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The Time is Right for a 3D Content Delivery Standard

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Old 02-02-2009, 08:45 PM   #1  
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Arrow The Time is Right for a 3D Content Delivery Standard

The Time is Right for a 3D Content Delivery Standard

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January 26th, 2009
If CES and recent press are any indication, 2009 is the year that 3D content moves seriously into the home. New 3D displays and systems were among the hottest buzz at the show, both for video and gaming content. For PCs, graphics cards are being outfitted with the needed 3D support, and new 3D-capable displays were in abundance at the show. For TV displays, manufacturers are promising 3D-capable products at little increase in cost. Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Sony, Mitsubishi and others showed off 3D displays on the show floor. Eager to attract more theatergoers, film studios have a significant backlog of 3D titles they will release to cinemas, both new and re-processed, including the Star Wars saga. This increased awareness makes for a "perfect storm" of new consumer product rollout — content, hardware, and affordability.

What is missing, however, is a convenient and immediate way to deliver the content to the home. By far, the medium with the highest penetration is the DVD, but its bandwidth cannot support the data rate needed for viable 3D playback. Blu-ray is the logical candidate for a medium, and 3D content could be the shot-in-the-arm that the format needs to lift sluggish disc sales and rentals. Two powerhouses — Panasonic and Dolby — have announced at CES solutions for a 3D Blu-ray format, but here’s the rub: they’re not compatible, and the differences are like apples-and-oranges.

The Panasonic system, called the 3D Full HD (3D FHD) Plasma Home Theater System, delivers full 1080p left- and right-sided images all the way from recording to playback and display. The company has also developed the authoring technology needed to produce the discs. However, 3D content encoded with this process cannot be played back on existing Blu-ray players, and this means that a new 3D Blu-ray Disc (BD) player and disc encoding format is required. Panasonic will soon ask the BD Association to standardize their 3D approach - but this takes time and requires a consensus for final acceptance.


Dolby, however, is proposing a different approach to encoding 3D content, using the existing standard Blu-ray disc medium and standard Blu-ray players. The technique uses diagonally-subsampled versions of the left and right images, which are then re-integrated into complete frames, a method called "checkerboarding" (or more technically, quincunx spatial subsampling). The technique is compatible with current popular online and downloadable file formats, and uses a similar data footprint as a standard Blu-ray movie. In addition, it does not require changes to the Blu-ray, HDMI or MPEG specifications, and, according to Dolby, does not require an external decoder box. The same encoded content can be output in checkerboard to a DLP 3DTV set or in line interleaved to a micro-pol type LCD 3DTV (the user must specify the output format in the current implementation, but this could be automated in the future). While the Dolby system does not offer the "full-HD-resolution" promoted by Panasonic, the presentation quality could be sufficient to support a viable 3D experience.

While the choice of a disc format may be separable from alternate delivery channels such as Internet downloading, it does affect the display. DLP-based PTVs that support the "checkerboard" format are already in the market, and new 120Hz displays could be developed that support both this and the full-HD format, again at little incremental cost. But a format war would be disastrous to the 3D concept, given the current state of the economy. Without assurance that their purchased format will have viability, few consumers would be willing to shell out for a device that could quickly become obsolete. And waiting for a standard (or worse, building a product without it), will create further uncertainty, when some manufacturers are ready to roll out product now. Perhaps the best migration path would be to start with the checkerboard format and add a full-HD format later, as a standard matures. We can’t afford a disc format war this year.
http://displaydaily.com/2009/01/26/t...very-standard/
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:51 AM   #2  
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The big problem with the Panasonic solution means you not only have to replace your screen, but also your player for their system to work, and that is IF they can get the BDA to go along with that.

The big problem with the Dolby solution is that most RPTVs are no longer being made nor bought in comparison to LCD/plasma flat panels already. The question IS, will Dolby's checkerboard system work with existing flat panel displays that have a 60Hz refresh rate? Will it work with plasmas or just LCDs?

I think there MUST BE a standard for 3D to get any legs IMO.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:26 AM   #3  
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Originally Posted by PFC5 View Post
The big problem with the Panasonic solution means you not only have to replace your screen, but also your player for their system to work, and that is IF they can get the BDA to go along with that.
But it does offer the best 3D presentation. On par with what you would see at a movie thater today.

Quote:
The big problem with the Dolby solution is that most RPTVs are no longer being made nor bought in comparison to LCD/plasma flat panels already. The question IS, will Dolby's checkerboard system work with existing flat panel displays that have a 60Hz refresh rate? Will it work with plasmas or just LCDs?
It appears that you will have to buy a different display:

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or in line interleaved to a micro-pol type LCD 3DTV
But the Dolby system is less than 1920x1080.

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I think there MUST BE a standard for 3D to get any legs IMO.
SMPTE is working on it. They have a meeting this month for a first report on their progress
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:37 AM   #4  
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TDVision Pushes Home Uses for 3-D Codec

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George Winslow -- Multichannel News, 1/29/2009 9:01:31 AM MT
After introducing the first 3-D codec that was compatible with full high-definition stereoscopic broadcast and the Blu-ray format last year, TDVision Systems is now offering an optimized version of its TDVCodec for home use, according to the company's director of production marketing, Ethan Schur.

The TDVCodec is designed to allow users to "encode once and deploy anywhere," Schur said, without any loss of quality for a 3-D HD or 2-D HD versions.

"The system we have retains full HD 1920 by 1080 resolution for each eye," he said. It is backwards compatible to Blu-ray and other formats and is designed to reduce bandwidth requirements for cable, satellite and other platforms."

In theory, 3-D HD images, created by producing a version for each eye, would double the bandwidth required for an image with 1920 by 1080p resolution. But compression techniques allow the bandwidth requirements to be reduced to as little as 1.5 times those needed for 2D HD content, Shur said.

He noted that studios are already using the codec to create Blu-ray disks of daily footage for theatrical films, which can then be played on projectors in the studio's offices.

In September 2008, MagicPlay Entertainment also announced that it would release the "first ever" 3-D-ready programs on Blu-ray. Those releases are using TDVision's format.

Shur added that cable networks are exploring the idea of offering 3-D programs and that the gaming industry is particularly interested in 3-D content.

While 3-D HD has been getting a lot of buzz of late, Schur said that there are number of problems with standards, which means that glasses used for one system can't be used on another, and that some companies have taken what he believes is are short sighted approaches that reduces the quality of the image to save bandwidth.

"If you squeeze the image for the left and right eyes into one view that isn't HD," he said. "Those kinds of shortcuts are harmful to all of us. If you see this and say ‘I don't like 3-D,' then you're shooting yourself in the foot."
http://www.multichannel.com/article/..._3_D_Codec.php

Last edited by Lee Stewart; 02-03-2009 at 06:40 AM..
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:08 AM   #5  
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My daughter and I tried to watch "Chuck" in 3-D last night and within 5 minutes she told me it was giving her a headache.

IMO, 3-D has a long way to go.

If you need to change over your flatpanel and player to have the optimal, non-headache enducing 3-D experience, IMO the time is not right for a 3D content delivery standard, because in this economy, people just can't afford it. However, if they could incorporate the technology in a moderately prices player that could work on existing flat panels, their success rate would be much higher.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:10 AM   #6  
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feck 3D, give me smellovision!!
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:12 AM   #7  
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Originally Posted by iDarren View Post
feck 3D, give me smellovision!!
It would give me a reason to watch the cooking channel.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:26 AM   #8  
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Originally Posted by dsskid View Post
My daughter and I tried to watch "Chuck" in 3-D last night and within 5 minutes she told me it was giving her a headache.

IMO, 3-D has a long way to go.
That's because you were looking at a 50+ year old method of 3D - Anaglyph - which is NOT what they are going to be bringing out.

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If you need to change over your flatpanel and player to have the optimal, non-headache enducing 3-D experience, IMO the time is not right for a 3D content delivery standard, because in this economy, people just can't afford it. However, if they could incorporate the technology in a moderately prices player that could work on existing flat panels, their success rate would be much higher.
You may not need a new BD player, but unless you have a DLP HDTV, you are going to need a new HDTV. Just like when they introduced true 24P capability - you needed a new HDTV to take advantage of it.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:40 AM   #9  
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Originally Posted by dsskid View Post
IMO, 3-D has a long way to go.
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
That's because you were looking at a 50+ year old method of 3D - Anaglyph - which is NOT what they are going to be bringing out.
Which is why I said that they have a long way to go, perhaps I should have finished the sentence with for it to become mainstream in J6P's household, which I thought was understood.

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Originally Posted by dsskid View Post
If you need to change over your flatpanel and player to have the optimal, non-headache enducing 3-D experience, IMO the time is not right for a 3D content delivery standard, because in this economy, people just can't afford it. However, if they could incorporate the technology in a moderately prices player that could work on existing flat panels, their success rate would be much higher.
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
You may not need a new BD player, but unless you have a DLP HDTV, you are going to need a new HDTV. Just like when they introduced true 24P capability - you needed a new HDTV to take advantage of it.
What part of my sentence didn't you understand?

Average 50 inch flatpanel...approx $1200 - $1500.
Average BD player...approx $250

Which do you think would be an easier sell in this economy?
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:06 AM   #10  
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Originally Posted by dsskid View Post
Which is why I said that they have a long way to go, perhaps I should have finished the sentence with for it to become mainstream in J6P's household, which I thought was understood.


True 3D isn't available to the consumer. OF COURSE they have a long way to go. They aren't even at the starting gate yet.

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What part of my sentence didn't you understand?

Average 50 inch flatpanel...approx $1200 - $1500.
Average BD player...approx $250

Which do you think would be an easier sell in this economy?
It is obvious that you don't understand the technology that is required to make true 3D work in the home. If you did - then you wouldn't have written what you did.

The existing HDTV's can't do true 3D (except DLP HDTV's)



The only 3D that does work with existing HDTV's is the Anaglyph method which sucks big time.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:35 AM   #11  
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TDVision is the owner of several 3D related patents and proprietary system architectures that will help propel the True 3D media breakthrough.

Our technology allows true 3D content to be acquired directly using our TDVCam. The content is stored, deployed over existing digital pipelines using our TDVCodec, and processed by an ordinary PC using our Dejaview and AlterSpace applications. For Videogames and other computer generated content, the 3D information is emulated in realtime with our TDVirtualCam algorithm. For off the shelf devices and set top boxes, all you need is a firmware update. We call this platform to be TDVReady.

The resulting image is then displayed in a gamut of options, being the one of our preference the TDVisor. Three resolutions are available: 800 x 600 , 1024 x 768 and1280 x 720p.

As if this was not impressive enough, we have enabled our 3D platform to be display agnostic, so our platform can drive the new Samsung 3D Ready (tm) and the Mitsubishi 3D Ready (tm) monitors using the Texas Instruments DLP 3D technology as well as any other 3D monitor or stereo projection system without any hardware changes, just add our software or our firmware update. The user has now the freedom of choice to select the 3D or 2D display method of their preference, so TDVision can enable [email protected] today.

We firmly believe that our true 3D HMD TDVisor is the best way to provide the brain with close-to-reality images in a portable, multipurpose, low cost and High Definition device. We can really immerse the user into the action.

We have been watching television and playing games in 2D for the past 60 years. No matter how large the screen size, no matter how high the resolution of the device it will never be true to life, until now. TDVision's technology can take the user into the action and feel like you're right there into the game, on the field.
Providing 720p resolution, 108" diagonal equivalent screen and true 3D (no flickering, no loss in pixel resolution and no side effects) it's like looking at a real image or scene through a window. Games take a completely different meaning and perspective- you're there! The weight is only 6 oz. and do not represent a problem, they fit on top of your prescription glasses and you can even adjust the intra ocular distance or the dioptrics on the TDVisor, so it's your personal viewing device.

The Videogame industry has strived to provide the video gamer with high quality and realistic images by adding physics, textures and making the game more natural, but they have to present all this in a 2D monitor. Video gamers have always wanted to be into the game, but the 2D monitor has been the biggest barrier. TDVision can erase the line between reality and virtual environments, we don't even call it virtual reality, we call it AlterSpace: a place where you can live, work, play and interact in true 3D, just as if you were really there. Seeing is believing, and all the persons who have seen our technology are now believers and supporters of our technology.

TDVision is pretty much what happened with audio going from mono to stereo: Once you use it you don't want to go back to your old 2D monitor. With TDVision you can be anywhere, do anything, anytime, get into any game, travel in space and time, it's like a teletransporter. Our world is 3D, don't go for less.

At TDVision we believe in the great benefits of taking 3D TDVision technology to the PC market, opening a whole new array of opportunities for PC-based videogames, design studios, and giving a boost to HUIs (human user interface) allowing the user to get a true immersive perception of their work environments, creating a new GUI and taking advantage of the huge changes to be made in the latest version of Windows Vista.

Since the first PC interface (DOS), many improvements had been made and we are convinced that TDVision is the next step, not only for PC's, but also for TV, DTV and Videogame consoles. We believe this convergence will occur in the near term. No more 2-D flat screens. TDVision can provide the final user immediately with an immersive environment right in their own homes and offices at a reasonable price
http://www.tdvision.com/

The TD Vision Visor:

http://www.tdvision.com/tdvisor.php

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Old 02-03-2009, 10:03 AM   #12  
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True 3D isn't available to the consumer. OF COURSE they have a long way to go. They aren't even at the starting gate yet.



It is obvious that you don't understand the technology that is required to make true 3D work in the home. If you did - then you wouldn't have written what you did.

The existing HDTV's can't do true 3D (except DLP HDTV's)



The only 3D that does work with existing HDTV's is the Anaglyph method which sucks big time.
I made that statement not because I don't understand how the technology works, but because we know the spending habits of the average consumer.

If they don't develop a 3D format whereby the consumer can do an "add-on" to their existing displays, they are wasting their time and it will forever me considered a niche' market. 2D will be "good enough".

Flat panel displays are in, and have been replacing DLP and RP displays for quite some time.

Last edited by dsskid; 02-03-2009 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:19 AM   #13  
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I made that statement not because I don't understand how the technology works, but because we know the spending habits of the average consumer.
Who BTW are paying more to see 3D presentations in the theater today. As much as $5 a ticket more.

And cutting edge technology has never been for the masses. They get the technology years after it enters the market - just like HDTV's.

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If they don't develop a 3D format whereby the consumer can do an "add-on" to their existing displays, they are wasting their time and it will forever me considered a niche' market. 2D will be "good enough".
It isn't going to happen - take that one to the bank and cash it. You are going to need a new display.

And keep in mind that there are just a handful of true 3D movies that could even be sold to the consumer.

Quote:
Flat panel displays are in, and have been replacing DLP and RP displays for quite some time.
True - but there will be an existing base of HDTV owners that could begin watching true 3D movies right away - without the expense of buying a new 3D HDTV. Plus you have all the DLP FPTV's as potential 3D consumers.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:30 AM   #14  
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I hope something gets done. I watched "Chuck" last night in 3D and was very unimpressed. I would have preferred the normal 1080i broadcast.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:36 AM   #15  
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Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
I hope something gets done. I watched "Chuck" last night in 3D and was very unimpressed. I would have preferred the normal 1080i broadcast.

No sh!t. i think that's why they ran an ad that let you know you could watch the non-3D online.
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