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Warning !! Blu-ray - The New Betamax?

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Old 12-18-2007, 10:13 PM   #121  
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Yo bad you can't let the Betamax-VHS format war go. It was only a quarter of a century ago. Wasn't the Betamax superior to VHS in specifications? So a gimmick won a war for VHS? A win for the little guy? Not really. They bought it for an extra hour of recording. In other words, they were cheap bastards. There are people posting on this site that weren't even born when this was going on. No relevence to HD DVD and Blu Ray.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:44 AM   #122  
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Originally Posted by Madhatter View Post
You state this:



And then the all knowing Boby stated:



And then again Unotis stated:


So, who is right? Are the PS3 owners buying discs, or not? Wish you all would get your stories straight.
I will enlighten you tomorrow, as I have some fascinating data (from Blu-Ray sources themselves) which demonstrates pretty clearly the actual number of PS3 owners who buy BD movies on a regular basis is *far* below 20%.

This would help explain the need for continual BD BOGOs and discounts to maintain the illusion that BD sales are signifcantly stronger than HD DVD sales.

BTW, I don't understand your confusion with my previous statement. It doesn't matter if even 50% of PS3 owners buy one BD out of curiosity, if they don't plan on buying them on an ongoing basis, the studios aren't paying any attention to them.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:48 AM   #123  
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Well, the ONLY reason why BD is selling more movies is due to the BOGO sales. That is it, quite pathetic if you think about it.

HD DVD is outselling in SAL players & attach rates for movies HD DVD should increase its installed base by 500% in 2008 which should put them well over 10 million by late Q4 2008.

A big change in this war should come in around early Q3 2008, but it could happen in Q2 2008. Can't say much right now about it though
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:20 AM   #124  
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Originally Posted by Super XP View Post
What about your crap that you post
You may not like my posts, you may not like my opinions. I offer facts and offer opinions. Although I often see responses that my facts are wrong, I can't ever get anybody to respond with any evidence anything is wrong. My opinions are hopefully easily determined to be just that opinions. I started responding to the never ending crap posted by the HD enthusiasts here and have continued to do so and hope it will no longer be necessary because I hope the format ends its silly run with one hardware manufacturer and miniscule market share that has done nothing but cause confusion.

I guess you decided against trying to caculate when HD DVD would pass Beta in terms of cumulative sales of hardware and software, it would be a long time and I still believe most likely the correct answer is never.

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Old 12-19-2007, 04:27 AM   #125  
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Okay, I stand corrected, I went a checked the PS3 has sold world wide 7.5 million, that would make the number of them being used as Blu-Ray players around 1.5 million. which still means HD DVD sells 4 times as much software per player.

We still win in the eyes of the Studios that are trying to decide who to back. And we are continuing to see aggressive increases in HD DVD stand-alones (50% in the last 4 months) if that keeps up and it should we will probably see 2 million HD DVD stand-alones sold and being used by the end of 2008, which should mean 8 times the movies being sold by HD DVD over Blu-Ray and that is where the Studios are going to watch as to where the future profits will be, not how well a game console is doing saleswise (you can call it a media center if you want but it is not really a media center is it?).

Heck at least I don't call it a paper weight, and there are some that would, something being called something doesn't make it so!
You want to use 20%, go ahead, I can't find any evidence that is the correct ratio. The only certain percentage I know is that 100% of PS3 consoles sold are capable of playing Blu-ray. I do not know how many have been used, but my analysis that either Blu-ray has a much higher attach rate or the PS3 is being used quite often for Blu-ray is true. I choose to believe the PS3 is being used quite often and about 40% of PS3 owners have used it for Blu-ray. I choose to believe the average PS3 owner owns an HDTV or he wouldn't own a PS3.

Warner is aware of the PS3 capabilities and marketshare and the PS3 is going to be consideration is my opinion and the HD DVD enthusiasts that try to state otherwise are not going to change that opinion. The PS3 is so significant, I believe it will be an important factor in the decision and Warner will decide to turn Blu after consideration of all factors and all offers.

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Old 12-19-2007, 04:47 AM   #126  
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
You want to use 20%, go ahead, I can't find any evidence that is the correct ratio. The only certain percentage I know is that 100% of PS3 consoles sold are capable of playing Blu-ray. I do not know how many have been used, but my analysis that either Blu-ray has a much higher attach rate or the PS3 is being used quite often for Blu-ray is true. I choose to believe the PS3 is being used quite often and about 40% of PS3 owners have used it for Blu-ray. I choose to believe the average PS3 owner owns an HDTV or he wouldn't own a PS3.

Warner is aware of the PS3 capabilities and marketshare and the PS3 is going to be consideration is my opinion and the HD DVD enthusiasts that try to state otherwise are not going to change that opinion. The PS3 is so significant, I believe it will be an important factor in the decision and Warner will decide to turn Blu after consideration of all factors and all offers.

Chris
Keep posting Chris. Me values your insight immensly. You continue to keep yourself above the childish tirade aimed at you. You and meself differ a bit in our opine, but we still seek the same outcome. Me owns both formats - HD DVD suffices as a home viewer of movies that are available. BD suffices as a home viewer of movies plus it doubles as a powerful burner - much cheaper than HD DVD offers. Sony also has great software tailored to BD burning. Toshiba offers a super expensive laptop - with software tailored to DVD burning (lmao when me learned this). Last but not least, have you visited your local WalMart, Target, CC & BB to see what is offered concerning movies and HD writables? BluRay is on the shelves!!!! HD DVD is shrinking daily in this holiday season!
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:15 AM   #127  
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
You want to use 20%, go ahead, I can't find any evidence that is the correct ratio. The only certain percentage I know is that 100% of PS3 consoles sold are capable of playing Blu-ray. I do not know how many have been used, but my analysis that either Blu-ray has a much higher attach rate or the PS3 is being used quite often for Blu-ray is true. I choose to believe the PS3 is being used quite often and about 40% of PS3 owners have used it for Blu-ray. I choose to believe the average PS3 owner owns an HDTV or he wouldn't own a PS3.

Warner is aware of the PS3 capabilities and marketshare and the PS3 is going to be consideration is my opinion and the HD DVD enthusiasts that try to state otherwise are not going to change that opinion. The PS3 is so significant, I believe it will be an important factor in the decision and Warner will decide to turn Blu after consideration of all factors and all offers.

Chris
Both of the percentages are seemingly too high, BobY says he has proof from Blu-Ray sources that the attach rate is less then 20% and he can provide it.

And I do wish for your sake that potential could replace actual use of the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player (heck I wish Blu-Ray would finally complete development of the format), but I think the Studios would use the real number of discs sales per owner/player as a reason to support a format.

STUDIO: Let's see which is better for our profit margin? Choose the format that has a rapidly increasing customer base and one that buys 4 times as many movies at full profit per player or the one that has firesales (BOGO) and dumps their movies at half price just to maintain a small sales advantage because their customer base buys very few movies per player in comparison. And also the one format has increased their sales 50% in the last 4 months and it appears that growth will just increase in 2008.

Now, Which should we choose???

Wait, it is a no brainer and good business sense, HD DVD!

Last edited by unotis; 12-19-2007 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:19 PM   #128  
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Originally Posted by unotis View Post
Both of the percentages are seemingly too high, BobY says he has proof from Blu-Ray sources that the attach rate is less then 20% and he can provide it.
That is total nonsense. Nobody can prove that. Have him provide a list of the owners of the 7,500,000 PS3 consoles that have been sold with their phone numbers. I will do some investigation myself if he has that. I can say with absolute certainty that I use my PS3 for Blu-ray and based on my small sample, 100% are used for Blu-ray. I can also state with certainty that no marketing study used my input since I haven't been contacted.

Your enthusiasm flying in the face of the facts is always enjoyable to see. Proof it is less than 20%, yes indeed, I am sure you and BobY can provide that information.

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Old 12-19-2007, 12:25 PM   #129  
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
That is total nonsense. Nobody can prove that. Have him provide a list of the owners of the 7,500,000 PS3 consoles that have been sold with their phone numbers. I will do some investigation myself if he has that. I can say with absolute certainty that I use my PS3 for Blu-ray and based on my small sample, 100% are used for Blu-ray. I can also state with certainty that no marketing study used my input since I haven't been contacted.

Chris
It is good to know you think that even Blu-Ray itself doesn't know anything either and you have all the knowledge as to the attach rates and they should contact you personally if they want to know it also.

We should all bow down to your superior knowledge and contact both sides to let them know they are totally ignorant about their own formats according to you.

I'm sorry Chris that post makes you seem ignorant and small (and I know you're not).

If you want proof contact BobY and not post such lazy poorly conceived replies.

Last edited by unotis; 12-19-2007 at 12:30 PM..
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:43 PM   #130  
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Originally Posted by unotis View Post
It is good to know you think that even Blu-Ray itself doesn't know anything either and you have all the knowledge as to the attach rates and they should contact you personally if they want to know it also.

We should all bow down to your superior knowledge and contact both sides to let them know they are totally ignorant about their own formats according to you.

I'm sorry Chris that post makes you seem ignorant and small (and I know you're not).

If you want proof contact BobY and not post such lazy poorly conceived replies.
Who's BobY by the way? I haven't heard any reference to this person until now.

I believe about 50% of PS3 owners has at least played ONE blu-ray movie on it. (Heck, several editions came with free movies, such as Talladega Nights, Casino Royale, Spiderman 3 - why would the NOT try it?)

Furthermore I believe 30-40% have tried a few.

I think probably 20% have watched many, and of those, probably at least half (or 10% of the total ps3 owners) bought it primarily for Blu-Ray playback.

I know several people and they all use it a lot for playback. Of course, I'm in my thirties, so someone in their 20s may play more game.

I do think it is funny though that HDDVD fans first make fun of the "appaling lack of games" on the platform, so "obviously they don't buy it for the games", yet they apparently don't know what Blu-Ray is . What exactly do people think the PS3 is used for?????

In the end it does not matter. If Warner sells considerably more discs on Blu-Ray than on HDDVD, there is a good chance they go that way, or vice versa, if HDDVD sells considerably more, they'll go that way. Software Sales is what counts...
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:53 PM   #131  
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Originally Posted by BobY View Post
I will enlighten you tomorrow, as I have some fascinating data (from Blu-Ray sources themselves) which demonstrates pretty clearly the actual number of PS3 owners who buy BD movies on a regular basis is *far* below 20%.

This would help explain the need for continual BD BOGOs and discounts to maintain the illusion that BD sales are signifcantly stronger than HD DVD sales.
.
BobY, if you could please post the information on attach rates, Chris thinks there is no proof and he claims the attach rate is actually 40% and we just cannot see the truth of the matter because we are blinded by false hope (or something to that effect).

I know he will probably ignore it but it would be nice for the people that want the truth rather then fanboy mis-information from either side.

I'm sorry to have to ask this, it is my fault that it came up in response to his postings.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:59 PM   #132  
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Who's BobY by the way? I haven't heard any reference to this person until now.

I believe about 50% of PS3 owners has at least played ONE blu-ray movie on it. (Heck, several editions came with free movies, such as Talladega Nights, Casino Royale, Spiderman 3 - why would the NOT try it?)

Furthermore I believe 30-40% have tried a few.

I think probably 20% have watched many, and of those, probably at least half (or 10% of the total ps3 owners) bought it primarily for Blu-Ray playback.

I know several people and they all use it a lot for playback. Of course, I'm in my thirties, so someone in their 20s may play more game.

I do think it is funny though that HDDVD fans first make fun of the "appaling lack of games" on the platform, so "obviously they don't buy it for the games", yet they apparently don't know what Blu-Ray is . What exactly do people think the PS3 is used for?????

In the end it does not matter. If Warner sells considerably more discs on Blu-Ray than on HDDVD, there is a good chance they go that way, or vice versa, if HDDVD sells considerably more, they'll go that way. Software Sales is what counts...
Good post, well thought out and balanced, we need more like this.

But really, you haven't heard of BobY, he has posted almost 4000 times on this forum and is probably the best of all the posters with technical information and explainations?

Read some of his postings if you want knowledge and not hype.
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:12 PM   #133  
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Good post, well thought out and balanced, we need more like this.

But really, you haven't heard of BobY, he has posted almost 4000 times on this forum and is probably the best of all the posters with technical information and explainations?

Read some of his postings if you want knowledge and not hype.
Thanks, I feel bad for not noticing him before, but the threads I'm in tend to be hijacked by people posting opinions and misinformation, so he must have gotten lost in the shuffle

I'm a newbie on this forum as well, only been on here for about a month or so
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:17 PM   #134  
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Originally Posted by unotis View Post
BobY, if you could please post the information on attach rates, Chris thinks there is no proof and he claims the attach rate is actually 40% and we just cannot see the truth of the matter because we are blinded by false hope (or something to that effect).

I know he will probably ignore it but it would be nice for the people that want the truth rather then fanboy mis-information from either side.

I'm sorry to have to ask this, it is my fault that it came up in response to his postings.
I have never asked for the percentage of PS3 owners that buy movies on a regular basis. I am possibly not even a member of that group, depending on how regularly is defined. What I have always stated is the owners use the PS3 for Blu-ray and don't buy a great number of movies. You are using a tactic you guys always use against me. Change what I state and attack that. I understand that owners of the PS3 that regularly buy movies, meaning frequently, is a small group, less than 20%, I have never stated differently. What I have stated is the PS3 is used as a Blu-ray player by many owners and that the attach rate is small and there is great potential since the user base is large and the result is far more Blu-ray software is sold than HD DVD software since the user base is much larger.

If you are seriously trying to state I have claimed a large percentage of PS3 owners have purchased many Blu-ray video discs, you are even goofier than I thought you were. You might look at my posts and it should become clear what my understanding of the the quantity of software sold is. There are over 8,000,000 Blu-ray players worldwide (capable of playing Blu-ray video discs) and I believe total software units sold (Blu-ray video discs) is about 5,000,000. That is not me claiming that there is more than 20% of PS3 owners buying movies on Blu-ray regularly. If they use the PS3 for Blu-ray video discs, period, I include them in the group of PS3 owners that have used their PS3 for Blu-ray.

Maybe you can understand, assuming you didn't deliberately attempt to change my comments and attack that, by reading this and my other posts. My point that I would rather sell to a potential user base of 8,000,000 than a potential user base of less than a million is the statement I have made and repeated. I believe as the PS3 is updated further for Blu-ray playback and a greater software selection is available and a greater rental selection is available, the PS3 use for Blu-ray will grow. Most importantly, I believe that once HD DVD goes bye bye, the owners of a PS3 will buy more software because the fear of a premature end of the format won't be a concern. There is a large group of people that won't buy software if there is a concern the format won't last and that will make replacement hardware impossible to find.

I am sort of hoping your challenging the alledged position of a belief that PS3 owners are regularly buying Blu-ray video discs was a deliberate attempt to annoy me and you will apologize, but if not, I won't be surprised as that is all I have ever seen from you guys.

Chris
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:17 PM   #135  
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Thanks, I feel bad for not noticing him before, but the threads I'm in tend to be hijacked by people posting opinions and misinformation, so he must have gotten lost in the shuffle

I'm a newbie on this forum as well, only been on here for about a month or so
I think you'll like BobY. He's a matter of fact, no nonsense guy. He is well respected and highly technical.
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