High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition Media A place to discuss BD and UHD Content from physical and digital media

Like Tree260Likes

Optical (Blu-ray/DVD) and Digital (EST/UV) Sales Thread

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-04-2012, 01:47 PM   #1321  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
Blu-ray as a higher priced more premium higher margin product packs a lot of profit per transaction so even at $2 billion and growing in revenues it generates more profit than other formats and rental alternatives would do at the same level of sales.
Actually, that is a false statement. $2B in EST would result in a higher profit margin to the studios then $2B in gross sales of BDs. EST has the highest profit margin, not BD.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 02:20 PM   #1322  
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Actually, that is a false statement. $2B in EST would result in a higher profit margin to the studios then $2B in gross sales of BDs. EST has the highest profit margin, not BD.
That's right. EST has slightly higher margin than Blu-ray for the studios. Of course it sucks for retailers if they are bypassed.

Thank you for catching that.

But since consumers seem to be more likely to pay more for a tangible physical thing they can possess more than bits in the cloud, its hard for the studios to get consumers to pay as much for EST as they are willing to pay for Blu-ray Discs.

Maybe for early windows EST may hold a higher price but its been tough convincing consumers to pay a lot for cloud based ownership. Maybe UV will help.

Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 02:23 PM   #1323  
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Blu-ray is also the only format that currently offers consumers the ability to own 3D content for use in the home. Blu-ray 3D combos offer the highest margin of all formats AFAIK.
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 02:41 PM   #1324  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
That's right. EST has slightly higher margin than Blu-ray for the studios. Of course it sucks for retailers if they are bypassed.

Thank you for catching that.


As you can see from your chart, the difference in margin from BD to EST is almost the same as it is from DVD to BD. So if you want to say that the difference is "slight", then you have to say the same about the increased margin from BD versus DVD which you never do.

Quote:
But since consumers seem to be more likely to pay more for a tangible physical thing they can possess more than bits in the cloud, its hard for the studios to get consumers to pay as much for EST as they are willing to pay for Blu-ray Discs.

Maybe for early windows EST may hold a higher price but its been tough convincing consumers to pay a lot for cloud based ownership. Maybe UV will help.

Very little effort has been put into the selling of EST to consumers. That is going to change with UV. Will it be successful? Only time will tell.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 03:06 PM   #1325  
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post


As you can see from your chart, the difference in margin from BD to EST is almost the same as it is from DVD to BD. So if you want to say that the difference is "slight", then you have to say the same about the increased margin from BD versus DVD which you never do.



Very little effort has been put into the selling of EST to consumers. That is going to change with UV. Will it be successful? Only time will tell.
That's also 2009 data.

DVD prices have fallen since then as have BD prices. But DVD BD and EST all are still massively higher margin than rental alternatives.

That's why the studios are trying to favor physical sell through and EST over Netflix Redbox and other rental choices,

I think that EST prices will have to fall and thus produce less margin to ever gain any sort of volume that would make an impact worth much in comparison with Blu-ray or DVD.
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 05:52 PM   #1326  
Steelbook Addict
 
chipvideo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
He won't.

Best Buy ws practically giving away Blu-rays for 2-3 weeks with their $5 coupon promotion and Blu-rays week to week gains were incredibly tiny.

It's time to face facts. We were right and he was wrong.
They were even selling the combo pack cheaper than the plain dvd.
chipvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 05:54 PM   #1327  
Steelbook Addict
 
chipvideo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
Its your assumption that Blu-ray will peak this year or next at those levels. If it does then I think that would be below some expectations.

But it has not happened yet as as usual I think you are too pessimistic in your assumptions that Blu-ray would peak at 1/5th of DVD.

But as I have said to you numerous time, all the non public and public projections I ever saw during the format war from either the HD DVD or Blu-ray side went only through the end of 2010 and Blu-ray by itself had exceeded those projections.

A lot more catalog titles are yet to be released and the entire slate of released Blu-ray inventory is available as proxy new releases to new owners of the format. As the user base expands routine catalog and older release sales for Blu-ray will incrementally grow over time.

Between 2010 and 2011 there was a large price drop in the average selling price of Blu-ray units sold that moderated the gains in units sold in being translated into revenue gains. That's in addition to your now routine ignoring of the strength of new releases.

It will be interesting to see how 2012 will turn out in Blu-ray revenue gains and unit gains compared to 2010 2011 and 2012.
Same old song and dance from you. Saying I am pessimistic in my assumptions. You said that all year and I was right and you were wrong. Jeez Man up already.
chipvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 05:55 PM   #1328  
Steelbook Addict
 
chipvideo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 678
Default

I prefer the term More Accurate myself.
chipvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 05:57 PM   #1329  
Keeping it F&B
 
TowerGrove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 825
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
That's right. EST has slightly higher margin than Blu-ray for the studios. Of course it sucks for retailers if they are bypassed.

Thank you for catching that.

But since consumers seem to be more likely to pay more for a tangible physical thing they can possess more than bits in the cloud, its hard for the studios to get consumers to pay as much for EST as they are willing to pay for Blu-ray Discs.

Maybe for early windows EST may hold a higher price but its been tough convincing consumers to pay a lot for cloud based ownership. Maybe UV will help.


Not all electronic downloads are cloud based ownership. Example: Ultraviolet, although you can play your file from the cloud you can also download to your home server or computer to play. No further need for "Cloud".
TowerGrove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 05:57 PM   #1330  
Steelbook Addict
 
chipvideo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
Of course Best Buy had low price points for Blu-ray catalog titles on some holiday weeks and as routine bargain Blu-ray titles in their product mix.
They were dumping product because they had too much stock of procuct that was not selling well. That is what you do when you overbought and mis-guaged the market. DUH!!!
chipvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 05:59 PM   #1331  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
That's also 2009 data.

DVD prices have fallen since then as have BD prices. But DVD BD and EST all are still massively higher margin than rental alternatives.
The retail prices for DVD and BD are falling. That may not be the case for the wholesale prices as that is how the studios derive their margin.

Quote:
I think that EST prices will have to fall and thus produce less margin to ever gain any sort of volume that would make an impact worth much in comparison with Blu-ray or DVD.
Even with a small price reduction, EST will probably still have a higher margin (per unit sale) then BD due to the fact that there is no replication, packaging or shipping costs involved. If a studio is selling EST through their own website (like Paramount is doing) then in essence, they are getting retail prices.

Last edited by Lee Stewart; 02-04-2012 at 06:08 PM..
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 06:00 PM   #1332  
Keeping it F&B
 
TowerGrove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 825
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post


As you can see from your chart, the difference in margin from BD to EST is almost the same as it is from DVD to BD. So if you want to say that the difference is "slight", then you have to say the same about the increased margin from BD versus DVD which you never do.



Very little effort has been put into the selling of EST to consumers. That is going to change with UV. Will it be successful? Only time will tell.
The studios have no choice but to make it successful. Im wondering what "rabbit" they may pull out of the hat to entice consumers. I probably shouldn't hold my breath though, I may pass out waiting
TowerGrove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 06:03 PM   #1333  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
GizmoDVD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
That's also 2009 data.

DVD prices have fallen since then as have BD prices. But DVD BD and EST all are still massively higher margin than rental alternatives.

That's why the studios are trying to favor physical sell through and EST over Netflix Redbox and other rental choices,

I think that EST prices will have to fall and thus produce less margin to ever gain any sort of volume that would make an impact worth much in comparison with Blu-ray or DVD.
Woah, your still posting here? After your recent comments on that other forum that HDF was such a bad place to post, I'm surprised to see you post here! What happened?

Blu-ray has dropped like a rock. Last year was one of the worst growth cycles in it's history!
GizmoDVD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 06:04 PM   #1334  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
GizmoDVD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerGrove View Post
The studios have no choice but to make it successful. Im wondering what "rabbit" they may pull out of the hat to entice consumers. I probably shouldn't hold my breath though, I may pass out waiting
Look at the 'rabbit' they pulled for Blu-ray.

Packing in a Digital Copy.
Packing in a DVD.
Packing in a UV Copy.

And yet Blu-ray is still a failure.
GizmoDVD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2012, 06:14 PM   #1335  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerGrove View Post
The studios have no choice but to make it successful.
With over 30 years of consumers buying their movies on physical media, IMO, there will be consumer resistance to buying EST simply because it requires the consumer to attach their PC to their TV for the best presentation.

Such is not the case for streaming - only requires a BD player.

Quote:
Im wondering what "rabbit" they may pull out of the hat to entice consumers. I probably shouldn't hold my breath though, I may pass out waiting
Windowing - making EST available before OD.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:59 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands