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A Plea for a Unified, Blu Future

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Old 01-15-2008, 11:14 AM   #46  
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I've been saying this for the last year. HD-DVD was in a much better position for mass adoption relatively quickly. Say what you want about having only one major CE manufacturer supporting a format, but with one manufacturer, they drive the prices. So if Toshiba really wants to bite the bullet and come out on top they could announce the A-3 for $79. The BDA with its multiple CE partners is in no such position. And the other great thing... ALL players have to conform to a standard.

The BDA has a problem, and that is Profiles. The BDA needed to come out with Profile 1.1 compliant players from Day 1, not two years after the fact. It's going to be very interesting come the Holidays when people start picking up these old 1.0 players on clearance (because they will be the cheapest models on the market) and they find they can't access Special Features advertised on discs they purchased, or they can't access Web Features. Some people will have problems even accessing the movie.

So what happens? People with either return these movies thinking they don't work, or after multiple returns they will conclude their player is broken... it's going to be so much fun.


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Old 01-15-2008, 11:19 AM   #47  
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Default I'll go BD when ......

The two reasons I went with HD-DVD first were:
(1) Price was right,
(2) Specs were completed

I will buy BD when the price drops some more (preferably closer to $200) and the specs are completed (I asume that 2.0 is complete). The price is negotiable, the completed specs are not.

Sadly, I now feel that if HD-DVD dies, the entire high def format is doomed to be a niche format. Maybe it was from the beginning.

HD-DVD was the best shot IMO to make progress with Joe Public, who will ulitmately determine if high def movies succeed or fail. It is probably appropriate that this thread got off topic talking about laser disks, since that is where I see BD ending up. The latest version of the laser disk.

Until BD meets my price / final specs criteria, I will continue to buy HD-DVD movies and only HD-DVD movies.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:24 AM   #48  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLedford View Post
The two reasons I went with HD-DVD first were:
(1) Price was right,
(2) Specs were completed

I will buy BD when the price drops some more (preferably closer to $200) and the specs are completed (I asume that 2.0 is complete). The price is negotiable, the completed specs are not.

Sadly, I now feel that if HD-DVD dies, the entire high def format is doomed to be a niche format. Maybe it was from the beginning.

HD-DVD was the best shot IMO to make progress with Joe Public, who will ulitmately determine if high def movies succeed or fail. It is probably appropriate that this thread got off topic talking about laser disks, since that is where I see BD ending up. The latest version of the laser disk.

Until BD meets my price / final specs criteria, I will continue to buy HD-DVD movies and only HD-DVD movies.
Well said and my signature reaffirms the same logical mode of thought.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:28 AM   #49  
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the notion that "all products come down in price" is a ridiculous blanket statement - someone needs to review their economics material. There are 1,001 examples of where this isn't true.
Hey the PS3 is coming down in price, so what if they have to keep reducing it's features in order to do so.

Oh, can someone PM me when Paramount or Universal either leaves HD DVD or releases their movie schedules? It's getting really hard to find any release info on this forum what with all the troll posts, and I wouldn't be surprised if AVS started locking those threads too.

Last edited by Dr. Jones; 01-15-2008 at 11:33 AM..
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:47 AM   #50  
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The trouble with the PS3 is the audio side, i.e no support for the HD audio formats. I'd probably get one if it could output the lossless audio streams. My HD A35 can so I expect the same from any blu-ray player I buy.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:56 AM   #51  
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The trouble with the PS3 is the audio side, i.e no support for the HD audio formats. I'd probably get one if it could output the lossless audio streams. My HD A35 can so I expect the same from any blu-ray player I buy.
That's always the snag isn't it. Buying a player that offers less to replace a player that offers more doesn't really seem like a smart choice to anyone.
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:10 PM   #52  
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Dare what do you mean by this?
It's just a vibe I'm picking up. It started with forums, bloggers, and editorials (basically people's opinions), and now an analyst is saying it. And why not? It's true. Both sides did lose, Blu-ray hasn't demonstrated that it has what it takes to succeed with regards to the high supply side cost and low demand, and with HD-DVD's decline HDM is in fact in trouble.
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:25 PM   #53  
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By the time Blu-Ray is competitive with DVD in pricing their opportunity will have passed. And when you have 295 million Americans who basically believe that SD DVD is just fine, it means HDM on Optical Disk loses out.

HD DVD needed to win to push HDM into consumer's homes because of it's low pricing and completed feature-set.

Remember the BDA is still working on a finalized profile and every single one of the CE's involved are adamant about making a healthy profit on their players, which means that player prices will remain high as they continue to offer "new" features that HD DVD had from day 1.

Sony can't subsidize everything to bring prices down fast enough to make Blu-ray competitive. They just don't have pockets that deep. They've bet the farm on the PS3 and Blu-ray, they've recently sold a huge asset (Cell processing plant) to Toshiba for 600 million dollars which was probably used to make payments to Warner Bros. and Fox.

Blu-ray is running out of money, they have to win soon because they have creditors of their own that they owe hundreds of millions of dollars to. They borrowed to the hilt for the PS3 and Blu-ray. Which means they can't afford to keep making payouts and paying for bogos forever. Sooner or later the dollars have to start rolling back in.

This is all speculation of course.
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:37 PM   #54  
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Previous postings (and recent Toshiba press release) in favour of HD DVD suggest that BD players do not upscale SD DVDs - is this the case? I thought they did!
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:38 PM   #55  
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I feel that both sides have lost (or are losing) chances to win the day. For example, right now HD-DVD is on the ropes and BD needs disk sales to upspike so that Warner doesn't regret it's choice and the other studios don't throw up their hands and go back to SD-DVD only.

Solution? Bring in the unhappy HD-DVD owners who have already proven their interest in high def movies. Offer a $100 trade-in allowance on a 2.0 Sony BD player. This would:
(1) remove a competing player from the market,
(2) pick up a proven high def movie buyer who would now buy BD,
(3) provide the boost in movie sales that could keep the studios interested in producing BD.

Toshiba needs to start selling players at cost. At $98, Walmart was selling HD-DVD players for LESS than they were selling some upconverting SD-DVD players. Get those players on the market and point out that not only do they do a great job of upconverting SD-DVD movies, but the things can also play HD-DVD high def movies as well.

Toshiba has an ethernet port that is wonderful for updating the bios in the machine. Can it be used to stream high def movies as well? The key for Toshiba is to get more player into more hands and keep the players hooked up to the televisions. If people get discouraged because of the lack of content and put the HD-DVD player in the closet, then the battle is truely over.

So what are the chances that one of these two huge corporations will do something like this? Probably not very good. Big and nimble / adjustable don't really go together, do they.
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:42 PM   #56  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post
The trouble with the PS3 is the audio side, i.e no support for the HD audio formats. I'd probably get one if it could output the lossless audio streams. My HD A35 can so I expect the same from any blu-ray player I buy.
Actually, the ps3 will decode TrueHD if I remember correctly, having previously owned one
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:48 PM   #57  
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Well for Sony it will take a long time. Can you ever remember when minidisc player/recorders were actually cheap (minus when they were being closed out off the market)? They are great in the Pro world, but are just not economically conscious for the average consumer IMO.
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:51 PM   #58  
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Originally Posted by Dare View Post
It's just a vibe I'm picking up. It started with forums, bloggers, and editorials (basically people's opinions), and now an analyst is saying it. And why not? It's true. Both sides did lose, Blu-ray hasn't demonstrated that it has what it takes to succeed with regards to the high supply side cost and low demand, and with HD-DVD's decline HDM is in fact in trouble.
The only problem with this format war is the fact that Blu-Ray is holding back HD DVD for doing what is rightfully theirs to do, succeed SD DVD.
So keep slashing prices HD DVD

The problem with Blu-Ray is price, CE's & Sony don't want to reduce the price too much just in case the format loses. They want to keep profit high while screwing the consumer and selling them an substandard format for way more than what it’s really worth.
Proof? HD DVD is superior, costs cheaper to manufacture & offers “ALOT more along with being Future Proof from the beginning all thanks to its finalized specs. Did I miss something?

Last edited by Super XP; 01-15-2008 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:59 PM   #59  
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Forbes has a follow up on Toshiba's new tactic.

http://www.forbes.com/technology/200...idcontent.html



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Old 01-15-2008, 01:14 PM   #60  
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Do they have any study for the amount of HDTVs sold? I think that would be a better proof of how the market is doing. I'm thinking that not many people even have HDTVs yet so there is really no confusion.
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