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TrueHD 5.1 has arrived

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Old 08-25-2006, 10:30 AM   #1  
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Default TrueHD 5.1 has arrived

A firmwire upgrade to the HD-A1 now gives you the ability to read full TrueHD sound. I look forward to hearing how good TrueHD truely is. The bits once stated its as much as three times as good as DVD-A sound. If thats true then it should blow us away.
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Old 08-25-2006, 12:27 PM   #2  
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Does this you are buying a HD-DVD player now Jimmy?

You will not be able to hear it with BD until some unknown date in the future AND after spending thousands for a receiver on top of the PS3 cost as we disussed before.
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Old 08-25-2006, 01:13 PM   #3  
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Originally Posted by PFC5
Does this you are buying a HD-DVD player now Jimmy?

You will not be able to hear it with BD until some unknown date in the future AND after spending thousands for a receiver on top of the PS3 cost as we disussed before.
Dude you need a new reciever on HD-DVD too whats your point. In current gen recievers it is actually outputing it as a LPCM soundtrack. Which will sound quite good but for both formats you will need a new reciever to get the full TrueHD effect.
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Old 08-25-2006, 01:55 PM   #4  
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whats TRUE HD SOUND ?
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Old 08-25-2006, 02:11 PM   #5  
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Originally Posted by throwback559
whats TRUE HD SOUND ?
A new audio format. Its rare at the moment. Currently used in only 4 HD-DVDs and no Blu-Rays probably due to space limitations. At its full potential TrueHD sound is suppose to sound up to 3 times as good as DVD-A music discs which sound amazing. Currently only the HD-A1 able to read them but since it lacks HDMI 1.3 and there are no recievers on the market that can read it it is outputted at LPCM. Not as good as it will sound in its full form but much better then anything else in home theater.
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Old 08-25-2006, 04:35 PM   #6  
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Hi,
Since the audio decoding is done in the players themselves. Just as it was with the musical version of DolbyTruhd, Meridan lossless or DVD-A if you have a set of analogs in your receiver that is not being used you should be good to go.

My Denon 5803 has 2 sets oh 8ch analogs which made me tremondouly disappointed that both Tosh players only had provided 5.1. It was worse when I saw practically nothing from the released titles.

Since I've been scaling my dvds to 1080i for yrs now and I can record all the HD movies I want from my cable provider, I have 0 incetive to replace my collection.

Unfortuneately people get caught up on HDMI & DolbyplIIx before they realize that the software has yet to hit the streets that will fully utilize AV equipment they've purchased 4 or 5 years ago.

Peter M
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Old 08-25-2006, 04:37 PM   #7  
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Again Jimmy you get things HALF RIGHT when it comes to these format's plus/minuses, and you always side with BD.

Here is what SHOULD have been posted:

Dolby True-HD is a new HD audio format that uses compression technology that is "LossLESS" (also, DTS-HD Master Audio also is LossLESS like DTHD). This means that no data is lost compared to currect standard audio formats like Dolby Digital & DTS which use a Lossy compression method. The LOSSY compression in the old audio formats result in some audio data being lost. Standard DD has the most data lost, with standard DTS losing less (which is why it usually sounds better than DD on SD DVDs when available).

There are two new HD audio formats that are also LOSSY but at much less data actually lost compared to the old legacy audio formats. They are Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) and DTS-HD (not the Master Audio). The compression these two new HD LOSSY formats use lose MUCH LESS data than the standard DD/DTS do, so they sound better too.

Currently DolbyTrueHD is fairly rare at the moment, but virtually ALL of Universal Studio's new announced releases are going to have it, and now that HD-DVD players have this new HD decoder built-in with the FREE upgrade in firmware ALL future titles will eventually have it on HD-DVD movies BECAUSE it is MANDATORY in the HD-DVD spec.

No Blu-Ray movies have this BECAUSE it IS NOT mandatory, and there is no BD players that have ANY HD audio decoders built-in so you are stuck with standard LOSSY DD & DTS for BD players. From what is known right now, NONE of these 1G BD players can be upgraded like the HD-DVD players can. So until they make new players with either the new HD audio decoders built-in, OR have HDMI 1.3 (only PS3 most likely this year). They are not on the BD discs because of space limitations for BD because they can only make 25GB discs compared to HD-DVD's 30GB disc size. AND because Blu-ray DOES NOT REQUIRE any of the new HD audio formats on the BD discs they might not be on many discs even IF they can eventually mfg the BD50 discs, AND get players that can decode them OR make BD players with HDMI 1.3 built-in.

Currently only the HD-DVD players are able to read/output the new HD audio formats. It does NOT need HDMI 1.3 in the players or new currently unavailable EXPENSIVE new receivers LIKE BD players will NEED to play/hear them. NONE of the current BD players announced for 2006 will have either the decoders OR HDMI 1.3 so you will NEVER be able to play the new HD audio formats on these players coming in 2006.
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Old 08-25-2006, 08:23 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PFC5
Currently DolbyTrueHD is fairly rare at the moment, but virtually ALL of Universal Studio's new announced releases are going to have it, and now that HD-DVD players have this new HD decoder built-in with the FREE upgrade in firmware ALL future titles will eventually have it on HD-DVD movies BECAUSE it is MANDATORY in the HD-DVD spec.

No Blu-Ray movies have this BECAUSE it IS NOT mandatory, and there is no BD players that have ANY HD audio decoders built-in so you are stuck with standard LOSSY DD & DTS for BD players. From what is known right now, NONE of these 1G BD players can be upgraded like the HD-DVD players can. So until they make new players with either the new HD audio decoders built-in, OR have HDMI 1.3 (only PS3 most likely this year). They are not on the BD discs because of space limitations for BD because they can only make 25GB discs compared to HD-DVD's 30GB disc size. AND because Blu-ray DOES NOT REQUIRE any of the new HD audio formats on the BD discs they might not be on many discs even IF they can eventually mfg the BD50 discs, AND get players that can decode them OR make BD players with HDMI 1.3 built-in.

Currently only the HD-DVD players are able to read/output the new HD audio formats. It does NOT need HDMI 1.3 in the players or new currently unavailable EXPENSIVE new receivers LIKE BD players will NEED to play/hear them. NONE of the current BD players announced for 2006 will have either the decoders OR HDMI 1.3 so you will NEVER be able to play the new HD audio formats on these players coming in 2006.
You are the one who is half right. Yeah TrueHD is not mandatory for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. The vast majority of HD-DVDs don't have it so how can it be mandatory.

You will need a new reciever on both formats. Current gen recievers can't recognize a TrueHD signal no matter what the player is capable of. True the HD-A1 can output the signal but the reciever can only convert it to something it recognizes which Im guessing is LPCM similar to the format of DVD-Audio discs which sound quite good certainly better then either format has been displaying so far but not the maximum quality TrueHD can do.
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Old 08-25-2006, 10:44 PM   #9  
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You are wrong Jimmy!

It is mandatory but was not on most movies because until now there was no player that could play it, so the studio didn't bother (and it wasn't enforced) putting it on against the format spec. The reason the HD-DVD players didn't decode DTHD in more than 2 channels was because of a delay in the DtHD spec and chips/software to do the decoding.

You are SO SO SO wrong about needing a new receiver for DTHD for the HD-DVD players to get the "maximum quality DtHD can do. Here is why, and be ready for an education.

If you send an undecoded audio format (any of them including the legacy DD/DTS) to the receiver it is called a digital "Bitstream". Once it goes to the receiver for decoding it is processed then converted to ANALOG to be sent to the amplifier (unless the receiver has a digital amp then it is converted by the amp to ANALOG). After the ANALOG conversion it is sent to the speakers outputs because ALL speakers only accept ANALOG signals.

It has no affect on SQ if the decoding is done in the player or the receiver. Actually, Dolby Labs prefers it to be done in the players/source rather than the receiver. You see, you are "GUESSING" it gets sent as LPCM, but I have the facts and I KNOW it does. Do you even know what LPCM is? See the difference?

PS. Did you see this article by a (now admitted) former self-professed BD fan called Bill Hunt? Here is what he said (with the link following to see for yourself):

Finally, here's that bit of great HD-DVD news... Toshiba has officially released version 2.0 of their firmware for the HD-A1 and HD-XA1 HD-DVD players. It's available now via Ethernet download (just follow your player's instructions, as listed in the manual). According to Toshiba: "This firmware update adds support for certain anticipated network delivered content in future HD DVD discs, improves certain video and audio processing capabilities, as well as addresses certain disc playback and HDMI/DVI related problems identified by Toshiba." So what exactly does that mean? Check THIS out: "Support for Dolby True HD is extended from two channels to 5.1, which will be available in full resolution on the HDMI and analog 5.1 outputs and down-mixed to a DTS bit stream on the SPDIF output." FULL 5.1 TrueHD support! Keep in mind, the player was shipped with 2.0 support only. A lot of people are already talking about the new firmware over at AVS Forum, and it sounds as if it's pretty great. Guess I know what I'll be doing tonight! You can find official details about the firmware update here at Toshiba's HD-DVD website. Click on "Support," then "Firmware Update V2.0" to read more specifics. Thanks to Bits reader Michael G. for the heads-up.

That's a very cool development, I'll tell you. I'm somewhat surprised to find myself saying this, but HD-DVD is quietly making Blu-ray Disc look pretty silly. Motivated as I've been by a desire to see this format war end quickly, I was quick to sing the potential praises of Blu-ray Disc early on, simply because it seemed to have the clear advantages of better technology and much broader studio support, plus the potential market-share dominance of the forthcoming PS3 game system. And to be honest, my very early experiences with HD-DVD were disappointing. Since that time, however, an interesting this has happened... the early Blu-ray experience has turned out to be pretty lackluster too. Discs have looked bad, the Samsung player is a disaster and Sony's over-priced the PS3 right out of the market (you'll be able to buy both an Xbox 360 AND a Nintendo Wii for the price of a PS3). Sony and their BD camp allies are just not delivering on the promise of their format - period. Meanwhile, HD-DVD software and Toshiba's hardware (via these firmware updates) just keeps getting better and better. And get this: Sony STILL can't get their 50GB dual-layered Blu-ray Discs to work right on the existing and prototype players. The current Samsung player, as shipped, will not play them. How do you like them apples? Ouch.

If the BD camp doesn't do something dramatic and fast... they will have lost the hearts and minds of the early adopters to HD-DVD. To my thinking at least, HD-DVD is looking better and better all the time... and it seems to me it's now the format to beat.

Have a great weekend, folks. Stay tuned...

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

This is HUGE that Bill Hunt now likes HD-DVD better. He actually went to a Pioneer facility and worked with the engineers to prove that the early problems with the Samsung BD player was the reason for the poor PQ, and the Pioneer engineers showed him (really BS though), that it was the Samsung that was the PQ problem just after it was released.

Sorry Jimmy, but your BD world is crumbling. Nothing can play the BD50 discs yet. This is a HUGE problem, especially coming from someone with an inside track to the BD companies.
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Old 08-26-2006, 08:05 AM   #10  
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Heres a question Disneys titles are labled on the cover art as having HD sound. I am wondering if this is Dolby TrueHD or something else.

Heres a message from the bits from April that confirms what I have been saying scrool down the page a bit.

Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 08-26-2006 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 08-26-2006, 08:08 PM   #11  
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Still waiting PFC5. I have quoted the bits completly disprove everything you have been saying. Both formats need HDMI 1.3 and new recievers to get TrueHD sound. What people are listening to is not full TrueHD. However earley reviews say the discs sound amazing even downconverted to LPCM. So I absolutly can't wait to hear HD sound when we finally get to hear it in all its glory.
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Old 08-26-2006, 09:58 PM   #12  
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PFC5, I have to admire your patience with Jimmy and this continuing circular argument.

Jimmy, do you actually ever read some of the links the guys post or are you just too wrapped up in making everything fit your world view to bother?

Your link is from a four month old article which at the rate things change might as well have been in the last decade.

Here is a quote from the Tolshiba support web site as to DTHD implementation with v2.0

"Q. What are the added Dolby True HD features?

A. Support for Dolby True HD is extended from two channels to 5.1 which will be
available in full resolution on the HDMI and analog 5.1 outputs and down-mixed
to a DTS bitstream on the SPDIF output. "

As to your statement: "Current gen recievers can't recognize a TrueHD signal no matter what the player is capable of", since the player is doing the decoding and the signal is sent straight to the preamps and amps, the receiver doesn't have to be capable of anything except amplification.

What part of FULL RESOLUTION on hdmi and analog 5.1 don't you understand? It's fun to have some opposing viewpoints and heated debate but try to avoid the editorial equivalent of "vaporware."

Last edited by Jerry1808; 08-26-2006 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 08-26-2006, 10:10 PM   #13  
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Originally Posted by Jerry1808
PFC5, I have to admire your patience with Jimmy and this continuing circular argument.

Jimmy, do you actually ever read some of the links the guys post or are you just too wrapped up in making everything fit your world view to bother?

Your link is from a four month old article which at the rate things change might as well have been in the last decade.

Here is a quote from the Tolshiba support web site as to DTHD implementation with v2.0

"Q. What are the added Dolby True HD features?

A. Support for Dolby True HD is extended from two channels to 5.1 which will be
available in full resolution on the HDMI and analog 5.1 outputs and down-mixed
to a DTS bitstream on the SPDIF output. "

What part of FULL RESOLUTION on hdmi and analog 5.1 don't you understand? It's fun to have some opposing viewpoints and heated debate but try to avoid the editorial equivalent of "vaporware."
What about my link from the digital bits. That means nothing. Let me quote it.

"So the basic problem with all of these audio formats, is that there's currently no hardware available - either HD-DVD players or surround sound receivers - that supports them all fully yet. This will change starting later this year, when players and receivers fully compatible with Plus, TrueHD and DTS-HD are released, equipped with specific HDMI 1.3 connections. Current HDMI connections don't actually allow for the full-bandwidth capabilities of True HD and DTS-HD (and Toslink and either digital or analog coax connections don't have the bandwidth to allow them period). So to experience full-resolution, multi-channel audio via Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD, you'll eventually NEED to upgrade to new hardware equipped with HDMI 1.3 - both your player AND your receiver. Is it any wonder why we've told most of you to just wait on HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc? Even if you do buy an HD-DVD player now, you'll STILL have to buy another player later on if you want the full audio capability!"

Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 08-26-2006 at 10:20 PM..
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Old 08-26-2006, 10:26 PM   #14  
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The part of your Digital Bits article referring to the audio codecs was written on 4/26. As I recall the Toshiba A1 was released about mid April so the author of that piece had probably never even seen the A1 let alone be aware of its DAC's capabilities at the time.

Now we're all aware and with v2.0 it fully supports DTHD. An outdated blog does not in the "here and now" substantiate your position. Check out the firmware update on Toshibas support page and tell me how the patch doesn't provide THD with current receivers. http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/hddvd/

Last edited by Jerry1808; 08-26-2006 at 10:36 PM..
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Old 08-26-2006, 10:36 PM   #15  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry1808
The part of your Digital Bits article referring to the audio codecs was written on 4/26. As I recall the Toshiba A1 was released about mid April so the author of that piece had probably never even seen the A1 let alone be aware of its DAC's capabilities at the time.

Now we're all aware and with v2.0 it fully supports DTHD. An outdated blog does not in the "here and now" substantiate your position.
The HD-A1 was released on April 18 over a week before this article was written.

You don't understand. This upgrade allows the player to output TrueHD at full resolution. Most DVD players can output DTS but if you have no DTS reciever its useless. Without HDMI 1.3 and a reciever capable of TrueHD the player can't output the signal to anything that can play it back. The only thing it can do is downconvert it to LPCM which at full resolution totally rocks and is the best the formats have ever heard so far but its not TrueHD. Why this upgrade is great is that previously it only outputted TrueHD at 2.0 LPCM now its 5.1. Which is more then good enough for me at the moment.
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