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SHOSHOSHO 12-11-2007 11:05 PM

Microsoft 360 Reliability Inquiry
 
Well I have my second ring of death which would out me at about one 360 per year since first purchased.

I contacted 1-800-4my-xbox and received little help other than the fact that I would receive a refurbished model in 3-4 weeks. Now I just spent $280 for rock band to entertain family and guests during the holidays. Does it not seem reasonable to expect more than a years worth of operation from a $399 console based on past performance from similar hardware.

Microsoft has a design and/or engineering flaw(s). We, the consumer, should not be subject to their terms as supporters and continued contributors of their 360 systems. I used to buy IBM PC's back in the day because any failure resulted in an overnight shipment with return label. We as 360 supporters on the other hand are treated as though Microsoft is doing us a favor by replacing a unit within a MONTH even though the 360 has been notorius from the beginning for the ring of death.

I do not hear many stories nor do I see many posts about the Plastation 3 having similar problems. So why is it that we should be greeted by individuals that speak poor english and who can say nothing other than "Im sorry sir but that is the best I can do".

The public relations agency in Seattle is Edelman Seattle
(206) 223-1606. We should start here and move on. Anyone who is tired of being treated like dirt should call the agency. Spread the word to other sites. I will get specific contact information within Micrisoft and will share them (legally) as obtained on this thread.

I am a huge Microsoft and 360 suporter buth this treatment has got to stop. If it was a Ford there would be a recall. Microsoft has been knowingly selling defective unitis since the 360's inception. If any wants to join this battle then chime in. I'm sick of trading my spent 360's at gamestop for $250 credits on new units.

Heck sony even fessed up when ther was a known problem with the blue gun in their old CRT RPTV's in '02 or '03 and offered free in home service. I had mine repairds within three days.

Some one has got to speak up abou this abuse. I actually now feel bad for the ps3's lack of success given it's pristine operational level.

Why the heck doesn't Sony work on the game line up and on-line experience. I am ready for a change.

Steve44 12-11-2007 11:23 PM

[QUOTE=SHOSHOSHO;446464]
I do not hear many stories nor do I see many posts about the Plastation 3 having similar problems.

Some one has got to speak up abou this abuse. I actually now feel bad for the ps3's lack of success given it's pristine operational level.

Why the heck doesn't Sony work on the game line up and on-line experience. I am ready for a change.[/
QUOTE]




You're correct on that one

Good luck

They are...they're a year behind your expectations unfortunately. Sony's PS3 will come around (I hope and expect).

BUT don't worry, I hear that after your third broken 360 you can get a new one for free!! :huh

bboncorr 12-11-2007 11:46 PM

i would be pissed also. fortunetly i had my console since launch year and never had an issue.

but please don't speak of sony being the great "we got our consumers back company" because that's simply not true. how easily everyone forgets how bad the ps2 was and how long it took sony to do anything about it. then when sony finally did somthing it took the lawsuit all the way through court and settled just before the trial was to start. then sony's accepted offer was $50 or one of two free games that sony choose. then there is the XBR1 lawsuit going on right now, sony's laptop batteries being recalled because they were setting fire to homes, also camcorders, cameras, and a dissapearing act with the psx.

but the ps3 has had a good track record so far, although i'm on my 3rd ps3 due to over heating issues also best buy, circuit city, walmart, and other major retail companies have gone out of the way to print and post signs that state specificly "Due to the high rate of returns and malfunctions customers returning the ps3 need to contact sony" which is then followed by a sony customer support number. i will get a picture of that sign when i go back to best buy hopefully this week. i noticed this sign was put out a few months after launch but it is still up and updated as of this past weekend (when i cashed in my 360 PSP before it ran out). so i decided to ask the girl working behind the counter only to get a "i don't know, i'm just seasonal", but the gaming section kid happened to be standing by still since he helped me carry a few thing back to the customer service counter. he stated the ps3 does have issues and he is surprised it's not getting as much press but he also stated it is still not close to the issues he saw with the 360.

as for the whole outsourced customer service thing, Welcome to the new world of customer service. i went through the exact same thing when dealing with sony playstation, sony electronics, and HP (if you think MS is bad then you should try calling HP support. i had a csr tell me i needed to reformat my HDD because my dvd drive was broken, if you know anything about pc's you must be laughing your azz off right now). i don't think anyone likes to deal with those jackoffs who know less then it's customers and their supposed to be the last line of support.

Steve44 12-12-2007 10:15 AM

wow, BB you're on your third PS3? I thought you didn't play your PS3 much? What games do you play? What else do you use it for? Just curious since you're a 360 owner as well (and you use your 360 more).

I've been in quite a few PS3 forums and haven't heard much about broken PS3's. Obviously it's not a true recognition of the population but I really haven't heard much at all. I've got my PS3 on a open shelf wihout anything around it...who knows if that makes a difference.

SHOSHOSHO 12-12-2007 10:27 AM

I had a PS2 since the day it came out and just got rid of it about a year ana half ago. It's still being used by a 12 year old to this day. Now I know that every 360 was not bad, but the instance of breakdowns is without a doubt higher than other units.

I spoke to my eb Games/Gamestop guy and he said that they are getting about 12 360's a month back. He also stated that the last PS3 return was three months ago. I think it's pretty much common knowledge that the 360 has problems.

As far as the PS3 signs, I think that is a bit of exageration. I have not seen one in BB,CC, Gamestop or any other retailer. You are the first person I have heard this from.

I love the 360 and think it is a great performing machine. I would have included that it is a great value as well but when you basically have to purchase an extended warranty and deal with returns and stores that don't let you do hard drive swaps then the value curve starts to turn to the PS3. Just having to say that you better buy a warranty becuase you know this thing is going to break is just not acceptable. And the two year warranty seems to be the way to go from what I hear because you can go through 2 to 4 of the within that time.

And then there's Microsoft who's answer is a warranty extension of three years. Well that pretty much seems to be an acknowledgement that they are producing faulty counsols. And on top of it wait a month for a refurb or fixed unit that still comes from the same faulty lot. My latest unit was manufactured 9/07. Don't you think they would have the kinks worked out by then?

Why do they do this, because they can. They know they have better games and a better live system and they know very few people are going to go PS3. I think the PS3 has lost the war and Microsoft knows this. Therefore they are basically showing the same type of arrogance that has been blamed on Sony in other places around here. And to add insult to injury; the last time I called for support there was a 7 day turn around. Now they are stating a 30 day turn around. Gee thanks Microsoft.

Bottom line is, why should we have to wait, or be forced into a warranty when they refuse to spend the money to fix a faulty product.

As stated before. I will get contact numbers in Redmond and post them. They need to do more about this. Only other option is a class action lawsuit.

jquick77 12-12-2007 10:56 AM

Quote:

Well I have my second ring of death which would out me at about one 360 per year since first purchased.

I contacted 1-800-4my-xbox and received little help other than the fact that I would receive a refurbished model in 3-4 weeks. Now I just spent $280 for rock band to entertain family and guests during the holidays. Does it not seem reasonable to expect more than a years worth of operation from a $399 console based on past performance from similar hardware.
I just got my 360 back from the RROD issue a couple of months ago. It took 2 weeks and 6 days from the time I called to get it back, so that was pretty good. With it being so close to the holidays, I felt lucky that it happened when it did. We have bought several games for the holiday's and to have the console take a crap right around the 25th would really suck. Open your new games for Christmas, and not being able to play them doesn't seem very fair.
I think that MS should ship you a refurb console as soon as you call. Then you would only be without for around 3 days. Especially if it is the second time that it has happened. Me personally, if I get the old RROD again, I will look into trading or selling the 360 and going with a PS3. I love my Xbox, but if it is out at the shop, you can't play it. Plus what happens when it takes a crap after 3 years. $399 is a lot of dough.

KEEBS1984 12-12-2007 11:03 AM

Why don't people understand recalls? Do you guys seriously not get it?

Microsoft has admitted there was a problem with their machine and spent upwards of $1 billion to help remedy that situation by providing three (3) years of warranty service for your Xbox 360 (Sony and Nintendo give you 90 days). Why didn't they recall? Because recall's are typically used when an item could be potentially dangerous and the last time I checked, nobody has died from the RRoD.

I am seriously confused about how you feel "abused". Did Microsoft go over to your house and beat you or molest you? What the hell do you want Microsoft to do? They have already added another heatsink and put in a smaller CPU for free. . . will it work? Nobody knows yet as far as I can tell.

I understand people get angry because their machines stop working on em, and I fully believe people should stand up to corporations who abuse them and tell them to fuck-off. These kinds of corporations should be shut down. Microsoft, however, is not one of those corporations. If your system breaks, they don't tell you to shove-off, they send you a box and you send them your Xbox, you wait a couple-3 weeks, and then you get a brand new Xbox (I got a new one). Its a harmless process, and all you have to do it wait a few weeks. You'll live through it, I promise.

P.S. How did you spend $280 on Rock Band. The whole thing is only $180, and you can't buy any accessories short of a GHII 360 guitar for $60. . .

bboncorr 12-12-2007 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOSHOSHO (Post 446827)
I had a PS2 since the day it came out and just got rid of it about a year ana half ago. It's still being used by a 12 year old to this day. Now I know that every 360 was not bad, but the instance of breakdowns is without a doubt higher than other units.

I spoke to my eb Games/Gamestop guy and he said that they are getting about 12 360's a month back. He also stated that the last PS3 return was three months ago. I think it's pretty much common knowledge that the 360 has problems.

As far as the PS3 signs, I think that is a bit of exageration. I have not seen one in BB,CC, Gamestop or any other retailer. You are the first person I have heard this from.

I love the 360 and think it is a great performing machine. I would have included that it is a great value as well but when you basically have to purchase an extended warranty and deal with returns and stores that don't let you do hard drive swaps then the value curve starts to turn to the PS3. Just having to say that you better buy a warranty becuase you know this thing is going to break is just not acceptable. And the two year warranty seems to be the way to go from what I hear because you can go through 2 to 4 of the within that time.

And then there's Microsoft who's answer is a warranty extension of three years. Well that pretty much seems to be an acknowledgement that they are producing faulty counsols. And on top of it wait a month for a refurb or fixed unit that still comes from the same faulty lot. My latest unit was manufactured 9/07. Don't you think they would have the kinks worked out by then?

Why do they do this, because they can. They know they have better games and a better live system and they know very few people are going to go PS3. I think the PS3 has lost the war and Microsoft knows this. Therefore they are basically showing the same type of arrogance that has been blamed on Sony in other places around here. And to add insult to injury; the last time I called for support there was a 7 day turn around. Now they are stating a 30 day turn around. Gee thanks Microsoft.

Bottom line is, why should we have to wait, or be forced into a warranty when they refuse to spend the money to fix a faulty product.

As stated before. I will get contact numbers in Redmond and post them. They need to do more about this. Only other option is a class action lawsuit.

sound to me your mind is already made up. i hope you realize your class action will only net you a few bucks and be hard to even win since MS has already lost so much in free extended warranties. How old are you because it sounds like you have never dealt of a product that had issues. any MS, sony, hd, jvc, toshiba, ect.... it doesn't matter which one will take a while to fix the problem. for instance i had a broken Sony XBR1 from July or last year until 2 months ago. please go to that other forum which this forum is now sencoring and check the sony owner forum and see the insane ammount of time which people are waiting for repairs. hell the laptop i'm typing on right now is broken (faulty design is leading to random freezing). HP's response was it will take about 1 month total to get my laptop back. so for the time being im keeping my laptop. a few years ago i had a jvc tv ?(32" SD) break down and it took over 6 months to have them fix it and that was just because JVC could not make a decision on what the next step would be. seems easy to me it's broken send someone to fix it.

i had a toshiba HDTV break (faulty tube) it took them 2 months to have it fixed. you can't expect a company to have somthing fixed over night esp. one that is being sold in such large numbers.

and yes the sign does exist at best buy, it sits right at the customer service section at every resister and this isn't the first mention of it. instead of jumping to conslusions why not just wait for me to post a picture of the dam sign because now you sounding like a person who is responding out of anger. and yes the ps2 was the most faulty console ever made. not only did it have the "disk read error" but also after the redesign the power pack ended up with a recall a long time after the problem was clearly there. i will put it this way sony made it so freaking hard to get a refund because you needed to provide reciepts. look how long after the ps2 lauch happened to when the lawsuit settled and think how many people had that dam reciept.

http://video-games.elliottback.com/2...s-ps2-lawsuit/

http://www.geocities.com/techboi88/


http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12882

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6824.cfm

http://www.cnet.com.au/games/ps2/0,2...0056980,00.htm


steve you must have forgotten my ps3 broke less then a month after buying it. you guys questioned if i even owned one and i could not prove it until i got it back. i don't use my ps3 to much but i do use it a few times a week and it still broke twice. the stand i have my ps3 and 360 on give both systems plenty of air all around it. remember i made that thread about the ps3 having a faulty power switch and you guys responded by calling me a lier only to have other responses saying they had the same exact issue but they didn't know the cause. when my first one broke i might have played it 8-10 hours total (but it has been a while so my math could be off a little), then my second one broke within 5 minutes of starting it up.

games i own,

tiger woods 08 and 07, drakes fortune, war hawk, oblivian, ninja gaiden, heavanly sword, and i sold resistance fall of man.


shoshosho,

if you that pissed then go join the class action and when it settles i'm sure you will be more happy with a $50 gift card if it even settles. remember MS is already losing so much money and has reported this fact through the national media and that's the reason no lawyer is bothering to go at MS. you can only expect a company to lose so much before it becomes sketchy for a jude to be in the consumers favor. if we are talking 50% of the products are failing and ms won't budge then yes the class action would pass easily but that's just not the case.

just for the sake of it try throwing a purple disk in that 12 year old ps2 and see how it works. just curious since the problem was caused by sony not testing the ps2 for the weight of those purple disks. the ps2 problems was not like the ms problems. it wasn't 20,30, or even 50%, it was a complete design flaw and effected almost every ps2 according to sony's own numbers which made its way into the lawyers hands who settled the case. that's why it settled as soon as the judge agreed that the lawsuit was valid and the discovery phase was over.

Steve44 12-12-2007 11:19 AM

[QUOTE=KEEBS1984;446907]If your system breaks, they don't tell you to shove-off, they send you a box and you send them your Xbox, you wait a couple-3 weeks, and then you get a brand new Xbox (I got a new one). Its a harmless process, and all you have to do it wait a few weeks. You'll live through it, I promise.
QUOTE]

I understand it to be they send you someone else's broken 360 that they fixed. Then after the third broken 360 that you own, then they send you a new one. Unless you're special or lucky, this is what I'm hearing from the 360 owners.

bboncorr 12-12-2007 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEEBS1984 (Post 446907)
Why don't people understand recalls? Do you guys seriously not get it?

Microsoft has admitted there was a problem with their machine and spent upwards of $1 billion to help remedy that situation by providing three (3) years of warranty service for your Xbox 360 (Sony and Nintendo give you 90 days). Why didn't they recall? Because recall's are typically used when an item could be potentially dangerous and the last time I checked, nobody has died from the RRoD.

I am seriously confused about how you feel "abused". Did Microsoft go over to your house and beat you or molest you? What the hell do you want Microsoft to do? They have already added another heatsink and put in a smaller CPU for free. . . will it work? Nobody knows yet as far as I can tell.

I understand people get angry because their machines stop working on em, and I fully believe people should stand up to corporations who abuse them and tell them to fuck-off. These kinds of corporations should be shut down. Microsoft, however, is not one of those corporations. If your system breaks, they don't tell you to shove-off, they send you a box and you send them your Xbox, you wait a couple-3 weeks, and then you get a brand new Xbox (I got a new one). Its a harmless process, and all you have to do it wait a few weeks. You'll live through it, I promise.

P.S. How did you spend $280 on Rock Band. The whole thing is only $180, and you can't buy any accessories short of a GHII 360 guitar for $60. . .

i know i believe we are dealing with a young kid who never dealt with a broken product before. you have to pull teath to have sony fix a broken tv. his 360 broke at the worst time because it's the holiday season and mail slows down everywhere in the US and there is nothing MS or any other company can do about that. he wants his console replaced yesterday and that's just not going to happen. remember this is a gaming section and most of the people here just don't have the life experience to understand how these type of issues get worked out.

your right products don't get recalled unless it's hazardous to it's consumers or the defective rate is far beyond said company can handle. MS putting over 1 billion back into its consumers is far beyond what i have seen any company do with any product. at that point most companies will just say take us to court. no class action will bring anything close to 1 billion because once the numbers get to high the lawyers will have to start recomending to accept it because you never know what can happen in court.

drbrosco 12-12-2007 11:37 AM

If you want one for the holidays do what I am doing;

my xbox died a couple weeks ago. I went to Wal Mart & bought the XBOX 360 Arcade version & put my HDD on it. When I get my refurbed or hopefully new 360 back I will take the one I bought at walmart back as you have 30 days to return it & get my $$$ back. That is if I don't decide to keep it:D

I have heard alot of people are getting new 360's back. How true that is I don't know but i have heard & read it a few times.

bboncorr 12-12-2007 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbrosco (Post 446964)
If you want one for the holidays do what I am doing;

my xbox died a couple weeks ago. I went to Wal Mart & bought the XBOX 360 Arcade version & put my HDD on it. When I get my refurbed or hopefully new 360 back I will take the one I bought at walmart back as you have 30 days to return it & get my $$$ back. That is if I don't decide to keep it:D

I have heard alot of people are getting new 360's back. How true that is I don't know but i have heard & read it a few times.

good idea, i did this with my first broken ps2 back before companies started changing the SKU. back then you could purchase a gaming console then if it broke simply return it to walmart without a reciept and get a new system. but they figured that out and started switching the SKU every X ammout of months so they would know the period in which you bought the system. i also did that with my sega dreamcast just to get a new one.

Type A 12-12-2007 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEEBS1984
Why didn't they recall? Because recall's are typically used when an item could be potentially dangerous and the last time I checked, nobody has died from the RRoD.

So, what will turn out to be, millions of high dollar consoles bricking isnt good enough for a recall eh, my console has to threaten my life too? Gotcha, glad you agree with that concept, cause I dont.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEEBS1984
I am seriously confused about how you feel "abused". Did Microsoft go over to your house and beat you or molest you? What the hell do you want Microsoft to do?

Over-night me a loaner console while Im awaiting my second month without my console. Oh, and BTW, give me a free year of XBL gold for your inept engineers.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KEEBS1984
Microsoft, however, is not one of those corporations. If your system breaks, they don't tell you to shove-off, they send you a box and you send them your Xbox, you wait a couple-3 weeks, and then you get a brand new Xbox (I got a new one). Its a harmless process, and all you have to do it wait a few weeks. You'll live through it, I promise.

I find your faith in M$ disturbing. I use my 360 as a game console ($400), and Ive spent $1000 on just games for it. Ive easily spent $500 on xbl dlc in the last year, and Ive spent $200 for the hd dvd add on, plus another $400 on hd dvd movies for it. Oh, lets not forget an extra wireless controller, wireless headset, and xbl gold, theres another $100 spent. I use my 360 almost every day, and Ive dropped a couple of Grand in one year to do it. And now you tell me a month without my console is no biggie? You might not mind taking it up the ass from big companys like M$, but I consider sending off a system that expensive, and going without, even for a couple weeks to be completely unacceptable. My console should be trouble-free, for at least FIVE years, otherwise they should stick to software and stay out of the console gaming business.

mshulman 12-12-2007 12:07 PM

Regardless of whether it should be necessary or not, noone would have these problems if they picked up an extended warranty. The $50-60 I spent when I bought my 360 originally was the best $50-60 ever spent. When mine failed, I swapped it out at Best Buy, got a new unit (this time with HDMI) and paid $7 for another 2 year warranty.

I think a recall would have been good, but how long would that take to get everyone a new unit? Being realistic, I think a recall would have been very difficult to do and in many cases unnecessary.

Extending the warranty to 3 years was the right thing to do. Gaming is not a necessity, so it stands to reason if someone is out their console for a few weeks, its not the end of the world. I think MS is doing what they can and need to in order to resolve the issue - so long as units they are replacing are not failing.

Type A 12-12-2007 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman
Regardless of whether it should be necessary or not, noone would have these problems if they picked up an extended warranty. The $50-60 I spent when I bought my 360 originally was the best $50-60 ever spent. When mine failed, I swapped it out at Best Buy, got a new unit (this time with HDMI) and paid $7 for another 2 year warranty.

:eek: Complete bullshit. I consider it an insult, and a joke, to PAY a third party to protect my investment from manufactures defects...ESPECIALLY in a Billion Dollar industry. Did M$ send you a tube of K-Y Jelly after you paid BB for that extended warranty?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman
I think a recall would have been good, but how long would that take to get everyone a new unit? Being realistic, I think a recall would have been very difficult to do and in many cases unnecessary.

Doesnt matter how much or how long it takes when its the right thing to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman
Extending the warranty to 3 years was the right thing to do. Gaming is not a necessity, so it stands to reason if someone is out their console for a few weeks, its not the end of the world. I think MS is doing what they can and need to in order to resolve the issue - so long as units they are replacing are not failing.

Its more than gaming. And, thats a BIG part of the problem, customers are often inconvenienced more than once. Guess this tread officially needs this video of repeat returns:

http://www.g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/..._Warranty.html


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