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Better than Blu ray?

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Old 03-07-2008, 11:46 PM   #1  
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Default Better than Blu ray?

1080p is the new Holy Grail of HDM, but there are discussions about the even higher resolution formats available (4k?)

I don't think 1080p will be toppled as the home video premium resolution for a long time (if ever) because the vast amount of people will not be able to tell the difference with 4k resolution (not speaking from experience but what I have read on the matter).

According to many industry experts, the average consumer can only see a benefit in 1080p if his/her display device is over 46 inches, and then some say not much. I personally watch on an 80 inch screen and I can see an enormous improvement, but I think I am in the minority (size wise).

Now if 1080p is not a noticable improvement under 46 inches, and only incrementally better as the size goes up, what benefit will even higher resolution be? Surely even on an 80 inch screen it will be barely noticable?

So I'm guessing the experimental higher resolution formats will only ever be used for special commercial purposes like giant sports stadium and concert screens etc.

Please discuss.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:58 PM   #2  
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1080p looks great on displays that are 37" or above.
1080p looks awesome on displays that are 46" or above.
1080p looks phenomonal on displays that are 65" or above.

From what I've been reading 1440p is not that far away, but I think 1080p is here to stay for a very long time.
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:08 AM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super XP View Post
1080p looks great on displays that are 37" or above.
1080p looks awesome on displays that are 46" or above.
1080p looks phenomonal on displays that are 65" or above.

From what I've been reading 1440p is not that far away, but I think 1080p is here to stay for a very long time.
But Super XP, I thought I was just reading a post by you in another thread that said 1080p on Blu ray was barely an improvement over Standard Def What is your point?
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:39 AM   #4  
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I think 1080i/p will be the status quo for a long time, just as 480i/p was before. The broadcast/cable infrastructure is being built upon this new resolution, and I don't think the next upgrade will come for years.

There may be a handful of displays and pj's that will exceed this resolution and upscale the 1080 source to whatever native resolution the display happens to support natively, but I think the industry is resting on 1080 for the coming years.

Aren't we spoiled?

BTW I think 1080 lines of resolution is going to be an upgrade at any display size. Small displays benefit from pixel density as much as large displays do.
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:44 AM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDarren View Post
But Super XP, I thought I was just reading a post by you in another thread that said 1080p on Blu ray was barely an improvement over Standard Def What is your point?

I believe it is 46 inches or less you can't tell the difference between BD/HD DVD and upconverted DVD. SR should bring that up to 51 3/8 inches = no difference. These are SXPs thoughts of course.
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Old 03-08-2008, 01:09 AM   #6  
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4K is currently being pushed as the new standard for digital projection in movie theaters. I believe a difference could be seen there but I'm unsure of what the difference would be to the eye. 4K features 2160 lines in 1.88:1 instead of 1.77:1 (16x9), so it is essentially in the Scope format for the big screen. It has four times the amount of pixels of 1080p, so it wouldn't be as big of a difference from 480i/p to 1080p (6x).

I'm interested to see the real difference between upconverted DVD and BD when (and if) they begin releasing 1080p TVs in much smaller packages like 23". Right now we only have 720p TVs in that size to make judgements upon and you certainly won't see as big of a difference between those two.
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Old 03-08-2008, 01:16 AM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDarren View Post
But Super XP, I thought I was just reading a post by you in another thread that said 1080p on Blu ray was barely an improvement over Standard Def What is your point?
Found it
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Originally Posted by Super XP View Post
I would have to strongly agree with you on this. I too have been testing several SD DVD's and up-converting them to 1080p.

BUT!!!!! If you compare HD DVD/Blu-Ray vs. Up-Scaled SD DVD 1080p with a 46+ HDTV, yes HD DVD/Blu-Ray would kill SD DVD up-scales, any HDTV smaller in size no difference
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Old 03-08-2008, 01:27 AM   #8  
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i'm sure everyone is aware of that chart with distance, size of display, and whether or not you can see a difference between 480, 720, and 1080. i just thought of this because if you can't tell the difference between these resolutions, Blu Ray has capped the potential in terms of max resolution that matters. this leads me to believe that Blu Ray (and HD DVD) really is the pinnacle in terms of conventional in home movie technology. unless something comes out that provides equal PQ and AQ while also being more convenient in some way, Blu Ray is not going to be replaced.

unless of course 3D movies or some other breakthrough occurs in movie-watching.
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Old 03-08-2008, 06:29 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatt View Post
I believe it is 46 inches or less you can't tell the difference between BD/HD DVD and upconverted DVD. SR should bring that up to 51 3/8 inches = no difference. These are SXPs thoughts of course.

Not true at all. A mate of mine has a 42" set and the difference between upconverted DVD and Broadcast quality HD at 1080I is clear to see. 1080P BD & HD DVD would look even sharper.
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:11 AM   #10  
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Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post
Not true at all. A mate of mine has a 42" set and the difference between upconverted DVD and Broadcast quality HD at 1080I is clear to see. 1080P BD & HD DVD would look even sharper.
+1 It is very easy to tell Sd from HD on my 40 inch screen. So much in fact, I don't watch SD any longer due to sharp quality of HD.
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:42 AM   #11  
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Found it
So much for no personal attacks. What is your agenda here at HDF? To find fault with every HD DVD supporter and prove them wrong? It is not necessary nor welcome.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:07 AM   #12  
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Fact - 95% of all HDTV's in the wild are 60" or less. They will not benefit from Super HD (that is what 4000x2000 has been labeled)

The actual standard for SHD as set down by the DCI is 4000x2000x24P at 12 bit color with 4:4:4

Here is a picture of the new Panasonic SHD 150" Plasma Set that was shown at CES:



We have had NTSC since 1953. We will continue to live with it for at least another 10 years if not longer (though we are making the transition to ATSC - the parimeters of the format are the same as NTSC as far as resolution, color depth, etc.)


We implemented HDTV in 1998. It is just 10 years old. IMO you will not see another consumer format that exceeds HDTV for at least 15 years and probably more on the order of 20 to 25 years.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:11 AM   #13  
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I think 1080p will be the de facto resolution in the home for a very long time, which is why I'm not in the slightest bit uncomfortable purchasing HD DVDs even with the format now being dead. In fact, now is a better time for me to buy HD DVDs than ever really. Where else am I going to get a physical 1080p encode of the Kubrick Collection for under £40?

The reason 480i/p stayed standard so long wasn't because it wasn't possible to do any better. High Definition has been around a good 20 years. heck Laser Disc supported HD in Japan. This is why I'm not concerned in the slightest by the new currently in development higher resolution standards. It's going to be decades before they become mainstream, Sony are currently working hard making Blu-ray the new standard for recording TV etc (at studios). 4ks use will be in cinemas, making the difference in quality really noticible between home and cinema will be crucial in keeping cinema attendance up.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:15 AM   #14  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4HD View Post
So much for no personal attacks. What is your agenda here at HDF? To find fault with every HD DVD supporter and prove them wrong? It is not necessary nor welcome.
How was that a personal attack in the first place? If quoting what someone said 2-3 weeks ago is a personal attack, you're in bad shape. Could you point out anywhere previously in this thread where I called someone any name or something else? Second, are you the HDF police? If more of YOU would speak out against these off the wall, made up, silly posts I would certainly defer to YOU, until then I will play with them at my leisure. Finally, put me back on your ignore list, I really don't know why you are unable to keep me on there since my posts are so offensive to HDF at large. How many times have I been on it? At least two I remember. Why did I come off, I didn't change?
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:39 AM   #15  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatt View Post
How was that a personal attack in the first place? If quoting what someone said 2-3 weeks ago is a personal attack, you're in bad shape. Could you point out anywhere previously in this thread where I called someone any name or something else? Second, are you the HDF police? If more of YOU would speak out against these off the wall, made up, silly posts I would certainly defer to YOU, until then I will play with them at my leisure. Finally, put me back on your ignore list, I really don't know why you are unable to keep me on there since my posts are so offensive to HDF at large. How many times have I been on it? At least two I remember. Why did I come off, I didn't change?
Sure, play innocent. Go ahead, keep the problems going.. it's your leisure.
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