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Crazy Bluray pricing!

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Old 07-24-2012, 03:41 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
That info would be 6 years and 9 months after DVD's launch, which would put Blu-ray's comparable period at around the end of March next year.
Keep in mind that DVD was not done as a national release in March 1997. I think it was initially 6 cities in the USA which was expanded to all in Nov. 1997.

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What was interesting was the 43% YoY growth in players shipped to retail. That's the kind of hardware growth one would expect from a successful format after years five or six. Blu-ray SAL YoY growth is almost zero or in the single digits.
Again, the difference between a revolutionary format and an evolutionary format.

DVD retail sales grew to $11.6 billion in calendar 2003, an increase of 33 percent over last year. Consumers also spent $4.5 billion renting DVDs, up 55 percent from 2002.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:14 PM   #167
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Keep in mind that DVD was not done as a national release in March 1997. I think it was initially 6 cities in the USA which was expanded to all in Nov. 1997.
That's true, but I figured a launch date is a launch date and should be adhered to for consistency. Some people think Blu-ray's launch date should be shifted forward for comparison purposes but they don't realize that DVD had a soft launch as well.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:56 PM   #168
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I find it interesting that the list comes from 2003 - 6 years after the launch of DVD. So how was the adoption rate for DVD at the end of 2003?

DVD Players in More Than Half of U.S. Homes And Expected to Reach Two Thirds in 2004

http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/010804.htm

And they didn't count any game consoles in those numbers.
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That info would be 6 years and 9 months after DVD's launch, which would put Blu-ray's comparable period at around the end of March next year.

What was interesting was the 43% YoY growth in players shipped to retail. That's the kind of hardware growth one would expect from a successful format after years five or six. Blu-ray SAL YoY growth is almost zero or in the single digits.
Yup, and thats why arguments like "just wait" are so laughable. Wait for what? There are no signs that there is anything to wait for! Bluray has pretty much shown us what it is capable of already. Topping out about 3 Billion in sell through. If player sales are pretty flat? And Catalog doesn't sell? Where is all this growth in sell through going to come from?
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:08 PM   #169
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Yup, and thats why arguments like "just wait" are so laughable. Wait for what? There are no signs that there is anything to wait for! Bluray has pretty much shown us what it is capable of already. Topping out about 3 Billion in sell through. If player sales are pretty flat? And Catalog doesn't sell? Where is all this growth in sell through going to come from?
At times I wonder if things would be any different, if the Chinese manufacturers stopped making dvd-only players and only made bluray/dvd/upscaling players which sell at $20 each retail (in American dollars). (ie. Absolute bottom of the barrel entry level players).
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:51 PM   #170
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At times I wonder if things would be any different, if the Chinese manufacturers stopped making dvd-only players and only made bluray/dvd/upscaling players which sell at $20 each retail (in American dollars). (ie. Absolute bottom of the barrel entry level players).
I have thought that too. What I now think is nothing different would be happening. Prices on Bluray players are already pretty dang low for what you get. Bluray/DVD/Streaming. Yet player sales are flat? Seems like the people who wanted to do the upgrade have done it. When a DVD player dies in the wild it will probably get replaced with a Bluray player. But that kind of sale doesn't lead to a lot of Blurays being bought. I think that the new owner will buy the new releases on Bluray. That's a given seeing that the price for the Bluray is about the same and may come with a DVD AND Digital copy too?! Sounds like a no brainier!

But this scenario doesn't give much hope for catalog sales. Look at how poor catalog is selling. The studios desperately needed Catalog to sell well like it did on DVD. Didn't and not going to happen. This is why I argued at how important i thought Catalog sales were. I think we all knew new releases were a given once someone converted to Bluray. I thought catalog would take off. It did in the beginning with the early adopter crowd here. But as that sector of the market got saturated catalog sales seemed to stall. That was my mistake in the beginning. Judging catalog sales from the way people on forums like this were buying them up. But it soon became clear from catalog sales numbers that I was mistaken. I pointed out the problem I was seeing, only to be met with "catalog sales are not important". That was a long running argument that eventually turned into "Catalog sales are not THAT important". Then "Catalog sales are not as important as new releases".

I think it's clear that Catalog sales are very important. And for long term success of a format and profit for the the studios, more important. Without them the studios are basically starting from scratch and leaving a bunch of profit collecting on a shelf somewhere. Or sell the stuff for 7.88 or eventually less at Walmart.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:10 PM   #171
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Wonder how low the price of new dvd-only players can go down to. IIRC, patents on dvd start expiring this year.

For the case of bluray, I would guess the royalties will limit how low in price a "bottom of the barrel" bluray player can go down to. One organization collecting bluray royalties, claims a royalty rate on a single BD player is $9.

http://www.one-blue.com/royalty-rates/
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:20 AM   #172
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For the case of bluray, I would guess the royalties will limit how low in price a "bottom of the barrel" bluray player can go down to. One organization collecting bluray royalties, claims a royalty rate on a single BD player is $9.

http://www.one-blue.com/royalty-rates/
Plus $4.50/player for premier-bd license.

http://www.premier-bd.com/faq_royalty.html

Plus $2.00/player for MPEG-2 license. Plus fees due to the BDA, fees for BD+, and per device fees for H.264, VC-1, Dolby, DTS, HDMI, HDCP, , etc.

Of course if you cross license with other patent holders, cost goes down for everyone in the "club".
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:39 AM   #173
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Plus $4.50/player for premier-bd license.

http://www.premier-bd.com/faq_royalty.html

Plus $2.00/player for MPEG-2 license. Plus fees due to the BDA, fees for BD+, and per device fees for H.264, VC-1, Dolby, DTS, HDMI, HDCP, , etc.

Of course if you cross license with other patent holders, cost goes down for everyone in the "club".
At times I wonder to what degree, how much of this sorta stuff has been holding back any mass adoption of bluray.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:43 PM   #174
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I find it interesting that the list comes from 2003 - 6 years after the launch of DVD. So how was the adoption rate for DVD at the end of 2003?

DVD Players in More Than Half of U.S. Homes And Expected to Reach Two Thirds in 2004

http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/010804.htm

And they didn't count any game consoles in those numbers.
Agreed hardware number is a better baromoter for success. Not the amount of bargain bin titles which would make DVD a failed format.
Anyone remember those columbia house pamphlets you'd get every few months in the mail? really pushing those 50 cent dvds. And this was before netflix and redbox were popular.

Last edited by Echo13; 07-25-2012 at 09:08 PM..
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:04 AM   #175
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Agreed hardware number is a better baromoter for success. Not the amount of bargain bin titles which would make DVD a failed format.
Obviously that barometer means squat as DVD is a highly successful format. But here is a question for you . . .

WHEN did titles hit those DVD bargin bins? How long after initial release?

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Anyone remember those columbia house pamphlets you'd get every few months in the mail? really pushing those 50 cent dvds. And this was before netflix and redbox were popular.
LMAO! Your memory stinks. To get those 50 cent DVDs you had to sign up and agree to buy X number of DVDs at a substantially higher price. In the $20 to $25 range. Then you had to deal with making sure you sent a card back on time or else you were automatically sent the "title of the whatever" (week/biweek/month) and billed for it.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:14 AM   #176
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Obviously that barometer means squat as DVD is a highly successful format. But here is a question for you . . .

WHEN did titles hit those DVD bargin bins? How long after initial release?



LMAO! Your memory stinks. To get those 50 cent DVDs you had to sign up and agree to buy X number of DVDs at a substantially higher price. In the $20 to $25 range. Then you had to deal with making sure you sent a card back on time or else you were automatically sent the "title of the whatever" (week/biweek/month) and billed for it.
Exactly Lee.

I applaud you for taking the time to respond to that post. I was thinking the same thing but thought "pft! Forget it"! It was so ridiculous.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:40 PM   #177
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Obviously that barometer means squat as DVD is a highly successful format. But here is a question for you . . .
Agreed. This thread means squat. Terrible terrible barometer.
Actually no it isnt. Like I said the more bargain bin titles, the better the format. And DVD had alot more bargain bin titles, and was thus a better format. Thats the only relation bargain bin titles have with the format according to history.

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WHEN did titles hit those DVD bargin bins? How long after initial release?
1-2 years+ like blu ray titles usually, some exceptions. You mustve missed the link I gave where NEW DVD titles were available for preorder for $10 at Walmart.

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LMAO! Your memory stinks. To get those 50 cent DVDs you had to sign up and agree to buy X number of DVDs at a substantially higher price. In the $20 to $25 range. Then you had to deal with making sure you sent a card back on time or else you were automatically sent the "title of the whatever" (week/biweek/month) and billed for it.
And?
Still a heavy discount. Some of you pretending DVDs were $20+ until 2007.
Columbia House also had a similiar BD deal. Wasnt nearly as cheap
But I guess in that case it means BD was too niche to be sold as cheap. Excuses will always change.

Last edited by Echo13; 07-27-2012 at 11:43 PM..
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:40 AM   #178
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1-2 years+ like blu ray titles usually, some exceptions. You mustve missed the link I gave where NEW DVD titles were available for preorder for $10 at Walmart.
Wasn't that a special circumstances case? Wasn't Walmart trying to accomplish something specific?

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And?
Still a heavy discount. Some of you pretending DVDs were $20+ until 2007.
Columbia House also had a similiar BD deal. Wasnt nearly as cheap
But I guess in that case it means BD was too niche to be sold as cheap. Excuses will always change.
Again the discount was a come on. You couldn't just buy some DVDs for 50 cents each. So that makes your example invalid. You do know they do/did the same thing with books right?

Maybe the CH BD deal wasn't as cheap because BD wasn't being adopted as quickly as DVD was. That wouldn't be an excuse . . . it would be a fact.
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Old 07-28-2012, 05:28 AM   #179
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From Jeff Baker, EVP and GM of theatrical catalog for Warner Home Video:

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But just because the studio puts so much effort into collector’s boxed sets, it doesn’t mean Warner isn’t keeping an eye on the budget Blu-ray business as well.

In the past 12 months the studio has seen a “significant” uptake on consumer purchases of lower-priced Blu-rays, according to Jeff Baker.

“In the under $10 retail segment of consumer purchases for Blu-ray in 2011, 15% of the business was under $10 purchases,” he said. “We’re estimating this year 35% of the business will be in the under $10 segment. So consumers are saying, if we can get the price down low enough, they do want to replace their DVD library with Blu-ray films.”

Speaking with Andy Parsons, SVP of corporate communications for Pioneer Electronics and chair of the BDA promotion committee in the United States, and Ned Price, VP of mastering for Warner Bros. Technical Operations, Baker also gave a hint at what consumers can expect in 2013 when Warner turns 90.

“We’re going to be converting a lot of films to Blu-ray next year, including five best picture winners that have never been on Blu-ray,” he said.
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/war...-blu-ray-27928
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:23 PM   #180
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From Jeff Baker, EVP and GM of theatrical catalog for Warner Home Video:



http://www.homemediamagazine.com/war...-blu-ray-27928
Hey Tower. Ya that was being discussed in another thread. But it's very relevant here. The jump from 15 to 35% is pretty amazing isn't it? That just shows you how devalued Bluray has become. But hey as long as the studios keep releasing some titles it's all good I guess.
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