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ROLL CALL: HD DVD supporters that bought Blu

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Old 01-09-2008, 11:46 AM   #46  
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Originally Posted by apocolypse View Post
I don't think that it's "brainwashed" to wait for at least a 1.1 if not 2.0 player. After all, 1.0 doesn't offer the same functionality as a standard HD-DVD player. Now, as far as the price goes, it's dependent on the person what they're willing to pay. If someone just recently got into HD-DVD and only payed $200-250 for it, then I highly doubt that they'll pay $500 and up for the same thing. It's not "brainwashed", you're just once again posting your typical knee-jerk reactionary posts.
OK, I'm officially sick of the profile hating issues. Is that all you can say now?

Answer me this, when HD-DVD's are published in 1080p format only, what is a person who spent $250-300 on their wonderfully better HD-DVD supposed to do since it's only capable of 1080i? Or does that suddenly not matter at all? The HD-DVD fanboys are so quick to point out profile issues with BD, but never really mention that all the cheap HD-DVD players are 1080i and not true 1080p. In order to get 1080p, you have to pay $400 and up, just like BD. Toshiba is banking on consumer confusion to get people to buy lowerer level players that can't even display the full 1080p that everything is supposed to be going to. Now you have no problem with those people going out and re-buying their HD-DVD players so they can get 1080p?

I'm no advocate of either side, aside from just being fricking fed up with the battle and wishing SOMEONE would just win. I'm just getting sick of the "HD-DVD" camp on here bashing anyone vaguely interested in a serious thoughtful discussion without sledgehammer bias.

Please note in my sig that I own an HD-DVD and don't bother claiming I'm a fanboy of any kind.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:47 AM   #47  
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PFC5,

Wow ! That's what came to me as I read your post. Actually more like, "this is a REAL guy who cuts through all the BS and shares with honesty and integrity". I for one have nothing but respect and good things to say about you my friend. I hope others take the time to read your post as well, it is looong, ha ha !

I too have made my choices from a CUSTOMER point of view, but been called a fan-boy. It seems inevitable here. I went out and purchased a XA2 HD-DVD player last year after reading about the profile issues, plus I needed another DVD player. I was tired of using my (then) xbox as a player. Although it (XA2) was rather expensive, and it may in the near future be a pricey upscaler, I'm glad I bought it based on what I've read here, no regret's at all. Who knows what'll happen really anyway ?

I guess I am fortunate to come through a trieing time in my life where now I have a great family life, and a lot more disposable income than I ever imagined. So I can easily go and get a BD player, when they get it right...or IF ! I already have a 360, otherwise I would just buy a PS3 like yourself, except I play the 360 alot myself, my son has his own, ha ha ! However, and more importantly, my kid respects and loves me. I can not imagine the same not being true for you. It is worth the fight...I know.

Having said all that. It is true you where here when I joined, and I had many question's. I was just considering buying a HDTV, (in early '07) and you where a big help. I appreciate all you've offered, and I don't feel as you have steered anyone wrong, certainly not me. The discussion's you have presented have always been informative and well balanced, never filled with fud, as is common place here (fud)...unfortunately. I look forward to reading your post, and often find myself looking for replies from certain individual's, you being one of them. When I had questions about upgrading my speaker system, again there was lot's of help. Guy's like YOU make this forum work. Technology is moving so fast, no one is going to pick the next best thing 100% of the time. Hell, as we're finding out, the BEST doesn't even always prevail !

Aside from all the home theatre talk and hi-def media chatter, I can relate as a father, so I feel for you on that level too. Nothing hit's home to a man (or likely woman for that matter) more than a grievance or misunderstanding with their own child. I too have an adopted son, since he was 4, so I'm his Dad, and he has always considered me his dad. He doesn't know the "donater" and doesn't need to. My wife and I have all his history as well as his family's (for medical reason's ) and that's all that is required. Any man can father a child, it takes a MAN to raise one.

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling here now, but I just wanted to let you know I appreciated such a well thought out and carefully presented post. Sometimes these post matter not just on a tech. level, but a human level too. No matter what format a person chooses, or what part of the world they're in, we always have that in common. Good Luck going forward, although I'm sure you don't need it. As I've said, you seem like one of the "good guys", and despite popular belief in our society is, good guys DON'T finish last !

Here's to a Happy New Year, to all of you.

Looking forward to new discussion's in the hi-tech world

peace

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Old 01-09-2008, 11:52 AM   #48  
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Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
OK, I'm officially sick of the profile hating issues. Is that all you can say now?

Answer me this, when HD-DVD's are published in 1080p format only, what is a person who spent $250-300 on their wonderfully better HD-DVD supposed to do since it's only capable of 1080i? Or does that suddenly not matter at all? The HD-DVD fanboys are so quick to point out profile issues with BD, but never really mention that all the cheap HD-DVD players are 1080i and not true 1080p. In order to get 1080p, you have to pay $400 and up, just like BD. Toshiba is banking on consumer confusion to get people to buy lowerer level players that can't even display the full 1080p that everything is supposed to be going to. Now you have no problem with those people going out and re-buying their HD-DVD players so they can get 1080p?

I'm no advocate of either side, aside from just being fricking fed up with the battle and wishing SOMEONE would just win. I'm just getting sick of the "HD-DVD" camp on here bashing anyone vaguely interested in a serious thoughtful discussion without sledgehammer bias.

Please note in my sig that I own an HD-DVD and don't bother claiming I'm a fanboy of any kind.
Ever heard of deinterlacing?

No you haven't because all you are is a mouthpiece spouting BDA soundbites
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:54 AM   #49  
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Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
OK, I'm officially sick of the profile hating issues. Is that all you can say now?

Answer me this, when HD-DVD's are published in 1080p format only, what is a person who spent $250-300 on their wonderfully better HD-DVD supposed to do since it's only capable of 1080i? Or does that suddenly not matter at all? The HD-DVD fanboys are so quick to point out profile issues with BD, but never really mention that all the cheap HD-DVD players are 1080i and not true 1080p. In order to get 1080p, you have to pay $400 and up, just like BD. Toshiba is banking on consumer confusion to get people to buy lowerer level players that can't even display the full 1080p that everything is supposed to be going to. Now you have no problem with those people going out and re-buying their HD-DVD players so they can get 1080p?

I'm no advocate of either side, aside from just being fricking fed up with the battle and wishing SOMEONE would just win. I'm just getting sick of the "HD-DVD" camp on here bashing anyone vaguely interested in a serious thoughtful discussion without sledgehammer bias.

Please note in my sig that I own an HD-DVD and don't bother claiming I'm a fanboy of any kind.
No they were banking that most people have bought and are buying 720p HDTVs and don't really care about 1080p as much as price.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:58 AM   #50  
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HD DVD supporter. Already went blu before the anoucement. I love me some HDM!!
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:04 PM   #51  
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Originally Posted by hippy fascist View Post
Ever heard of deinterlacing?

No you haven't because all you are is a mouthpiece spouting BDA soundbites
Nice! For a BDA mouthpiece, why do I only have an HD-DVD player? Maybe you didn't read that part. Or maybe you don't care.

So now you are saying that HD-DVD is better because you can buy a cheaper player that doesn't have 100% of the capabilities you think it does and you get the chance to invest more money into equipment that can fix that? Whether you buy a SAL de-interlacer or spend the extra money for a set that can do it for you, you pay for it. But then you have to rely on the de-interlacer to "get it right" and are doing nothing but inserting more conversion into the mix. Ultimately resulting in errors and reduced PQ. Explain to me how that makes it better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbaker2002de View Post
No they were banking that most people have bought and are buying 720p HDTVs and don't really care about 1080p as much as price.
No they weren't. They were banking on confusion. You can make Toshiba as altruistic as you want, but it's still a business. If not banking on confusion, then why do they constantly side step this very point in all their advertising? Why do they not come outright and say, "hey if you don't need the 1080p, buy the cheaper one."

Why is it that Toshiba is the ONLY manufacturer of SAL players? That seems a bit sketchy to me personally. Why will they no license other manufacturers to make SAL players? LG is nuetral, why isn't there an LG HD-DVD only player? Toshiba. That's why.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:08 PM   #52  
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PFC5,

Wow ! That's what came to ....
*snip*

, although I'm sure you don't need it. As I've said, you seem like one of the "good guys", and despite popular belief in our society is, good guys DON'T finish last !

Here's to a Happy New Year, to all of you.

Looking forward to new discussion's in the hi-tech world

peace

macmarkus
Thanks for the great post! PFC5 was one of the first people I spoke and he welcomed me right away.

I "TRY" to remember to take the high road as PFC often suggests!
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:09 PM   #53  
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[QUOTE=mobiushky;480911]Nice! For a BDA mouthpiece, why do I only have an HD-DVD player? Maybe you didn't read that part. Or maybe you don't care.

So does chris, so does madhatter, try again...

Quote:
So now you are saying that HD-DVD is better because you can buy a cheaper player that doesn't have 100% of the capabilities you think it does and you get the chance to invest more money into equipment that can fix that? Whether you buy a SAL de-interlacer or spend the extra money for a set that can do it for you, you pay for it. But then you have to rely on the de-interlacer to "get it right" and are doing nothing but inserting more conversion into the mix. Ultimately resulting in errors and reduced PQ. Explain to me how that makes it better?
Have you compared the two side by side? I'm guessing the answer's no. You say `1080p is vital because...c'mon...you can do it...because...SONY SAID SO

The majority of 1080p TVs can de-interlace properly so that's a bit of a non issue

On top of this the vast majority of HDTVs available today only go up to 1080i

My dad bought a 40" bravia for 1000 6 months ago and thato nly goes to 1080i...
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:10 PM   #54  
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OK, I'm officially sick of the profile hating issues. Is that all you can say now?
What is your problem? I'm telling sti why some of the people here are stating what they're stating. I don't hate BD, and I've rarely posted anything about the whole profile issue...in fact this is the first post I can recall by me on it. So don't be so quick to try and jump up someone's ass over something you're assuming.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:37 PM   #55  
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What is your problem? I'm telling sti why some of the people here are stating what they're stating. I don't hate BD, and I've rarely posted anything about the whole profile issue...in fact this is the first post I can recall by me on it. So don't be so quick to try and jump up someone's ass over something you're assuming.
Apocolypse, I have to apologize, I hit quote instead of reply. That was not directed at you in any way. Please forgive.

Happy Facist, Yes. I have. And there is a difference, and more so when you expand to larger sets.

But that's beside the point. Here is the line I have issue with:

"On top of this the vast majority of HDTVs available today only go up to 1080i"

That's today, no thought what-so-ever of the future. Why would someone want to go out and buy a player knowing full well that they might have to buy a new one in a year to keep up with the current (then) technology. Isn't that the biggest argument against BD right now? Isn't that what you said is bad about BD? (For the record, I agree with you on that count.) I'm not going to buy a BD player until I can get one with at least the 2.0 profile. So I'll wait. But why lift HD-DVD up on some kind of artificial pedestal as being 100% capable out of the box all the way down the line when the truth is they aren't? The lowerer priced models don't have 100% capability for the eventual standard out of the box and won't be able to in the future. Therefore, if a person wants to get 1080p they have to spend the same $$$ as a BD player.

And de-interlacing does introduce a conversion that does not need to be there. It's a fact. It's just one more interface in the chain that can degrade the overall experience. And it's not necessary.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:40 PM   #56  
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Happy Facist, Yes. I have. And there is a difference, and more so when you expand to larger sets.

But that's beside the point. Here is the line I have issue with:

"On top of this the vast majority of HDTVs available today only go up to 1080i"

That's today, no thought what-so-ever of the future.
So you assume player tech will improve but HDTV's won't

If the vast majority these days can deinterlace, surely that number will only go up as the tech gets more widely purchased and therefore economies of scale increase...
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:44 PM   #57  
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It's kind of funny (at least to me). Before Warner's decision I was all set to go neutral once a Df player came to the market that didn't have too many bugs. I was really interested in the Sammy 5000, was just waiting to see a FW update to fix some of it's issues.

Then Warner changed all of that. I'm sure for those who supported them on HD DVD only felt like they just got kicked in the gut, I wasn't one of them. I felt (and still feel) like I trusted them and they clearly don't care about me. I have seen things like a 60/40 split in BD favor that has been shifting towards 50/50 was a reason why they decided to go Blu. I have seen things like the price of gas is high. Things like we had to do something because consumers were choosing the format they preferred formats and we couldn't have that passed off as the market will never grow.

So now I ask myself, do I want to trust Warner and other studios to not jump ship again because a wad of cash is offered for the replacement of Blu-Ray? I don't think so. I see HDM as having a limited window to get itself a secure foothold in peoples homes, J6P's home. Blu-Ray is like a shifting target. Profile 1.0 players are being replaced with 1.1 player. Now 2.0 players are being touted as the next bing thing. Hell Glow just posted how the PS3 could get a FW update so you can download a reduced rez movie onto a flash drive for use in other devices, is that going to be profile 3.0? What if Sony comes out next year and starts using the hdd in the PS3 to store whole movies from the internet? Does that mean I have to replace my SA again if it turns out that's the direction the market is headed?

People inherantly don't like changes. They want to buy a TV and have it last 10 to 20 years. They are not going to like finding out each year that their player can do something. Think about it what's the real differences between a DVD player bought 5 years ago and what you can buy today as far as what it can do?

I just see mass adoption of Blu-Ray being left to the people who like the PS3. When the format stops shifting then I'll jump on board. If the format does take off then I'll buy in. Otherwise I'll just wait. Maybe a sub $100 player will come along like the A2 and get me on board. I don't mind taking a chance at $100.

But for now my opinion is "Buyer beware"- there's too much money being thrown around with little or no regards to us trying to influence the market. What seams like solid ground today can easily sift while your standing on it leaving you sinking.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:52 PM   #58  
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So you assume player tech will improve but HDTV's won't

If the vast majority these days can deinterlace, surely that number will only go up as the tech gets more widely purchased and therefore economies of scale increase...
He's assuming all HD sources will be 1080p or thinking they should be cuz Sony tells him it is the best and he pays well for it.

Of course we are nothing but HD DVD fanboys for not buying everything Sony tries to sell...

WE MUST CHANGE or be left behind!
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:55 PM   #59  
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not to mention the fact that ALL Hd cable is in 1080i

and america seems to be loving that
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:59 PM   #60  
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If someone purchased an HD-XA2 for $600 and isn't willing to purchase a comparable Blu-ray player until the price is $127.99, that is their right. Don't try to get into a logical discussion about why that really makes little sense, they get to decide what to purchase and at what price. The truth is that 1080p player prices for both formats are already comparable.

Chris
I purchased an XA2 for $799 last January. I want a Blu-ray player that offers the same features as the XA2. Is that too much to ask? Show me the a STANDALONE Blu-ray player that has comparable chips and hardware, that is completely up to date profile wise (yes this is important to me), has an ethernet connection, has built in TrueHD and DTS-HD decoders, can upscale as well, is as highly rated for CD playback, has deep color capability, has similar build quality, and can be had for a similar price. I chose the XA2 at that price because of everything it offered, and would do the same for a Blu-ray player if one was on par. I am not looking for a Blu-ray player that can do this all for $100. I just want it to be in roughly the same price range, preferably lower since we are now a full year removed from when the prices were that high. However, can you even point me to one Blu-ray player that is truly comparable? I don't think you can. All you can point me to is a 1.1 profile player that can do 1080p and that's it.
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