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Studios/Gamers had the biggest hand in what products are available to A/V enthusiasts

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Old 01-08-2008, 10:04 PM   #1  
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Default Studios/Gamers had the biggest hand in what products are available to A/V enthusiasts

I am an HD DVD only supporter, so the Warner news was a huge blow, but losing that particular battle alone doesn't bother me that much. My HD DVD player and the titles I have, or will add to my library, will still be great for as long as HD optical media is mainstream. Just the same, this is the battle that essentially won the war so any future HD titles I want (I'm talking 6 months to 1 year from now) will most likely be available only on Blu-ray. As an A/V enthusiast who already has all the hardware necessary to get the most out of the HD formats, I will be getting a Blu-ray player. That will only happen for me once a BD standalone comes out that offers me "everything" I want, for the price that I want, like my Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player did. That's not too much to ask.

Toshiba losing the war and me having to buy a Blu-ray player is not what upsets me. I knew there was this possibility going into it all. In fact, it's not the outcome that upsets me at all, it's the factors that lead to this outcome. High Definition optical media, due to it's nature, comes across to me as a product that was made for A/V enthusiasts. By all rights, you have to be an A/V enthusiast to get the most out of HDM, because only the A/V enthusiast has everything in their possession that is required to do so. Yet, as far as I can tell, the movie studios and gamers had more of a hand in this victory than A/V enthusiasts did. That seems backwards to me.

I honestly feel that January 4th, 2008 was a sad day for A/V consumers. This was a day that proved that a completely different demographic and completely different group of consumers (gamers) can now decide what choice in products we have available to us. Statistics show that the majority of PS3 owners are at an age or income level where they are not likely to have all the necessary equipment to take full advantage of Blu-ray at all. Most don't even have HDTV's or surround sound; not all, but most. Yet, because a game machine that just happened to have Blu-ray built in sold 10 million units (or more), and the Sony corporation was losing a lot of money, I am stuck having to buy Blu-ray if I want HDM.

Also, we have the part that the movie studios played in this. At the end of the day, they went with Blu-ray because they were paid more to do so. Anyone who thinks differently is a complete fool. Why were they paid more to do so? I feel it's because if Blu-ray failed, the PS3 would fail, which means that Sony would have been essentially screwed. They had more to lose than Toshiba did, so they ponied up the cash. So, that just brings us back to a gaming console and the gaming crowd having more to do with this format war than anything else. Shouldn't the sector of the consumer base that are HDTV owners, and who own the necessary sound hardware needed to take full advantage of HDM have been more of a factor in this?

This is the only thing that bothers me about the format war. I wondered what you thought, whether you are Red or Blu or both?

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Old 01-08-2008, 10:08 PM   #2  
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I have been preaching that same stuff about the PS3 for 6 months now. Gamers simply should not be allowed to determine what the A/V person will buy.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:20 PM   #3  
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You hit the nail right on the head! As usual, Another Great post from you.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:24 PM   #4  
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While money was a part of it for the Studios, I think their alignment is just as much based on their belief that Blu-Ray would win. That belief was probably reached by constant software wins, international dominance of the BD format, and of course PS3. Some studios also wanted region coding and extra protection, which BDA offered and HDDVD didn't.

Regarding the PS3, it was a big part of the win, for sure. I'm not sure it is fair to relegate it to "Gamers" though. I have bought about 25 BD's, and not one single game for my PS3.

Sony bet a lot of money by adding BD to PS3, and most likely lost complete dominance for this generation of game console. (Imagine if they put it on the market a year earlier without BD included. It would have been cheaper, competed directly with xbox360, and an existing userbase of 120 million ps2 users...)

Lastly, BDA (w/Sony spearheading that) was a master at PR. Media coverage helped them tremendously, they got some great pr wins (blockbuster going 'exclusive', target going 'exclusive')

HDDVD is the most mature and consumer friendly platform, but it wasn't enough to win unfortunately, since in the end, availability of software is critical.

I also have to say that while HDDVD supporters always rip on the fact that you need new production equipment, it costs more to replicate BD etc, it is unfair to compare a technology that was more of an evolution of dvd (hddvd) with more of a optical disc revolution (blu-ray). Hddvd may come out with a TL that can do 51 GB, but from the perspective of someone who also wants higher data capacity, Blu-Ray does have a lot more potential. 200 GB is possible.

In closing, HDDVD is really the best format today. In a couple of years, Blu-Ray will probably end up being a better format than HDDVD is today. (with the exception of region coding and bd+ which I would have loved to see them drop)

PS: If it only came down to money, I think we can all agree that Toshiba is in a better situation than Sony, so it's not that simple...
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:36 PM   #5  
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While money was a part of it for the Studios, I think their alignment is just as much based on their belief that Blu-Ray would win. That belief was probably reached by constant software wins, international dominance of the BD format, and of course PS3. Some studios also wanted region coding and extra protection, which BDA offered and HDDVD didn't.
From what I understand about international dominance of blue ray, Its was in fact out selling HD DVD outside the USA as well. The last numbers I heard though, is blue ray selling like 30000 disks and HD DVD selling 12000 monthly. These numbers are SO SO low, How can a multi billion dollar decision be made from that? I just dont understand how those numbers can be pointed to and someone think "ok blue ray won already" IMO
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:42 PM   #6  
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From what I understand about international dominance of blue ray, Its was in fact out selling HD DVD outside the USA as well. The last numbers I heard though, is blue ray selling like 30000 disks and HD DVD selling 12000 monthly. These numbers are SO SO low, How can a multi billion dollar decision be made from that? I just dont understand how those numbers can be pointed to and someone think "ok blue ray won already" IMO
Yes, the numbers were probably really low, but again the PS3 came to the rescue. They sold significant numbers of units in Europe and Japan, while HDDVD had practically no player base what so ever.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:51 PM   #7  
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Yes, the numbers were probably really low, but again the PS3 came to the rescue. They sold significant numbers of units in Europe and Japan, while HDDVD had practically no player base what so ever.
My point being, Those numbers were with the ps3 affect.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:54 PM   #8  
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Regarding the PS3, it was a big part of the win, for sure. I'm not sure it is fair to relegate it to "Gamers" though. I have bought about 25 BD's, and not one single game for my PS3.
Though, wouldn't you agree that your situation is true for only the tiniest fraction of PS3 owners? Relatively speaking, only a small number of people actually bought a PS3 primarily for use as a Blu-ray player with no intention of gaming. The BD attach rates pretty much confirm this. Even with a 50% share in the standalone player market and with 10 million PS3's on the market to boot, Blu-ray titles were only outselling HD DVD titles by 2:1 on average.

Also, speculating that the studios went with Blu-ray moreso because they thought it would win anyway, is nothing more than pure speculation. If they thought that, then why did WB ever support HD DVD in the first place, and why did they praise HD DVD so much in the past and assure us they weren't going to do what they did? Although no one has the exact figure, unless one is completely oblivious, it is certain that WB was bought out and it was likely for an astronomical sum. I think that enough information is out there currently that we can pretty much state that as fact, and not purely speculation.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:55 PM   #9  
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Yep - really sucks that the future of HD Home Video can be bought at a Toys-R-Us store.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:57 PM   #10  
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Originally Posted by tomes View Post
While money was a part of it for the Studios, I think their alignment is just as much based on their belief that Blu-Ray would win. That belief was probably reached by constant software wins, international dominance of the BD format, and of course PS3. Some studios also wanted region coding and extra protection, which BDA offered and HDDVD didn't.

Regarding the PS3, it was a big part of the win, for sure. I'm not sure it is fair to relegate it to "Gamers" though. I have bought about 25 BD's, and not one single game for my PS3.

Sony bet a lot of money by adding BD to PS3, and most likely lost complete dominance for this generation of game console. (Imagine if they put it on the market a year earlier without BD included. It would have been cheaper, competed directly with xbox360, and an existing userbase of 120 million ps2 users...)

Lastly, BDA (w/Sony spearheading that) was a master at PR. Media coverage helped them tremendously, they got some great pr wins (blockbuster going 'exclusive', target going 'exclusive')

HDDVD is the most mature and consumer friendly platform, but it wasn't enough to win unfortunately, since in the end, availability of software is critical.

I also have to say that while HDDVD supporters always rip on the fact that you need new production equipment, it costs more to replicate BD etc, it is unfair to compare a technology that was more of an evolution of dvd (hddvd) with more of a optical disc revolution (blu-ray). Hddvd may come out with a TL that can do 51 GB, but from the perspective of someone who also wants higher data capacity, Blu-Ray does have a lot more potential. 200 GB is possible.

In closing, HDDVD is really the best format today. In a couple of years, Blu-Ray will probably end up being a better format than HDDVD is today. (with the exception of region coding and bd+ which I would have loved to see them drop)

PS: If it only came down to money, I think we can all agree that Toshiba is in a better situation than Sony, so it's not that simple...
Their goes that "consumer friendly" bullshit that HD-DVD fuck ups keep blabbing. Consumers are a diverse bunch and what is more "Consumer Friendly" differs from person to person. What about gaming consumers. Without a doubt if your a gamer Blu-Rays method of delivery was certainly more friendly to you. Gaming out of the box not requiring a clunky add-on and over $100 cheaper then a 360 plus HD-DVD add-on. I also fail to see how lower capacity and less movies is more "Consumer Friendly"

What to you is "consumer friendly" is really only "consumer friendly" to you.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:00 PM   #11  
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Yep - really sucks that the future of HD Home Video can be bought at a Toys-R-Us store.
LOL thats very true. I guess the sad part is that it's the best player of the bunch too. I can hear it now ... *Hey Hitachi man, Where can I get the very best HD Home video player* My answer ... Just go to Toys R Us, they have plenty Blue ray Players!
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:02 PM   #12  
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Their goes that "consumer friendly" bullshit that HD-DVD fuck ups keep blabbing. Consumers are a diverse bunch and what is more "Consumer Friendly" differs from person to person. What about gaming consumers. Without a doubt if your a gamer Blu-Rays method of delivery was certainly more friendly to you. Gaming out of the box not requiring a clunky add-on and over $100 cheaper then a 360 plus HD-DVD add-on. I also fail to see how lower capacity and less movies is more "Consumer Friendly"

What to you is "consumer friendly" is really only "consumer friendly" to you.
I don't see where the "consumer friendly" arguement comes into this topic? This topic is about HDM seeming to have been designed more for A/V enthusiasts than gamers... it has nothing to do with any consumer friendly arguement. Personally, I think that what is best for gamers should have only been a small factor in what HDM format we are stuck with. HDM is about the best PQ and AQ, and essentially has nothing to do with video games.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:03 PM   #13  
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I don't see where the "consumer friendly" arguement comes into this arguement? This topic is about HDM seeming to have been designed more for A/V enthusiasts than gamers... has nothing to do with any consumer friendly arguement. Personally, I think that what is best for gamers should have only been a small factor in what HDM we are stuck with.
As a gamer myself I find your attitude very smug.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:06 PM   #14  
HD DVD: Still the best!
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As a gamer myself I find your attitude very smug.
Well you probably find it smug, because I am not concerned with what serves gamers at all. I am concerned with what serves A/V enthusiasts, which is what HDM is really all about. Surely, you realize this?
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:07 PM   #15  
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As a gamer myself I find your attitude very smug.
Considering what most people think of you here, I'd call that a compliment
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