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Old 02-05-2012, 11:54 AM   #1366  
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
I'm all for Kosty posting here as I enjoy his thoughts and opinions, but if he's just going to attack all of us there is not much point in responding. He does not have the upper hand here like he did on that other forum where he was immune to any type of personal attack. Perhaps we've been a bit mean to him. Let's try and see where he's going with all of this. Maybe he's just misunderstood.

But calling us "pessimistic" etc. over and over again won't fly.
I am for anyone and everyone posting here.

I just don't think anyone should have have carte blanche to constantly diminish a posters viewpoint or an entire dissenting opinion by labeling it as pessimistic.

And make no doubt. That is the intent and effect of Kosty's use of the term pessimistic. To dismiss dissenting opinion rather than engage it, and the valid (and sometimes accurate) predictions and viewpoints of dissenting opinion.


So yes, I agree.... calling someone or a particular viewpoint "pessimistic" over and over again here won't fly. Everyone gets heard here. And Kosty does not get to paint an entire viewpoint or any singles posters view as not valid.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:57 AM   #1367  
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I certainly do not have a negative view of this forum where I have been a active poster since 2007 nor I have I been banned by any site I have participated in throughout the years.

I appreciate all perspectives even when they disagree with my own and when I disagree with comments made I feel free to express my point of view to the best of my abilities.
So you wouldn't call this a "negative view?"

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Besides eliminating the need for the gang there to personally respond as much to more pro Blu-ray optimism as most of the regular gang there is more of the pessimistic side of the discussion so they tend to slap themselves on the back as they mostly all have a similar point of view.

It does seem like some posters there do not appreciate differing points of view as much as you do.
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/high...ml#post2294393
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:01 PM   #1368  
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So you wouldn't call this a "negative view?"



http://forums.highdefdigest.com/high...ml#post2294393
You mean where he and cakefoo pretty much rip on all of us? Yeah, I enjoyed that read. No doubt they didn't get any time of infrac for doing so either, while if you or I responded we'd be hit with one.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:01 PM   #1369  
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So you wouldn't call this a "negative view?"



http://forums.highdefdigest.com/high...ml#post2294393
And I will state again that I do not know of any voice that has been silenced here.

This is truly an open forum. It is more difficult to play here if you don't want to debate, or don't want to deal with informed people. But it is the best place to be if you do want actual discussion.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:13 PM   #1370  
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Just because I have an more optimistic point of view or I can see progress when some want to focus on the negative and be more pessimistic throughout the years does not mean I appreciate all points of view.

Complaining about personal attacks from you guys has all sorts of irony.

Obviously others in the past have thought you have done so to a degree that it has gotten you in trouble at other sites and that's not my doing its your own.

A quick look at posting history before one got in trouble can usually explain what happened.

Last edited by Kosty; 02-05-2012 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:18 PM   #1371  
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I was mostly trying to defend or express my appreciation of bruceames in that discussion with cakefoo as I thought he was being overly critical of this site and of bruce in particular. I appreciate that you are expressing your point of view here and that the level of personal attacks here seems to more subdued in tone.

But I certainly feel that some of here express a point of view was is more pessimistic than not only my own but others I deal with that understand the consumer marketplace and retail situation of home media.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:28 PM   #1372  
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I was mostly trying to defend or express my appreciation of bruceames in that discussion with cakefoo as I thought he was being overly critical of this site and of bruce in particular. I appreciate that you are expressing your point of view here and that the level of personal attacks here seems to more subdued in tone.

But I certainly feel that some of here express a point of view was is more pessimistic than not only my own but others I deal with that understand the consumer marketplace and retail situation of home media.
Describing as pessimistic those whose views have turned out to be spot on is delusional.

You can disagree without labeling viewpoints or individuals as "pessimistic" in a broad attempt to dismiss or diminish them.


And if you cannot refrain from a dismissive attack, expect to be called on it here. Especially if you couple it with attacking the entire forum in general as participating in "group speak" simply because some can and do express valid viewpoints that are different from yours.



Again:

Calling someone or a particular viewpoint "pessimistic" over and over again here won't fly. Everyone gets heard here. And Kosty does not get to paint an entire viewpoint or any singles posters view as not valid.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:31 PM   #1373  
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
I was mostly trying to defend or express my appreciation of bruceames in that discussion with cakefoo as I thought he was being overly critical of this site and of bruce in particular. I appreciate that you are expressing your point of view here and that the level of personal attacks here seems to more subdued in tone.

But I certainly feel that some of here express a point of view was is more pessimistic than not only my own but others I deal with that understand the consumer marketplace and retail situation of home media.
So you feel that those of us who are pessimistic towards BD's success and future growth don't have a grasp of the consumer marketplace and retail situation of home media?

Only those that are optomistic about BD do?
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:36 PM   #1374  
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Don't worry - you'll never get banned on that other forum because doing so would likely cause them the loss of thousands of views which turn into ad revenue etc.
I have posted comprehensive sales statistics and made commentary posts on many sites throughout the years without any sort of compensation in any way or consideration of what traffic I was sending to any site.

I used to mirror the sales statistics here for years until the thread and the views became so low viewed last year that it was me and Lee Stewart posting and looking at the thread for the most part.

I've always appreciated mods on any site that I have participated in and always have tried to play by the rules and stay within the accepted bounds of the discussion as they have been defined.

If the quantity or quality of my commentary and legacy of posting helps me to understand where those boundaries are or gives me come consideration I think it applies to any long term contributors as well.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:44 PM   #1375  
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So you feel that those of us who are pessimistic towards BD's success and future growth don't have a grasp of the consumer marketplace and retail situation of home media?

Only those that are optomistic about BD do?
I appreciate your perspective as I do others.

Just because someone is more pessimistic about Blu-ray or always looks to the negative side of the equation does not mean that they may not have a strong understanding of those things.

I think some that are more pessimistic have a better grasp of the consumer marketplace than others or experience with retail managements or home video operations than others.

In your case, I think you have a better more balanced view than others and even when I disagree with your logic or conclusions I appreciate your point of view in these discussions.

But others here seem to be routinely mystified of common retail marketing or product placement or point of sale or advertising techniques or at least pretend they do not to be argumentative.

But all of the industry or retailer people I talk to tend to be far more optimistic or at less pessimistic on Blu-ray than many of the more active posters here. For them Blu-ray is what it is, its a successful high margin product and they are less disappointed in its sales magnitude or growth or quality than some here always seem to be.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:47 PM   #1376  
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Since it still bears repeating:

Calling someone or a particular viewpoint "pessimistic" over and over again here won't fly. Everyone gets heard here. And Kosty does not get to paint an entire viewpoint or any singles posters view as not valid.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #1377  
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And kudos to Kosty for a masterful PR job in trying to re-define how he uses "pessimistic".

All of us are wise and observant enough to know that he actually uses the term against other posters in a dismissive stance. An example response to dissenting opinion from a poster:

Kosty: "That is just another pessimistic post (blah, bah, dismiss the point, blah, blah, dismiss the poster)."

Calling someone or a particular viewpoint "pessimistic" over and over again here won't fly. We all know it's usage it to be dismissive of a point or a poster. Everyone gets heard here. And Kosty does not get to paint an entire viewpoint or any singles posters view as not valid.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #1378  
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
I appreciate your perspective as I do others.

Just because someone is more pessimistic about Blu-ray or always looks to the negative side of the equation does not mean that they may not have a strong understanding of those things.

I think some that are more pessimistic have a better grasp of the consumer marketplace than others or experience with retail managements or home video operations than others.

In your case, I think you have a better more balanced view than others and even when I disagree with your logic or conclusions I appreciate your point of view in these discussions.


Quote:
But others here seem to be routinely mystified of common retail marketing or product placement or point of sale or advertising techniques or at least pretend they do not to be argumentative.
Maybe it has to do with the "marketing speak" versus reality. For example, saying that BD is a high margin product is marketing speak. But if a retailer drops the price and uses it as a loss leader, then it wasn't a high margin product - reality.

Then you have the issue "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" . . . but if it IS broken, then you better fix it. There have been a number of attempts to "fix" BD sales such as the constant $5 coupons (that has to eat into that high margin you are always saying), windowing DVD release only titles and only offerring a BD combo (POTC4) and only including a Digital Copy in a BD Combo. I call those "fixes."

Quote:
But all of the industry or retailer people I talk to tend to be far more optimistic or at less pessimistic on Blu-ray than many of the more active posters here. For them Blu-ray is what it is, its a successful high margin product and they are less disappointed in its sales magnitude or growth or quality than some here always seem to be.
Sure - any port in a storm huh?
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:39 PM   #1379  
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Sure - any port in a storm huh?
It sure is hard to look at the massive drop in BD growth from 2010 to 2011, combined with a record drop in OD sell through and expect anyone to view the market with anything but concern at the best and disappointment at the other end.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #1380  
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
I have posted comprehensive sales statistics and made commentary posts on many sites throughout the years without any sort of compensation in any way or consideration of what traffic I was sending to any site.

I used to mirror the sales statistics here for years until the thread and the views became so low viewed last year that it was me and Lee Stewart posting and looking at the thread for the most part.

I've always appreciated mods on any site that I have participated in and always have tried to play by the rules and stay within the accepted bounds of the discussion as they have been defined.

If the quantity or quality of my commentary and legacy of posting helps me to understand where those boundaries are or gives me come consideration I think it applies to any long term contributors as well.
Well, since that other forum lost about half of it's regular posters (I see some are back as sock puppet accounts - for like the third time LOL), this place has been jumping. This thread especially. So it appears most of that type of discussion will just get moved on to this forum anyway. Hope you join us!
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