High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition Viewing Mediums, HDTVs > HDTV Calibration
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

HDTV Calibration Calibration discs, ISF calibration, discuss setting on your HDTV. RSS - ISF Calibration

2 Cal questions on PN58C8000 plasma

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2010, 12:07 PM   #1
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default 2 Cal questions on PN58C8000 plasma

When setting white level with contrast control and 100ire window i'm reading that 30-40ftL is typical for readings to shoot for. I cal'ed mine to ~28.xxx, but there was no way at all I was even coming close to that via ONLY the Contrast control. I tried that at first and all I could achieve was ~16-17ftL. I used a slider that is termed by Samsung as being "Cell Light" to achive the 28.xxx ftL reading and could have gone higher but 28-29ftl seemed plenty bright. I left the Contrast control at the default of "90". My question on this particular unit is being that these 2 controls seem to be somewhat similar in nature how can/does one get close to a proper white level reading with only contrast ?

I have some sort of gamma thing going on and would like to know how I could correct it? Attached is the HCFR gamma graph. Gamma is supposed to hang around 2.2 region all the way thru the entire grayscale I thought? I have included the grayscale numbers for this calibration as well (see attached)... Could this be a problem incurred by improper White-level setting from question 1?

The calibration was done with a Spyder3 meter, ColorHCFR 2.1 colorimeter, and GetGray 1.1 SD cal disk.

please advise, thanks in advance
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gamma.jpg (52.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg grayscale.jpg (21.3 KB, 9 views)
thghgv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2010, 04:19 PM   #2
ISF Calibrator
 
dsskid's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,040
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thghgv View Post
When setting white level with contrast control and 100ire window i'm reading that 30-40ftL is typical for readings to shoot for. I cal'ed mine to ~28.xxx, but there was no way at all I was even coming close to that via ONLY the Contrast control. I tried that at first and all I could achieve was ~16-17ftL. I used a slider that is termed by Samsung as being "Cell Light" to achive the 28.xxx ftL reading and could have gone higher but 28-29ftl seemed plenty bright. I left the Contrast control at the default of "90". My question on this particular unit is being that these 2 controls seem to be somewhat similar in nature how can/does one get close to a proper white level reading with only contrast ?

I have some sort of gamma thing going on and would like to know how I could correct it? Attached is the HCFR gamma graph. Gamma is supposed to hang around 2.2 region all the way thru the entire grayscale I thought? I have included the grayscale numbers for this calibration as well (see attached)... Could this be a problem incurred by improper White-level setting from question 1?

The calibration was done with a Spyder3 meter, ColorHCFR 2.1 colorimeter, and GetGray 1.1 SD cal disk.

please advise, thanks in advance
What settings/mode on the display are you using? Are you using window patterns when calibrating, or full screen? You could have 35 ftls in a window pattern, and then when you measure fullscreen, it will be 16ftls due to APL.
__________________
Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, because they tend to shrink over time.

Professional reviews of displays are an excellent tool, but the final decision should come from using your own eyes.




Living Room - Panasonic TH58PZ700U, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Denon AVR-1911
Man-Cave - Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Pioneer Kuro BDP-320, Denon AVR-591BA, PS3

RIP L2W, PFC5 & Kosty
dsskid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2010, 06:56 PM   #3
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default

using CAL-DAY. When setting levels im using all window patterns.
thghgv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2010, 10:41 PM   #4
ISF Calibrator
 
dsskid's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,040
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thghgv View Post
using CAL-DAY. When setting levels im using all window patterns.
What is the cell light set to? Dynamic Contrast? Gamma?
__________________
Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, because they tend to shrink over time.

Professional reviews of displays are an excellent tool, but the final decision should come from using your own eyes.




Living Room - Panasonic TH58PZ700U, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Denon AVR-1911
Man-Cave - Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Pioneer Kuro BDP-320, Denon AVR-591BA, PS3

RIP L2W, PFC5 & Kosty
dsskid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 09:30 PM   #5
ISF Technician
 
d6500k's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oregon
Age: 65
Posts: 1,725
Default

Quote:
When setting white level with contrast control and 100ire window i'm reading that 30-40ftL is typical for readings to shoot for.
Why?

What is the room environment lighting like for serious viewing?

A typical "theater" screen reflects about 16fl. In a dark room of course.


Your dE and greyscale are better than spec. from the factory so you've done good work there.

I'd suspect, as dsskid is alluding to, that you might want to check all source settings and re align any B/W level controls possible. If you approach any gamma measuring close to a 2.... you have done well with the display.

If the blacks don't crush and the white aren't clipped (shadows are fine and clouds are still fully rendered), you are in possession of a cal'd display.

Doug k
__________________
Serving Oregon and Southmost Texas.
Occasional tours to St. Petersburg/Tampa Fla.

www.6500kcalibrations.com
d6500k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2010, 02:44 PM   #6
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default

hey all thanks for all the info so far. Basically after a number of attempts at just running the cal from the guides and ending up with a bright contrasty display I sat down and just looked at bunch of different content and manually set some initial levels (cel light, contrast and brightness) so that I was getting good brightness level overall and also most importantly good grayscale depth. I ran with those initial settings and did not change them and did a 2-point gray scale cal and then ran a full color cal which looked fine and views great. However when I run looking at the grayscale measurement numbers and graphs the resulting Gamma chart still looks like the one attached. What can cause this and can it be corrected without losing my nice grayscale depth that I have now? Maybe it's the Spyder meter causing the wackiness?

Also after entering service mode once or twice I now notice that the 10 Point white balance doesn't seem to work anymore. I have the menus and sliders but operating the controls doesn't seem do anything to the levels. Is there something I need to do to re-enable this? In service mode all I really did was look around and didn't tweak anything.
I updated the display a few days ago to latest firmware 1030.1 and the 10p Wbal was working at that time. Only after going into and out of the service menu last evening does it now seem flaccid...
Attached Files
File Type: txt settings.txt (684 Bytes, 11 views)
thghgv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2010, 08:23 PM   #7
ISF Technician
 
d6500k's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oregon
Age: 65
Posts: 1,725
Default

http://lists.apple.com/archives/colo.../msg00175.html

Check the above.

Quote:
However when I run looking at the grayscale measurement numbers and graphs the resulting Gamma chart still looks like the one attached. What can cause this and can it be corrected without losing my nice grayscale depth that I have now? Maybe it's the Spyder meter causing the wackiness?
Even with my spectrophotometer, plasma and some LCD displays show inconsistent gamma results. Nature of the beasts compared with CRT tech.

Your results are relatively consistent with other reports using tri-stimulus colorimeters.

I'm not able to answer why your user side wb controls are dead. Personally I'd try a "reset to factory" operation, then make sure you are in a mode that accepts wb control.

Otherwise, you could center all controls in user and perform the calibration in service, thus allowing for minor adjustments in user from "standardized" settings confirmed in the service menu. I do not advocate this approach unless you are well read on the intricacies of your service menu controls and what each parameter can/cannot do. Sammy's service menus thwarted many an aspiring ISF tech, which in many cases left them running and screaming from the building. On the other hand, with study and persistence, Samsung displays can deliver fine results.

Again, and with the codicil of "ya better be careful in there", check the display readings when reset to factory fresh. If the user controls for wb are grayed-out, something has gone askew and it may be time for better data than I can provide.

Doug k
__________________
Serving Oregon and Southmost Texas.
Occasional tours to St. Petersburg/Tampa Fla.

www.6500kcalibrations.com
d6500k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2010, 01:36 PM   #8
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default

Interesting, so you have seen this before in the field even with your test setup then?

I wasn't aware that it was possible to cal the display from the service mode panels. I looked around in there a bit and saw quite a lot of "stuff" but didn't really see anything that resembled calibration settings, at least to my eye.

As to the 10p WB menu. I have done the factory reset thing once or twice and on all occasions all the same menus, controls etc, are present, before and after. Just that when using the 10p WB against the cal slides I'm not getting any RGB reading response when tweaking the controls anymore for all the points. I have just turned it off at this point and have relegated to doing the 2 point balance only which seems adequate nonetheless.
thghgv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2010, 03:09 PM   #9
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default

Ok here's something I found that I'll run by you all. My DVD player is set to "FULL RANGE RGB" as opposed to "RGB". My GetGray test disk is Standard Def DVD. ColorHCFR I have set to REC601 (SD colorspace). Could this be what is messing with the Gamma graph?

Given that my player can go either way "FULL RANGE RGB" or "RGB" is that the equivalent of REC709 as opposed to REC601??

As well, when I cal using the GetGray 1.1 disk with this player and HCFR what color space setting should I be using in HCFR? Could the wrong color space setting in HCFR cause the Gamma graph wackiness that I have been seeing?
thghgv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2010, 02:44 PM   #10
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default Final 58C8000 settings

It seems that the DVD players color space settings makes a large difference on what this display renders with reference to gray-scale depth. I set the player to "RGB" space and did a cal with the GetGray SD cal disk. I was able to get a much better looking gamma graph this time. Overall gamma clocked in at around 2.19. I did another total factory reset from SVC menu and magically the 10p White bal works again. DVD content is stunning now that everything is set correctly. I transferred these same settings to the Sat STB, which is currently the only source of true HD content I have at the moment and it's totally brilliant. I'm still not sure if that DVD player setting of what appears to be color space, i.e. "FULL RANGE RGB", or "RGB" are in fact really color space settings REC709 and REC601 respectively. If true, Im at a loss to figure out why Pioneer would opt to put a HD color space setting on a device that plays standard def source material? All I know is, on this display using this player (it's a SD pioneer elite model) the "RGB" setting is what should be used to get proper looking video. Using the FULL RANGE RGB drops all the gray-scale depth and video level thru the floor. Anyone else ever experienced this before?
Attached Files
File Type: txt PN58C8000 Proper Settings.txt (913 Bytes, 19 views)

Last edited by thghgv; 11-24-2010 at 03:03 PM..
thghgv is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition Viewing Mediums, HDTVs > HDTV Calibration
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:45 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2004 - 2008, High Def Forum