderly . . . and if I were as "concerned" as you pretend to be, I'd buy it for them so they did not have to go without. But wait - I'm sure you're too poor as well.

What a bunch of hooey!
Scottnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 10:18 PM   #26  
Progress Not Perfection
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,715
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoleman11 View Post
Lots of people watch OTA TV. About 25% of the population in the LA area watches OTA TV instead of cable or satellite.
LINK???
I rather doubt that 25% of the population of LA watch OTA exclusively.
Scottnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 10:29 PM   #27  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 153
Default

is it a crime to watch free tv or something?
rantanamo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2010, 03:56 PM   #28  
Wii 480p looks good to me
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,083
Default

Scottnot: Yeah you're right. Why don't we just lead my parents and all the other poor people in this town to the showers? Frak 'em and their free tv. They don't deserve it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoleman11 View Post
There are also millions of consumers getting free OTA TV who would be forced to pay if free TV went away.
I know at least one former FCC Board Member who said, back in 2006, he'd like to see that happen. He thought the analog-to-digital transition was a waste of time and money, and the spectrum should be given to cellphone usage. He added that these people would probably get free satellite service as compensation for the lost over-the-air TV.

That actually isn't a bad plan, and better than the current one.

Last edited by electrictroy; 07-15-2010 at 04:00 PM..
electrictroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2010, 04:04 PM   #29  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 366
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post
Why don't we just lead my parents and all the other poor people in this town to the showers? Frak 'em and their free tv.
You're, what, 12 years old?

You're embarrassing yourself.
Iain1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2010, 07:38 PM   #30  
Progress Not Perfection
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,715
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain1974 View Post
You're, what, 12 years old?

You're embarrassing yourself.
Yes he is . . . incredibly so.
Scottnot is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


to The End of Free
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lessons learned? HD DVD needed a level playing field! Deja Vu High Definition Media 8 02-16-2008 08:36 AM
Ordered more HD for free? Meatpopsicle DirecTV Forum 8 01-23-2008 04:02 PM
Kmart supporting both formats. Toshiba caught in a lie quexos High Definition Media 40 11-03-2007 07:24 AM
New HD DVD Milestone ... MidnightWatche High Definition Media 124 07-13-2007 07:47 AM
What is the Best 50" Plasma HD TV in the $2000 -$3000 Range? kelrhon Flat-Panel TVs 7 02-27-2007 02:01 PM
newbie upgrading a dead computer... hockeymuggle Computers/HTPCs 31 12-11-2006 12:30 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:55 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands