High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition Media A place to discuss BD and UHD Content from physical and digital media

Like Tree260Likes

Optical (Blu-ray/DVD) and Digital (EST/UV) Sales Thread

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-03-2012, 08:39 AM   #1261  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 17,128
Default

OK guys, enough of the bickering please. Let's try to show a little more respect for each other and for the lurkers who read this. Thanks.
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 08:39 AM   #1262  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
mikemorel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
The decline was not referring to actual Blu-ray player units sold in that period, they actually went up.

Blu-ray players still sold more units this year than last holiday season.
You got proof of that, in the US?
mikemorel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 08:54 AM   #1263  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 17,128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post
Thanks for mocking me Bruce, and after acting so sincere in your replies to me. I'll be sure to note that next time I feel like having a serious conversation with you. I feel betrayed. Good job! See you around Smackdown.
You're too serious cakefoo. I appreciate the work you did on that table and I agree with its finding to some degree, just not to the magnitude you speak of. That's because you're relying on The-Numbers for the base of that info and have serious doubts about the accuracy at that site.
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 09:26 AM   #1264  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post
You got proof of that, in the US?
According to the DEG, the number of BD playback devices sold in Q4 2011 was the same as Q4 2010.

But Kosty says that NPD and the CEA say more.

It's a case of selective evidence. We use the DEG numbers as a benchmark . . . unless it falls short of some yardstick that will prop up your argument, then you are supposed ignore the DEG data and get to use the data that supports your argument.

Last edited by Lee Stewart; 02-03-2012 at 09:53 AM..
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 09:47 AM   #1265  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
Even that quote is not as conclusive as you make it sound. Its also a failure of your own imagination to see the alternative explanations.

First off, that comment in response to the question was qualified in plain English "said it might" which you ignore.

Secondly their are two components to the equation and your own personal biases and assumptions only are focusing on on side the Blu-ray growth comment.

The other side is DVD declines which we all know were greater than anticipated because of the rise of cheap rentals from Netflix disc rental and streaming and $1 a day Redbox kiosk rentals.

Besides the context of the comment in a public forum that had some PR and market anticipation overtones for promotion of Blu-ray.

The obvious other side that you seem to ignore is that the DVD side of the equation dropped faster than anticipated.

Blu-ray's growth by the end of 2010 might very have as expected or even better than expected but that they failed to cover DVD's attrition because DVDs attrition was just higher than anticipated because of the poor economy and cheaper rental alternatives such as Netflix and Redbox kiosks.
Please Kosty. All those comments you posted say nothing. And I mean nothing about expectations! And you have the nerve to criticize Psounds comment? There is no flexibility with you. You know there were expectations. The graph Mike provided shows that. That's all the proof you should need. But you want to ignore those lowered projections. Amazing how you say you believe in extraterrestrial life without proof. Yet you cannot accept that chart as proof of expectations. Your true colors are shining through again. Like a rainbow. Don't make me sing!
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 09:52 AM   #1266  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
You're too serious cakefoo. I appreciate the work you did on that table and I agree with its finding to some degree, just not to the magnitude you speak of. That's because you're relying on The-Numbers for the base of that info and have serious doubts about the accuracy at that site.
Exactly. I even said they make some sense. He just doesn't want a debate where both sides can debate fairly. He wants it one sided. If not he's going to run away? Kosty might want to transfer his sales thread here. Because smackdown is dead. And I've decided to leave that site myself and only post here. Unless Kosty just wants to debate with cakefoo.
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:05 AM   #1267  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
Exactly. I even said they make some sense. He just doesn't want a debate where both sides can debate fairly. He wants it one sided. If not he's going to run away? Kosty might want to transfer his sales thread here. Because smackdown is dead. And I've decided to leave that site myself and only post here. Unless Kosty just wants to debate with cakefoo.
I am sure it is frustrating for some that they cannot effectively silence dissenting opinion as they have in the past.

The facts are clear and indisputable.

Studio execs had clear and stated expectations that Blu-ray failed to meet. That is a statement of fact.


EDIT: I also don't expect Kosty to ever primarily post at a site where he cannot silence dissenting opinion. He will peek in once in a while when he realizes he is talking to himself at other sites, but will disappear to lick his wounds and throw out insults on other forums when challenged with facts about Blu-ray's failure to meet stated studio expectations.

Apologies to Bruce. I will move on now.

Last edited by PSound; 02-03-2012 at 10:22 AM..
PSound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:25 AM   #1268  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
mikemorel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
According to the DEG, the number of BD playback devices sold in Q4 2011 was the same as Q4 2010.
Some estimates say PS3 unit sales grew by 100K YoY in the 4th Quarter 2011 (due to price cut). Which would mean BD player unit sales acually declined slightly.

Quote:
But Kosty says that NPD and the CEA say more.
Not in print they don't.

BDA Sees Blu-ray Growth For Years To Come

Not a word about blu-ray player unit sales.

Quote:
It's a case of selective evidence. We use the DEG numbers as a benchmark . . . unless it falls short of some yardstick that will prop up your argument, then you are supposed ignore the DEG data and get to use the data that supports your argument.
Funny, if blu-ray player sales in the U.S. were growing YoY, you would think they would publish that data. Instead we get heresay.
mikemorel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:33 AM   #1269  
Steelbook Addict
 
chipvideo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 678
Default

I guess the stacks of $59 players at Costco were there for a reason. I never did see one person with one in the cart FYI.
chipvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:38 AM   #1270  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 17,128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
Exactly. I even said they make some sense. He just doesn't want a debate where both sides can debate fairly. He wants it one sided. If not he's going to run away? Kosty might want to transfer his sales thread here. Because smackdown is dead. And I've decided to leave that site myself and only post here. Unless Kosty just wants to debate with cakefoo.
Yeah, I agreed with its premise, and its a great idea and I always appreciate the effort. But I can't go so far as to sign off on it when the evidence is based on data that is highly suspect.

But yes it is true that Blu-ray sales are underperforming in part because of relatively weak carry over. I don't think anybody denies that. But at the same time, DVD is doing so well and it has the same weak carry over. It is overperforming by the same degree that Blu-ray is underperforming, so the real answers must lie not just in the lack of carry over, but elsewhere as well.
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #1271  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSound View Post
The facts are clear and indisputable.

Studio execs had clear and stated expectations that Blu-ray failed to meet. That is a statement of fact.
Clear expectations usually aren't founded on the word "might".

It's weird how you are so concerned with bluray when you don't even own a player.

Last edited by bombsnizzle; 02-03-2012 at 10:46 AM..
bombsnizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:41 AM   #1272  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
Yeah, I agreed with its premise, and its a great idea and I always appreciate the effort. But I can't go so far as to sign off on it when the evidence is based on data that is highly suspect.

But yes it is true that Blu-ray sales are underperforming in part because of relatively weak carry over. I don't think anybody denies that. But at the same time, DVD is doing so well and it has the same weak carry over. It is overperforming by the same degree that Blu-ray is underperforming, so the real answers must lie not just in the lack of carry over, but elsewhere as well.
Exactly. The deviation for DVD and Blu-ray cannot and should not be ignored.

Whether this is a short term trend or the start of something larger is still to be revealed, but the deviation is the story.
PSound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:43 AM   #1273  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 17,128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipvideo View Post
I guess the stacks of $59 players at Costco were there for a reason. I never did see one person with one in the cart FYI.
That is odd, that you see people all the time with HDTVs in their cart, but not Blu-ray players. But then I guess the HDTVs are more noticeable.

I guess it goes to show that upscaled DVD is good enough for most people. They bring home their 42" or 50" TVs and watch DVDs on it from 10-12 feet away and think, "this looks good". It never really occurs to them that they need to upgrade to Blu-ray. And from where they watch it from (10-12 feet), they actually don't. You really can't tell that difference from that distance and that size TV. And even if you can, it won't be much and people in general just aren't that picky about PQ (just like they weren't picky with the HD audio formats and settled for MP3).
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:50 AM   #1274  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipvideo View Post
I guess the stacks of $59 players at Costco were there for a reason. I never did see one person with one in the cart FYI.
I've seen you post this or something similar countless times.

According to you there has never been a single bluray product browsed or bought when you've been in a store. Amazing.

I bet they were all buying 360s and Toshiba DVD players.
bombsnizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 10:56 AM   #1275  
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post
You got proof of that, in the US?
Yes I do. It was in the tables presented by NPD and the CEA at CES 2012 and distributed to me and others. But the actual slide is proprietary and I can't post it openly. Units for Blu-ray players went up and the NPD report was in revenues generated, not units for that figure.

In the article it only makes sense if you understand its referring to revenues in that holiday period.
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:08 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands