High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition DVDs & Movies > High Definition Media
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition Media A place to discuss BD and UHD Content from physical and digital media RSS - High Definition Media

Like Tree254Likes

Optical (Blu-ray/DVD) and Digital (EST/UV) Sales Thread

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-20-2012, 06:53 AM   #2011
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
So High Definition TVs replaced Standard Definition TVs but High Definition optical discs were never meant to replace Standard Definition optical discs?
Still a lot of standard definition programming being viewed on standard definition analog TVs and other devices.
__________________
.
"A lot of good arguments are spoiled by some fool who knows what he is talking about." - Miguel de Unamuno

"I understand the concept of optimism. But I think with me what you get is a lack of cynicism." - Tom Hanks

"I don't think you lead by pessimism and cynicism. I think you lead by optimism and enthusiasm and energy." - Patricia Ireland
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 07:05 AM   #2012
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
So please tell the the bottom line cost for ALL the studios for 2011 for:

Restoration of film elements cost (where applicable)
Mastering BDs
Pressing BDs
Packaging BDs
Distribution of BDs

And please - you can skip the bullshit about secondary use for the mastering costs - there isn't another consumer delivery system that requires that kind of quality nor is there a mainstream consumer delivery system that delivers lossless audio.
Well I'm glad Blu-ray is around to help justify the investment in high quality mastering and digital restoration and to help sell thins like Blu-ray 3D to consumers.

I'm not sure if anyone would ever be able to itemize or accurately estimate those other costs for the distribution and manufacturing of Blu-ray or even less profitable DVD.

We can be sure that they are only a fraction of the retail price of a Blu-ray sale. If all and all last year in total they added up so that there were still a $12 margin on a Blu-ray sale then they are still low enough that packaged media is still hugely profitable. I simple fact that we see more and more Blu-ray releases and DVD is still on the market shows its profitable.


__________________
.
"A lot of good arguments are spoiled by some fool who knows what he is talking about." - Miguel de Unamuno

"I understand the concept of optimism. But I think with me what you get is a lack of cynicism." - Tom Hanks

"I don't think you lead by pessimism and cynicism. I think you lead by optimism and enthusiasm and energy." - Patricia Ireland
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 07:22 AM   #2013
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
So High Definition TVs replaced Standard Definition TVs but High Definition optical discs were never meant to replace Standard Definition optical discs?
Unless you can prove those HDTVs are actually viewing HD content instead of SD content all you have really proved is people like flat TVs that weigh less and occupy less space.

HDTV ownership does not guarantee HD viewership.

From 2010:
Quote:
...despite the billions of dollars that Americans have spent buying high definition TVs, more than 80 percent of television viewing is still a standard definition experience.
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/...g-lags-behind/
bombsnizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 08:37 AM   #2014
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 45,880
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
Well I'm glad Blu-ray is around to help justify the investment in high quality mastering and digital restoration and to help sell thins like Blu-ray 3D to consumers.

I'm not sure if anyone would ever be able to itemize or accurately estimate those other costs for the distribution and manufacturing of Blu-ray or even less profitable DVD.

We can be sure that they are only a fraction of the retail price of a Blu-ray sale. If all and all last year in total they added up so that there were still a $12 margin on a Blu-ray sale then they are still low enough that packaged media is still hugely profitable. I simple fact that we see more and more Blu-ray releases and DVD is still on the market shows its profitable.


That chart doesn't show margin - it shows gross sales

And the 2+ billion for 2011 is at retail, not wholesale.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 08:38 AM   #2015
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 45,880
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombsnizzle View Post
Unless you can prove those HDTVs are actually viewing HD content instead of SD content all you have really proved is people like flat TVs that weigh less and occupy less space.

HDTV ownership does not guarantee HD viewership.

From 2010:

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/...g-lags-behind/
Your data is old - anything newer?
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 09:04 AM   #2016
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
GizmoDVD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyDC View Post
If that were true then they would have never made players backwards compatible with DVD.
Huh? They had no choice really. Imagine a word where BD layers only played BD discs. BD would likely be dead and we would be enjoying HD DVD right now.
GizmoDVD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 09:07 AM   #2017
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
GizmoDVD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
Source? Besides the ignoring that Sony shouldered much of that burden and also has the PS3 revenue streams to consider and no one cares what Sony paid as they benefit from Blu-ray sales now.

Also considering that Blu-ray was already around $2.2 Billion in sell through alone last year by DEG and even more with rental income last year and will do even more revenues this year, your statement on Blu-ray peaking at $2 Billion is demonstrably false and argumentative hyperbole. Blu-ray is still growing.

Besides the usual ignoring of the release strength of last year that seems already to be changing and affecting the statitstics this year already.
Source: You apparently require none even though you ramble on about how right you are even when faced with numerous articles saying otherwise. So excuse me while I provide zero sources - just taking a page out of the Book of Kosty.

What we know is Blu-ray barely sold over 2 billion last year and that's with like 1 out of every 2 BDs sold including a DVD inside. Numerous 'BD early, DVD delayed', numerous 'BD in a dvd case SKU' etc. Not to mention that's retail sales. Like Lee pointed out, wholesale prices tell a different story.
GizmoDVD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 09:22 AM   #2018
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

That's the thing with you guys being in denial. Even though I have corrected this before it's again and again. I never said or have said Bluray had to do as well as DVD for me to consider it a success. Kosty, I've corrected you on this several times. But you keep trying to use this defense. Probably because it's the only defense.

I've always said that I would consider Bluray a success if it at least got close to doing what DVD did. Or at least do as well as VHS. As it is it looks quite clear it will do neither. In fact it looks like it will fall way short of even VHS's numbers. This is with a much better product, years later with many more people in the world to sell to.

Oh and Danny? No I fell to the hype from guys like you and Kosty who are always running to the defense of Bluray. Ignoring comon sense. I fell to the hype of all the hype during the format war. How you guys pumped up how you thought people cared about all those pixals and bit rates because they would make all the difference in the world. After all you guys argued it was these minor benifits that Bluray offered over HDDVD that would win the format war. In the end it wasn't that at all. It was all internal deals and a game system that was going to create an unnatural advantage giving skewed numbers that studios bought into. You proved it yourself. You know that just because people buy big HD TVs does not guarantee they will use it for HD. Infact we know the percentage shows people actually buy them for the size of the screen.

It's cute when I see guys like you try to act like this is all completely expected. After the fact...

LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post
I just disagree with the premise.

I get it that to you Blu-ray will always be a failure because its never going to be as successful as DVD nor is it going to replace DVD declines all by itself or that its not going to anytime soon if ever totally replace DVD.

I just think that those are the wrong standards to judge Blu-ray by and it can be considered to be very successful as a profitable mass market mainstream consumer product even if its never going to do what DVD did at its peak or that it will never sustain what DVD revenues were at its peak all by itself. But its a successful new revenue stream that together with other new digital options will be growing and successful in its own right for many years to come. Blu-ray's just not going to replace DVD all by itself.

But Blu-ray is generating a lot of revenues even now that never would have existed if the studios would have taken some of the advice that was given at the time to not even bother about releasing a new next generation DVD format as digital was supposed to have replaced packaged media a long time ago according to some people. That hasn't happened yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyDC View Post
Its the HD replacement to DVD. Yes.
Now if youre asking if it was to achieve the same level of success as DVD. Then Im sorry you fell for all that studio PR talk.
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 11:39 AM   #2019
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Your data is old - anything newer?
Old data is better than no data.

Feel free to contact nielsen and get the 2011 numbers.
bombsnizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 11:40 AM   #2020
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
Huh? They had no choice really. Imagine a word where BD layers only played BD discs. BD would likely be dead and we would be enjoying HD DVD right now.
lol.

You just can't get over it.
bombsnizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 12:15 PM   #2021
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
That chart doesn't show margin - it shows gross sales

And the 2+ billion for 2011 is at retail, not wholesale.
It shows the studio receipts per transaction not average retail sale price.

Unless you think it costs a lot to produce paper and plastic and bulk ship to retailer distribution centers.....
__________________
.
"A lot of good arguments are spoiled by some fool who knows what he is talking about." - Miguel de Unamuno

"I understand the concept of optimism. But I think with me what you get is a lack of cynicism." - Tom Hanks

"I don't think you lead by pessimism and cynicism. I think you lead by optimism and enthusiasm and energy." - Patricia Ireland
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 12:16 PM   #2022
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
That chart doesn't show margin - it shows gross sales

And the 2+ billion for 2011 is at retail, not wholesale.
The DVD sales magnitudes that you are also comparing it too are also retail pricing as well.
__________________
.
"A lot of good arguments are spoiled by some fool who knows what he is talking about." - Miguel de Unamuno

"I understand the concept of optimism. But I think with me what you get is a lack of cynicism." - Tom Hanks

"I don't think you lead by pessimism and cynicism. I think you lead by optimism and enthusiasm and energy." - Patricia Ireland
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #2023
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
Kosty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
Source: You apparently require none even though you ramble on about how right you are even when faced with numerous articles saying otherwise. So excuse me while I provide zero sources - just taking a page out of the Book of Kosty.

What we know is Blu-ray barely sold over 2 billion last year and that's with like 1 out of every 2 BDs sold including a DVD inside. Numerous 'BD early, DVD delayed', numerous 'BD in a dvd case SKU' etc. Not to mention that's retail sales. Like Lee pointed out, wholesale prices tell a different story.
Right. So you can just go one and one without sources to back up your comments and live in your own little world if you want to, I don't mind. On this case Blu-ray as a higher retail priced product also has high wholesale pricing and margin to the studios. Its simply a more profitable sku than a plain DVD version. You can also be in denial that one reason that BD+DVD combo skus are growing in retail is that they are more profitable skus as well that also have growing consumer demand.

DVD is declining while Blu-ray and the other digital alternatives to DVD are also increasing over time as they slowly but surely displace DVD at retail. Blu-ray is a high margin successful product from a retailer and studio perspective as well as a high quality option for consumers no matter how it compares to DVD in isolation.
__________________
.
"A lot of good arguments are spoiled by some fool who knows what he is talking about." - Miguel de Unamuno

"I understand the concept of optimism. But I think with me what you get is a lack of cynicism." - Tom Hanks

"I don't think you lead by pessimism and cynicism. I think you lead by optimism and enthusiasm and energy." - Patricia Ireland
Kosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 12:22 PM   #2024
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
mikemorel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 884
Default

Centris: Blu-ray Player Household Penetration Reaches 26%

Quote:
About one in four homes had a Blu-ray Disc player or capable consumer electronic device in the fourth quarter of 2011, up 47% from the same period in 2010, according to new research.

Horsham, Pa.-based Centris Research disclosed the finding in a quarterly report outlining communication and technology penetration in the home. The Blu-ray data mirrors weekly Home Media Magazine research figures, including that 23% of total disc sales ($36.9 million) revenue came from the high-definition format for the week ended Feb. 25.
Interesting.

Households in the US = 114,235,996.

So 26% of that is 29.7 million blu-ray households.

DEG said at the end of 2011 there was "Blu-ray Disc Playback Devices In Nearly 40 Million Homes".
__________________
Warner Bros, on Ultraviolet - "We recognize that the product is not perfect today,” Mr. Tsujihara said. “We don’t have the luxury of waiting a year until we have everything perfect.”
mikemorel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 12:26 PM   #2025
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Malanthius's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombsnizzle View Post
lol.

You just can't get over it.
What's to get over? He's right. If Bluray were released where it couldn't not play DVDs it would have died a quick death. That's for sure. Because even with being backward compatible, having streaming and the added DVDs in the combo packs it's not doing so hot. Nothing to get over. It's a fact. Bluray continues to struggle to stay in the game. I know it hurts. But it's the truth. Deal with it. It's just a format.
Malanthius is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition DVDs & Movies > High Definition Media
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:03 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands