High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition Media A place to discuss BD and UHD Content from physical and digital media

Like Tree260Likes

Optical (Blu-ray/DVD) and Digital (EST/UV) Sales Thread

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-05-2012, 09:23 AM   #2311  
Hidef Junkie
 
ack_bak's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
No, you are right about there being no comparison. But clearly studios were hoping for at least a little more excitement. I think part of the problem that instead of generating excitement, there is dismay at seeing this new format making their existing DVD collection look obsolete. And that tends to turn some off from collecting OD altogether.

And if the definition of success has sunk so low that it simply means that it hasn't been phased out yet, then expectations have fallen sharply indeed.
I have not doubt the studios had higher aspirations for Blu-Ray. I would argue that they also most likely did not see DVD falling as fast as it has, or digital having it's struggles. I am sure it has been a rude awakening for the studios and retailers for home video in general.

Blu-Ray is certainly part of that. My point was that if the studios felt Blu-Ray was a failure and did not offer them financial benefit then they would kill it off. Business is business and we have seen it a million times (where a company brings out a big new product that is the future, it fails, and they kill it off and move on to the next big thing).
ack_bak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 09:30 AM   #2312  
Hidef Junkie
 
ack_bak's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Like most things in life, success is not a black or white issue. It is many shades of gray.

I don't know why you think it is "successful" because it has not lived up to it's creators original expectations.

DVD makes billions per year for it's creators and supporters while BD only makes hundreds of millions. . . . enough to continue it, but hardly enough to gloat over.
Who's gloating? And yes there are very many levels of "success" and my definition can be interpreted different than yours based on your expectations. Like I said, the home video market has completely changed and has been turned on it's head. The definition of "success" will have to change too.

I just don't agree that a product has to equal or better what DVD did to be successful. If that is the case, we may not have another succesful home video format for a very long time (and that is only factoring in inflation). There is a fundamental shift from owning to cheap rentals that is not going to go away. In a digital world it will only get worse for the studios I suspect for home video.
ack_bak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 11:28 AM   #2313  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
I just don't agree that a product has to equal or better what DVD did to be successful. If that is the case, we may not have another succesful home video format for a very long time (and that is only factoring in inflation).
Every basketball player is a failure compared to Michael Jordan.
bombsnizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 12:10 PM   #2314  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
Who's gloating? And yes there are very many levels of "success" and my definition can be interpreted different than yours based on your expectations. Like I said, the home video market has completely changed and has been turned on it's head. The definition of "success" will have to change too.
Doesn't Redbox and Netflix rent BDs? What was the total 2011 BD rental revenue?

Quote:
I just don't agree that a product has to equal or better what DVD did to be successful. If that is the case, we may not have another succesful home video format for a very long time (and that is only factoring in inflation). There is a fundamental shift from owning to cheap rentals that is not going to go away. In a digital world it will only get worse for the studios I suspect for home video.
So BD has all of DVD's bells, lights and whistles along with additional ones like HD PQ, Bonus View and HD Audio, but almost 6 years after it is released, it is only getting 26% of OD sales and a substantially lower % of rental revenue. And the number of titles being released per year is still a fraction of what is released on DVD . . .

But with all that, you still label BD . . . successful.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 12:18 PM   #2315  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
Who's gloating? And yes there are very many levels of "success" and my definition can be interpreted different than yours based on your expectations. Like I said, the home video market has completely changed and has been turned on it's head. The definition of "success" will have to change too.

I just don't agree that a product has to equal or better what DVD did to be successful. If that is the case, we may not have another succesful home video format for a very long time (and that is only factoring in inflation). There is a fundamental shift from owning to cheap rentals that is not going to go away. In a digital world it will only get worse for the studios I suspect for home video.
Bluray doesn't have to equal or better DVD to be seen as successful. But I would think it would have to have some sales numbers that would put it in the ballpark as its predisessors. As it stands Bluray looks like it is going to fall way short of even VHS. To me that's very dissapointing. Bluray is going down in history as a format that did somewhere between Laserdisc and VHS. I don't see that as successful. Are all the investors in the Black with thier investment in Bluray? If that answer is no I see that as a failure. If the answer is some are I see that as a failure.
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 12:28 PM   #2316  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombsnizzle View Post
Every basketball player is a failure compared to Michael Jordan.
Are we talking about street ball players? If they are not making a living at playing basketball then yes they are. If they made it to the NBA then I would have a hard time calling them a failure. Because everyone knows making it to the NBA makes you a success. With your analogy any format released should be considered a success. You obviously think that with this analogy. LOL!

Your analogy is perhaps the stupidest one I've ever seen. Not sure why I even entertained it.
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 12:41 PM   #2317  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
No, you are right about there being no comparison. But clearly studios were hoping for at least a little more excitement. I think part of the problem that instead of generating excitement, there is dismay at seeing this new format making their existing DVD collection look obsolete. And that tends to turn some off from collecting OD altogether.

And if the definition of success has sunk so low that it simply means that it hasn't been phased out yet, then expectations have fallen sharply indeed.
Haha. That's just it. The bar has been lowered by some of these guys. The goal post moved closer. I doubt thier expectations would be set so low if it were another format we are talking about. Let's be honest here. I also find it hilarious how they ALWAYS knew Bluray would never do as well as DVD. Yet not one quote from a post of theirs saying or proving these past opinions until AFTER they realized it. LMAO!
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:17 PM   #2318  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
Are we talking about street ball players? If they are not making a living at playing basketball then yes they are. If they made it to the NBA then I would have a hard time calling them a failure. Because everyone knows making it to the NBA makes you a success.
Let me more clear since clearly this went over your head.

You do know how analogies work right?

X is to Y as A is to B.

Bird is to Nest as Beaver is to Dam.

DVD and Michael Jordan are the most successful. Bluray and any other player are less successful aka "failures".

DVD is to Michael Jordan as bluray is to any other player.

To compare any format to DVD will result in that format being classified as a failure. To compare any player to Michael Jordan will result in that player being classified as a failure, by virtues of the standards/records set by DVD/Jordan, and the unmatched performance of other formats/players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
With your analogy any format released should be considered a success.
No quite the opposite. I clearly stated "Every basketball player is a failure compared to Michael Jordan." Because no one has achieved as much. Every format is a failure compared to DVD, since no format has achieved as much. You see the analogy??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
You obviously think that with this analogy. LOL!
No, you do, because you don't understand analogies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
Your analogy is perhaps the stupidest one I've ever seen. Not sure why I even entertained it.
Says the guy that doesn't understand analogies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
Bluray doesn't have to equal or better DVD to be seen as successful. But I would think it would have to have some sales numbers that would put it in the ballpark as its predisessors. As it stands Bluray looks like it is going to fall way short of even VHS. To me that's very dissapointing. Bluray is going down in history as a format that did somewhere between Laserdisc and VHS. I don't see that as successful. Are all the investors in the Black with thier investment in Bluray? If that answer is no I see that as a failure. If the answer is some are I see that as a failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
Haha. That's just it. The bar has been lowered by some of these guys. The goal post moved closer. I doubt thier expectations would be set so low if it were another format we are talking about. Let's be honest here. I also find it hilarious how they ALWAYS knew Bluray would never do as well as DVD. Yet not one quote from a post of theirs saying or proving these past opinions until AFTER they realized it. LMAO!
Yeah...next time before you go insulting people as being the "stupidest" don't give them so much rebuttal ammunition.
bombsnizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #2319  
Hidef Junkie
 
ack_bak's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Doesn't Redbox and Netflix rent BDs? What was the total 2011 BD rental revenue?
Yes, they rent Blu-Ray. If you are willing to pay more money.

Quote:
So BD has all of DVD's bells, lights and whistles along with additional ones like HD PQ, Bonus View and HD Audio, but almost 6 years after it is released, it is only getting 26% of OD sales and a substantially lower % of rental revenue. And the number of titles being released per year is still a fraction of what is released on DVD . . .

But with all that, you still label BD . . . successful.
Again so your definition of success is that Blu-Ray has to surpass DVD within 6 years of it's release?

So that means all other formats before and after are not successful either?

It is the same tired argument and none of us will ever win. You can say Blu-Ray failed and I can say it was a success all day long. We both have different measurements of success.
ack_bak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #2320  
Hidef Junkie
 
ack_bak's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malanthius View Post
Haha. That's just it. The bar has been lowered by some of these guys. The goal post moved closer. I doubt thier expectations would be set so low if it were another format we are talking about. Let's be honest here. I also find it hilarious how they ALWAYS knew Bluray would never do as well as DVD. Yet not one quote from a post of theirs saying or proving these past opinions until AFTER they realized it. LMAO!
So your expectations and goals for something are 100% static and never change. Even when given new information or the environment around you changes?

And where have I ever stated that Blu-Ray would do as well as DVD? I actually invested in HD DVD first and honestly did not know which format was going to win until 2008 when Warner made their announcement. So I would love for you to find a quote from me in 2007 where I claimed that Blu-Ray was going to do better than DVD.
ack_bak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 03:29 PM   #2321  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

I didn't say you were stupid. I said your analogy was stupid. So don't get your panties in a wad. My my someone is little miss sensitive. And I understand what you were "trying" to pass off as an analogy. But let me be nice since your feelings are hurt. It was a poor analogy. You cannot compare a basketball player to a format. Plain and simple. Anyone who makes it to the NBA is a success. Any player that does not is a failure as a professional basketball player. I guess you made my point. Bluray never even made it to the NBA. But it appears DVD=Kobe or MJ. VHS= shaq. Bluray and laserdisc= jack and joe shmoe playing at the college level. Sad they will go down in history as never making it into the NBA.

Oh but what determines a format making into the NBA you say? Well there is the weakness of your analogy. Again, why did I bother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombsnizzle View Post
Let me more clear since clearly this went over your head.

You do know how analogies work right?

X is to Y as A is to B.

Bird is to Nest as Beaver is to Dam.

DVD and Michael Jordan are the most successful. Bluray and any other player are less successful aka "failures".

DVD is to Michael Jordan as bluray is to any other player.

To compare any format to DVD will result in that format being classified as a failure. To compare any player to Michael Jordan will result in that player being classified as a failure, by virtues of the standards/records set by DVD/Jordan, and the unmatched performance of other formats/players.

No quite the opposite. I clearly stated "Every basketball player is a failure compared to Michael Jordan." Because no one has achieved as much. Every format is a failure compared to DVD, since no format has achieved as much. You see the analogy??

No, you do, because you don't understand analogies.

Says the guy that doesn't understand analogies.





Yeah...next time before you go insulting people as being the "stupidest" don't give them so much rebuttal ammunition.
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 03:40 PM   #2322  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
So your expectations and goals for something are 100% static and never change. Even when given new information or the environment around you changes?

And where have I ever stated that Blu-Ray would do as well as DVD? I actually invested in HD DVD first and honestly did not know which format was going to win until 2008 when Warner made their announcement. So I would love for you to find a quote from me in 2007 where I claimed that Blu-Ray was going to do better than DVD.
Show us where you or Kosty or any of the other Bluray fanboys admitted to Blurays poor performance against DVD. Show me where you agreed with guys like Mike, Bruce, Gizmo, myself ect.. That Bluray was not doing well. No you guys disagreed with us constantly on forums like this one. Only now do you admit it. But now you guys want to act like you knew it was going to turn out like this all along. Don't get me wrong Ack. At least you are honest about the situation now. But don't insult us by acting like you were always bearish on Bluray and how it would do against DVD.

Show me quotes where you said DVD was good enough for most people. That's what we were saying. And you were one of those that called us bitter about HDDVD for saying it. Or said that we need to wait. Or said that we didn't know what we were talking about. Or just stayed quiet while others said those things. If you werent with us you were against us. That's the way I see it.
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 04:33 PM   #2323  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
Yes, they rent Blu-Ray. If you are willing to pay more money.
How much more are we talking about? For Redbox it's less then a dollar. For Netflix, not much more. If you use BBi, it's the same as they don't have a BD upcharge.

Quote:
Again so your definition of success is that Blu-Ray has to surpass DVD within 6 years of it's release? So that means all other formats before and after are not successful either?
No - that isn't my definition of success. How about this as a definition of success . . .

To cover the losses that DVD has experienced. Hasn't happened yet has it?

Quote:
It is the same tired argument and none of us will ever win. You can say Blu-Ray failed and I can say it was a success all day long. We both have different measurements of success.
Sure - if you put the "success bar" a few inches above the ground, then it's easy to consider BD a success.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 04:37 PM   #2324  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
So your expectations and goals for something are 100% static and never change. Even when given new information or the environment around you changes?
The issue is - how many times those goals and expectations have to be lessened. Seems like a yearly event huh?
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 05:11 PM   #2325  
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
How much more are we talking about? For Redbox it's less then a dollar. For Netflix, not much more. If you use BBi, it's the same as they don't have a BD upcharge.



No - that isn't my definition of success. How about this as a definition of success . . .

To cover the losses that DVD has experienced. Hasn't happened yet has it?



Sure - if you put the "success bar" a few inches above the ground, then it's easy to consider BD a success.
By that measure then the 1Q 2012 has been a success as so far in the HMM data through 12/13 weeks Blu-ray's growth has fully covered DVDs attrition and OD is actually up 0.7% YoY.
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:44 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands