High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition Hardware > HD DVD Players and Discs
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

HD DVD Players and Discs A place to discuss HD DVD players, movies and anything else relating to the HD DVD format

Scenario of how HD DVD wins format war quickly!

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-04-2007, 01:48 PM   #121
Former Super Moderator - RIP
 
PFC5's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mass
Posts: 38,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
Yeah- I know that natural forces will help the studios decide which direction to go in. I wasn't really looking at it from a market standpoint- just a Strawberry standpoint. And let me tell you- Strawberry hates 'em.

Also- (and this obviously doesn't apply to Universal, since they're a one-format studio) I hate to say it, but I'd be just as interested to know the effects that combos are having on dual-format releases. In my case- when a release hits both formats, and the HD DVD version costs more because of this combo business, (The Departed, Happy Feet, The Fountain, etc.) I'm buying Blu-Ray and saving myself the money in instances where I otherwise might not. I know that BR version of The Departed outsold the HD DVD version almost 2:1 after release- I'd be curious to know if those numbers would have been different if the prices had been the same...
But does Chocolate & Vanilla like them?

Sorry. I couldn't resist.
__________________
Denon AVR-887
Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs)
All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr)
Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35
For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841
Panny 50pz80u plasma
SETTINGS
RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+
SA 3250HD
47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom)
Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support)
Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers
The_Cable_Game
Take the high ground and be happier
PSN: PFC5
PFC5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 02:07 PM   #122
HD is the Lord.
 
strawberry's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 1,635
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFC5 View Post
But does Chocolate & Vanilla like them?

Sorry. I couldn't resist.


Not funny.







Well, OK- it's kinda funny.
__________________

Home Theater Setup
ISF-Calibrated Hitachi 57S500 HDTV
Denon 2807 AVR
7.1 JBL Venue Series Speaker System
Toshiba HD-A1
PS3 60 Gig
Xbox 360 Premium
Moxi BMC 9022 DVR
Logitech Harmony 880
strawberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 02:13 PM   #123
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA
Age: 46
Posts: 679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by unotis View Post
Well written.

In your second paragraph, this scenerio does not say that SD DVD will just totally go away but, that giving them both for the price of one will facillitate the transition.

The HD DVD side would give the consumer the easiest way to do this and bonus of future HD DVD viewing without having to just toss all their already purchased SD DVDs.

Especially when they do purchase a HD DVD player to go with their new HDTV purchase.

HD DVD viewing will happen (no dispute there) but, with this scenerio it will be the HD DVD camp that will provide it the best and least cost to the consumer.

Again, a WIN, WIN SITUATION!
Actually, it is a win/win/lose scenario, and the one that holds the cards is the loser. If movie studios were to release combo disks at the current price that they are releasing SD DVD, here is how each camp would view it:

1. Consumer: Win. They get something for nothing, so they would like that.
2. HD-DVD (i.e. Toshiba) - Win. More HD-DVDs are in customer's hands, and that may cause them to buy HD-DVD instead of BR.
3. Studios: Lose. They make more money selling DVD and HD-DVD separately.

Until the Studios can make money giving away the HD-DVD version for free, they are going to continue to price combo disks for more than standard DVD, regardless of the replication costs.
fryet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 02:22 PM   #124
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA
Age: 46
Posts: 679
Default

The only way I can see combo disks surviving long term is if studios release combo disks as well as SD and HD only disks. Any other way, and they end up losing money. I doubt they are going to want to do that (getting shelf space for all 3 is more difficult), so they will probably stop releasing the combo disks.
fryet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 02:42 PM   #125
UNOTIS
 
unotis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: FLORIDA
Age: 62
Posts: 4,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryet View Post
Actually, it is a win/win/lose scenario, and the one that holds the cards is the loser. If movie studios were to release combo disks at the current price that they are releasing SD DVD, here is how each camp would view it:

1. Consumer: Win. They get something for nothing, so they would like that.
2. HD-DVD (i.e. Toshiba) - Win. More HD-DVDs are in customer's hands, and that may cause them to buy HD-DVD instead of BR.
3. Studios: Lose. They make more money selling DVD and HD-DVD separately.

Until the Studios can make money giving away the HD-DVD version for free, they are going to continue to price combo disks for more than standard DVD, regardless of the replication costs.
Here is how it should be viewed:

1. Consumer: Win, they get something for nothing, they and they could transition effortlessly into HD DVD.

2. HD DVD (i.e. Toshiba): Win, more HD DVDs are in consumer's hands and it WILL cause the consumer to choose HD DVD over BR.

3. Studios: Win, they end the format war, consolidate the format to HD DVD, cut costs by producing only one version of all new releases, increase market share and eventually have the entire market when the consumer has adopted one HD format, they then can reap the profits of the World wide combined DVD format and cease production of SD and combo DVDs from then on.

All they have to do is forgo some minor profits for a short time inorder to gain HUGE profits when they've won!

WIN, WIN, WIN SCENARIO!

Last edited by unotis; 04-04-2007 at 02:53 PM..
unotis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 02:51 PM   #126
UNOTIS
 
unotis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: FLORIDA
Age: 62
Posts: 4,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryet View Post
The only way I can see combo disks surviving long term is if studios release combo disks as well as SD and HD only disks. Any other way, and they end up losing money. I doubt they are going to want to do that (getting shelf space for all 3 is more difficult), so they will probably stop releasing the combo disks.
If they released the combo discs instead they would triple their shelf space/availablity and they would save money by advertising/stocking/shipping only one format/version of each movie.

Wow, maybe this could make up for some of the lost profit from lowering the cost of the combo to be the same as the SD DVD!

Last edited by unotis; 04-04-2007 at 02:55 PM..
unotis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 02:52 PM   #127
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
Chris Gerhard's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,945
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
Just like the FUD you are spreading (and Bill Hunt) that this format war must be resolved quickly or neither will win.
Of course the normal reponse I have to deal with, change what I say and attack that. I have never said the war must be resolved quickly. I have said in my opinion the hobby is better served by one format and HD DVD can not win quickly. I have never spread FUD about what would happen if HD DVD could win quickly. I believe if HD DVD did win quickly, the players and software would be of very high quality. I believe if Blu-ray wins quickly, the players and software will be of very high quality. I have stated what I believe happens if Blu-ray doesn't win quickly, both survive and profits are slim and software selection suffers. You can search my posts for what I have actually said in detail if you are interested. It is clear all any of want to do with my posts are attack me since you can't intelligently dispute my opinions and what I would like to see happen and the reasons I want to see it.

Sorry guys, I am fed up with this and will move to my other audio/video forum interests and let you have this issue all to yourselves. My last post on the format war has been entered. I have a queue with Universal HD DVD's and Blu-ray discs and will watch that so-so selection of movies, but continue to hope that the format war can end quickly and things can get much better quickly. I would even be happy if I was wrong and HD DVD could win quickly and did, the format works great. I am able to be impartial in how I analyze a situation and you will all know in a few years when Blu-ray is still around that I was right and HD DVD couldn't win quickly.

Chris
__________________
Den - TiVoHD OTA Lifetime/1.16TB, Sony NSZ-GS7, Sony NSZ-GT1, Sony PS3, Oppo DV980H, Roku 2XS, Chromecast
MBR - TiVoHD OTA Lifetime/660GB, Oppo BDP-80, LG BD590, Toshiba HD-A30, Sony NSZ-GT1, Roku 2 XS
Home Theater - TiVo Premiere OTA Lifetime/2TB, LG BH200, PS3, Sony NSZ-GT1, Roku LT
Household via PlayOn/PlayLater/Plex - Alienware M15x Intel i7-740QM
Chris Gerhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 02:54 PM   #128
HD is the Lord.
 
strawberry's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 1,635
Default

Wow- they're dropping like flies these days, guys...
__________________

Home Theater Setup
ISF-Calibrated Hitachi 57S500 HDTV
Denon 2807 AVR
7.1 JBL Venue Series Speaker System
Toshiba HD-A1
PS3 60 Gig
Xbox 360 Premium
Moxi BMC 9022 DVR
Logitech Harmony 880
strawberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 02:59 PM   #129
UNOTIS
 
unotis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: FLORIDA
Age: 62
Posts: 4,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
Wow- they're dropping like flies these days, guys...
It is too bad because he was a fun fly to swat at every once and awhile.

He actually posted some very good, well thought out opinions, he just couldn't acknowledge that somone else had proven or put forward a good opposite view of his (it was his way or the highway insofar as HD DVD vs Blu-ray debate).

He said he was open minded and didn't have a preference on which format should win but, it seemed plain that it had to be Blu-Ray for the good of all consumers in his opinion (I wish I was incorrect in thinking this).

And let's be truthful, if you read his other posts outside this particular area (HD DVD vs Blu-ray) he was a great addition to the forum and helped several people that needed help on various topics.

I'll miss him, it was only on this particular subject that any friction came between us and I started this thread because he asked for it (maybe I should have ignored his constant requests and not started it).

Last edited by unotis; 04-04-2007 at 03:24 PM..
unotis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 03:20 PM   #130
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 44,166
Default

1. For those who "challange" the 1 out of 5 PS3's hooked up to an HDTV "fact" . . . then please explain the attach rate of BD. You can't have it both ways.

2. For these Win/Lose scenerios. Do you really think Sony with their 3 million PS3's is going to stop producing BD's? Eventually all the owners of PS3's are going to buy an HDTV. I clearly see the importance of Sony's marketing plan wit regards to the PS3. If no HDTV in home - good chance if there's a audio/video receiver in the house - it's a Sony. So now the home has 2 Sony products and it's time to get an HDTV. If the onwer knows NOTHING about HDTV other than it is better than what he is looking at by a mile - who do you think is the first brand he will look at when he goes shopping?

The "war" in the FPD marketplace has about 40 compaies fighting for sales and profits in a market that can really only support 20 companies. This is a fight to the death - the death of a company

3. What happens to those studios that are part of the BDA? If they start producing HD DVD's, they will have to pay Licensing snd Royalty Fees to the HD DVD Forum. Just like WB and Paramount do for their BD movies. Now they get a piece of the L & R "pie." Going to HD DVD, they will lose that piece (assuming HD DVD wins the war) and pay out an additional piece.

4. Joe Average , the consumer, cares about one thing and one thing only - the price. Pssst - who's the #1 retailer in the USA?

5. There are over 120 million SD DVD players in the USA (fact from The Digital Bits). Replaceing these with HD Disc players will be a daunting task that can only be done with a price point player that matches the DVD player - $99 or less. We are at least a year and a half if not two and half years away from this price point.

For this reason and for this reason only (#5) IMO the HD DVD combo "designed to end the format war" scenerio is just too premature. But a year from now . . . maybe.

And as we all agree (or almost all - and YOU know who you are) that there will be no winner in the format war in 2007, nor probably in 2008. . . .

The format war threads will keep being created.

Last edited by Lee Stewart; 04-04-2007 at 03:43 PM..
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 03:25 PM   #131
Super Moderator
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 17,083
Default

Come on Chris, it doesn't have to be like that. I don't want you to stop posting, so whenever you cease being fed up with us HD DVD guys then you're welcome back by me anyway.

Last edited by bruceames; 04-04-2007 at 03:28 PM..
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 03:40 PM   #132
UNOTIS
 
unotis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: FLORIDA
Age: 62
Posts: 4,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
1. For those who "challange" the 1 out of 5 PS3's hooked up to an HDTV "fact" . . . then please explain the attach rate of BD. You can't have it both ways.

2. For these Win/Lose scenerios. Do you really think Sony with their 3 million PS3's is going to stop producing BD's? Eventually all the owners of PS3's are going to buy an HDTV.

3. What happens to those studios that are part of the BDA? If they start producing HD DVD's, they will have to pay Licensing snd Royalty Fees to the HD DVD Forum. Just like WB and Paramount do for their BD movies. Now they get a piece of the L & R "pie." Going to HD DVD, they will lose that piece (assuming HD DVD wins the war) and pay out an additional piece.

4. Joe Average , the consumer, cares about one thing and one thing only - the price. Pssst - who's the #1 retailer in the USA?

5. There are over 120 million SD DVD players in the USA (fact from The Digital Bits). Replaceing these with HD Disc players will be a daunting task that can only be done with a price point player that matches the DVD player - $99 or less. We are at least a year and a half if not two and half years away from this price point.

For this reason and for this reason only (#5) IMO the HD DVD combo "designed to end the format war" scenerio is just too premature. But a year from now . . . maybe.

And as we all agree (or almost all - and YOU know who you are) that there will be no winner in the format war in 2007, nor probably in 2008. . . .

The format war threads will keep being created.
I actually agree with you, even the part about the format war not ending this year.

I only started this thread because Chris goaded me into it with his repeated requests for someone to give him a way HD DVD could win the format war quickly.

I thought this scenerio is possible but I didn't ever really think it could happen this year, perhaps it could be a roadmap to victory in the future (next year?) but even that might be a stretch.

I'm very flexible and will go where the format leads me, who knows maybe Blu-Ray and Sony will change enough where I will go with them (you cannot ever tell about the future).
unotis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 03:46 PM   #133
UNOTIS
 
unotis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: FLORIDA
Age: 62
Posts: 4,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
Come on Chris, it doesn't have to be like that. I don't want you to stop posting, so whenever you cease being fed up with us HD DVD guys then you're welcome back by me anyway.
Yes, Chris, ignore the HD DVD vs Blu-ray sections and keep posting in the rest of the forum because I really think you help make the forum better.

I promise to never try to get your goat again when I disagree with you on which format has the better of winning,
HD DVD or Blu-Ray.
unotis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 04:08 PM   #134
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 44,166
Default

I thought I might like to change the subject of the thread, once again to discuss a "secret weapon" that Sony is preparing to blast the competition with, in both the HD Disc market and the FPD market.

Sony is aggressively pursuing one of their next marketing success's. "TRUE 1080P" worked very well. It forced the PDP manufacturers to go to 1080P whether they wanted to or not. . . .Sony doesn't sell PDP's - only LCD's.

Sony is adding HDMI 1.3 to their LCD's. The PS3 is already 1.3 equipped.

The "big deal" about 1.3 is the addition of Deep Color which is a way to fix the color resolution of the original HDTV spec's done back in the early 1990's.

Any TV that can process color at between 32 Bit and 48 bit can be called a Deep Color HDTV. If the words banding and false countouring and halo's and "ringing" ring a bell (no pun intended) these will all go away with the addition of Deep Color.

Deep Color requires a special signal to be part of the total signal of the HD bit stream. Doesn't exist at the moment. But it can and it may, about a year and a half from today, Sony can "drop the bomb."

They have already renamed the Deep Color upgrade to something their marketing guys dreamed up. I will look for the exact name if someone doesn't help me and post it.

http://www.hdmi.org/pdf/HDMI_Insert_FINAL_8-30-06.pdf

THE BOMB:

"July 1, 2008, Sony Announces the addition of (Deep Color) to the BD platform. Hearalded as the biggest improvement made to HDTV, since the creation of HDTV. BD owners with the corresponding HDTV's can now enjoy HDTV like it has never been seen before."

"The colors are stunning! No More Banding!"

"Once again Sony leads the way in both the BD and HDTV marketplaces."


OK guys. . . as an HD DVD supporter . . .how are we going to win the war again?

Last edited by Lee Stewart; 04-04-2007 at 04:15 PM..
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 04:27 PM   #135
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 44,166
Default

Oh as far as Chris?

I do hope that he remains an active member here at HDF. I have read many of his posts in the other categorys and again, I see that he does help people. This aspect, to me, is the greatest foundation that the HDF could be built on.

HDF is like any entity - it either grows or it dies.

It isn't going to grow as a "hotbed" of format wars discussions . . . it will grow because peope will come here for help and when they receive it, as Chris does, some will stay and they too will become active members.

So Chris . . From Lee:

I do hope that you remain here at HDF. You are a valuable member and you provide a helping hand. Please continue to do so. Many have benefited from your assistance.

And as has been suggested, maybe the format war posts and threads, should be avoided.You can always lurk!
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition Hardware > HD DVD Players and Discs
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads to Scenario of how HD DVD wins format war quickly!
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bill Hunt Is At It Again! Lee Stewart High Definition Media 190 04-08-2007 09:36 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2004 - 2008, High Def Forum