High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition Media A place to discuss BD and UHD Content from physical and digital media

Warning !! Blu-ray - The New Betamax?

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-18-2007, 09:39 AM   #31  
What's AVS?
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
Now that 7.5 million Blu-ray players can be updated to Profile 1.1 immediately if the owners of the players want Blu-ray playback including the features, I hope Warner is paying attention.

Chris
They are, and they don't want to rely on a gaming machine to support a format.

We should give Chris his own sticky thread. Only Chris can post in it, and he can put all his statements into that thread. That should take about one post, since it's the same crap regurgitated over and over again all saying the same thing. Instead of replying to posts he can just say, look at my sticky.
Hip Name Here is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:45 AM   #32  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Chris Gerhard's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,947
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hip Name Here View Post
They are, and they don't want to rely on a gaming machine to support a format.

We should give Chris his own sticky thread. Only Chris can post in it, and he can put all his statements into that thread. That should take about one post, since it's the same crap regurgitated over and over again all saying the same thing. Instead of replying to posts he can just say, look at my sticky.

What we know for certain is that Warner isn't going to choose a format that has less than a million players in service, HD DVD, without receiving a big cash settlement. The nonsense that Warner will avoid Blu-ray because the players being used will often be the excellent PS3 has no credibility at all. Do you own a PS3? It works great for Blu-ray, I didn't know it until I read that repeatedly and now that I own one, I know it first hand. Once again, I hope Warner is paying attention to the obvious, there is one significant chance for HD disc sales to help the home video software market and that one chance is Blu-ray.

Chris
Chris Gerhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:45 AM   #33  
Nikopol
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Sorry . . .

Chris ONLY sees 7 million PS3's and 65/35 sales ratio in favor of BD. ALL other stats are meaningless to him.
That and the assumption, that without a competing format (no format war) Blu-ray is likely to prosper.

There you have 98% of his posts in a nutshell.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:45 AM   #34  
Tom Baker (1974-1981)
Thread Starter
 
Super XP's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto, ON. Canada
Posts: 5,988
Default

Chris Gerhard really needs a head exam by an HD DVD supporting doctor. He sounds like a broken record over & over again. He completely rejects FACTS and replaces them with his BS about Blu-Ray this & Blu-Ray that.

He keeps over the head everytime he completely rejects FACTS because those FACTS do not come out as he wants them to come out, so he creates complete FUD. It's too bad for that because people read up on this forum for info and he is just misleading those people with BS.

Anyway, I gave him a date and that date is around Q3 2008. Things are going to change in this Hi Def Format war. And by then we won't have to call it a War
Super XP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:48 AM   #35  
My Projector is High Def.
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlborough, MA
Age: 45
Posts: 7,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
I consider a format that has 8 million players in service as having a better start than a format that has less than 1 million in service. I do accept as I always have that Blu-ray must do much better to succeed and if HD DVD ends its run, I expect that to happen. Now that 7.5 million Blu-ray players can be updated to Profile 1.1 immediately if the owners of the players want Blu-ray playback including the features, I hope Warner is paying attention.

Chris
Sure, but when a very large percentage of those players were freebies that came with the gaming system someone purchased, it changed things.

Here's something that would be interested to find out.

How many total blu-ray titles are sold in a week? How many PS3's sold in a week? Let's assume for a minute that every single PS3 buyer picks up 1 blu-ray title when they buy their console. Take this factor out and how many blu-ray titles sell in a week?

While I am sure not every single PS3 buyer buys a title, some might buy more than one. Whether they continue to buy or not is the big question.

Is blu-ray selling what they are selling because blu-ray owners are really interested in blu-ray and love it? Or is it because they own a blu-ray player by default and are curious and try it out?

These are BIG unknowns. And likely one of the reasons WB doesn't want to rely on a gaming console.

You tend to look at one thing - numbers. Total number of potential blu-ray players, total number of blu-ray titles sold. That's not all that matters to studios.
mshulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:49 AM   #36  
Tom Baker (1974-1981)
Thread Starter
 
Super XP's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto, ON. Canada
Posts: 5,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
What we know for certain is that Warner isn't going to choose a format that has less than a million players in service, HD DVD, without receiving a big cash settlement. The nonsense that Warner will avoid Blu-ray because the players being used will often be the excellent PS3 has no credibility at all. Do you own a PS3? It works great for Blu-ray, I didn't know it until I read that repeatedly and now that I own one, I know it first hand. Once again, I hope Warner is paying attention to the obvious, there is one significant chance for HD disc sales to help the home video software market and that one chance is Blu-ray.

Chris
How many times do people have to tell you Warner can care less about PS3 sales. What they want is Stand Alone Player Sales Period. HD DVD is outselling BD SAL players by more then 5:1.

That is right, HD DVD is outselling BD by more than 5:1
Super XP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:54 AM   #37  
What's AVS?
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
The nonsense that Warner will avoid Blu-ray because the players being used will often be the excellent PS3 has no credibility at all.
Chris
Name one movie format that has depended on a video game system that has been successful. I can tell you the name of a very recent format that has not been successful. Of course Sony is behind that one too.
Hip Name Here is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:57 AM   #38  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 235
Default

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I tend to find Chris's posts comedy Gold!!! He makes me laugh time and time again.. Sometimes I wonder if he is really typing his posts with a straight face, because I can't read them with one. hahaha...

Thanks chris.

good times. good times.
jay4highdef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:57 AM   #39  
What's AVS?
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay4highdef View Post
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I tend to find Chris's posts comedy Gold!!! He makes me laugh time and time again.. Sometimes I wonder if he is really typing his posts with a straight face, because I can't read them with one. hahaha...

Thanks chris.

good times. good times.
I do find them funny, but it turns into the same post so it gets old.
Hip Name Here is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:59 AM   #40  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Chris Gerhard's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,947
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super XP View Post
Chris Gerhard really needs a head exam by an HD DVD supporting doctor. He sounds like a broken record over & over again. He completely rejects FACTS and replaces them with his BS about Blu-Ray this & Blu-Ray that.

He keeps over the head everytime he completely rejects FACTS because those FACTS do not come out as he wants them to come out, so he creates complete FUD. It's too bad for that because people read up on this forum for info and he is just misleading those people with BS.

Anyway, I gave him a date and that date is around Q3 2008. Things are going to change in this Hi Def Format war. And by then we won't have to call it a War
What facts have I failed to notice? The only fact I see that I don't understand is that the miniscule group of HD DVD enthusiasts that congregate at their safe haven, High Def Forum, post glowing opinions about the HD DVD market and I give no credibility to any of their predictions or opinions, since no facts and no history supports any of those predictions or opinions. The facts are very simple, two formats are competing for a market, neither format has done much yet, but one of the two has done far better than the other. HD DVD hasn't sold anywhere near the quantity that Blu-ray has and has been completely and thoroughly rejected by every market it is available in everywhere in the world. I have followed the claims that once HD DVD prices go under $400, the market will grow quickly, then it was $300, then it was $200, now it is I believe $100 or is it $50 that has become the magic price? I have offered my opinion that HD DVD will not sell at any price and I have been right so far. If the market continues with two formats, I have predicted the market will remain very small, but Blu-ray will always lead in a very small market.

Chris
Chris Gerhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 09:59 AM   #41  
My Projector is High Def.
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlborough, MA
Age: 45
Posts: 7,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
What we know for certain is that Warner isn't going to choose a format that has less than a million players in service, HD DVD, without receiving a big cash settlement. The nonsense that Warner will avoid Blu-ray because the players being used will often be the excellent PS3 has no credibility at all. Do you own a PS3? It works great for Blu-ray, I didn't know it until I read that repeatedly and now that I own one, I know it first hand. Once again, I hope Warner is paying attention to the obvious, there is one significant chance for HD disc sales to help the home video software market and that one chance is Blu-ray.

Chris

If supermarkets gave away a zune with every purchase, and zune numbers surpassed the ipod, would the zune be better? Would it mean consumers prefer the zune over the ipod?

Or does it simply mean consumers used what they were given for free?

Can you at least agree that the same issue is happening with blu-ray and the PS3? You think everyone that bought a blu-ray title for their PS3 bought their PS3 BECAUSE of blu-ray? Or can you admit that many are making use of PS3 simply because they got it for free with their gaming system?

If I was working for WB, there are a few things I would consider:

1. Short term losses by picking a side (sales would decrease).
2. Potential growth from picking a side - which side would benefit more from adding another exclusive studio and grow faster because of it?
3. Existing market and sales

Here's what I think of each of the above

1. I can't really say - there would be a loss regardless of which side was chosen. Obviously bigger on the HD DVD side, but we'd have to look at profit too, not just overall sales. I bet profit is much closer than sales.

2. I really think HD DVD would grow faster if another studio joined them exclusively. HD DVD is at a price point for faster adoption. Blu-ray just isn't. Even if WB chose blu-ray, HD DVD wouldn't cease to exist. If WB chose HD DVD, HD DVD sales would likely increase as some fence sitters would see this as another positive for HD DVD and the price of buying in really isn't a factor anymore.

3. Looking at the market, you have about 1 million HD DVD players, of which 100% are being used for HD DVD playback. With blu-ray, you have what, 7+ million or so? Maybe 20-30% are primarily used for blu-ray playback? I'd need to see numbers too. How many total blu-ray titles have been sold vs players? What if every single PS3 owner bought 1 title - what if only 20% think its worthwhile to buy more? How many more players can we expect to sell? Why are the players selling? Are they selling because of blu-ray or gaming?

These are some of the factors a business will look at and consider. Its not the simple picture you like to paint. Its much more complicated.

Furthermore, I don't understand why you think blu-ray is the only chance High def media has. At its price point, HD DVD is open to mass adoption. Consumers just need assurance the format will last. This is a hurdle for both, but I think fewer are ready to buy into blu-ray at its current prices.
mshulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 10:04 AM   #42  
My Projector is High Def.
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlborough, MA
Age: 45
Posts: 7,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hip Name Here View Post
Name one movie format that has depended on a video game system that has been successful. I can tell you the name of a very recent format that has not been successful. Of course Sony is behind that one too.
It doesn't matter. Chris fails to accept the fact that blu-ray sales are a direct result of people getting blu-ray playback by default when purchasing a gaming sytem.

I'd bet if you took out the gaming factor on the PS3 and had it replaced with a nearly identical player (that could still be upgraded) and even gave it in IR port, that player sales between the two formats would be very very close. HD DVD might even have the lead by now.
mshulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 10:07 AM   #43  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Chris Gerhard's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,947
Default

Of course my posts are always written with a humorous intent, but my belief that only one of these two formats has a snowball's chance in Hades at success is my honest opinion. You guys see another week of pathetic results for HD DVD and claiim things are going great and you focus on some meaningless prediction or belief and ignore the truth every week. Your attempts to make the HD DVD market performance sound good always look to me as if you have wrapped a turd in a ribbon and tried to pass it off as a Christmas gift.

Chris
Chris Gerhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 10:08 AM   #44  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
What facts have I failed to notice? The only fact I see that I don't understand is that the miniscule group of HD DVD enthusiasts that congregate at their safe haven, High Def Forum, post glowing opinions about the HD DVD market and I give no credibility to any of their predictions or opinions, since no facts and no history supports any of those predictions or opinions. The facts are very simple, two formats are competing for a market, neither format has done much yet, but one of the two has done far better than the other. HD DVD hasn't sold anywhere near the quantity that Blu-ray has and has been completely and thoroughly rejected by every market it is available in everywhere in the world. I have followed the claims that once HD DVD prices go under $400, the market will grow quickly, then it was $300, then it was $200, now it is I believe $100 or is it $50 that has become the magic price? I have offered my opinion that HD DVD will not sell at any price and I have been right so far. If the market continues with two formats, I have predicted the market will remain very small, but Blu-ray will always lead in a very small market.

Chris
Chris,
What the hell are you talking about?? I want to see how many ps3 owners bought a ps3 just for the bluray player. I did but I don't buy any bluray's unless I have to. It was smart for sony to throw them out there with the ps3 but nobody is buying blu SA's. Whats your explanation buddy?? This garbage gets old, and I think you will be shocked come fri and the nielsens are announced.
jay4highdef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 10:10 AM   #45  
SD HURTS MY EYES
 
Stew4HD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tejas Baby
Posts: 9,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshulman View Post
It doesn't matter. Chris fails to accept the fact that blu-ray sales are a direct result of people getting blu-ray playback by default when purchasing a gaming sytem.

I'd bet if you took out the gaming factor on the PS3 and had it replaced with a nearly identical player (that could still be upgraded) and even gave it in IR port, that player sales between the two formats would be very very close. HD DVD might even have the lead by now.
He's blu blind.. that is really the the truth of the matter. He cares not for what is likely, only that "7.5 million" PS3's are out there, not what is consumer friendly. He is blind enough to not see that the consumer will not automatically hop on BD because of price or that MOST people do not want a gaming machine, sans IR remote, in their living rooms!
Stew4HD is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


to Warning !! Blu-ray - The New Betamax?
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BLOG: Mark my words, Sony may well regret its victory in the video disc war Lee Stewart High Definition Media 18 03-06-2012 04:38 PM
Samsung's BD-P1400 Blu-ray player sinks below $300 dblake15 High Definition Media 114 12-10-2007 06:08 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:37 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands