High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

Flat-Panel TVs Plasma, LCD

Like Tree2Likes

Example of what a calibration disc can do

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-04-2009, 10:54 AM   #46  
How can anyone watch standard def?
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Default

so i got the calibration disc, maybe im an idiot, how do i calibrate? all they do is talk, when do i change settings? thanks!
yankees07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 03:18 PM   #47  
Former Super Moderator - RIP
 
PFC5's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mass
Posts: 38,290
Default

We need to know which calibration disc you bought as well as which format (i.e. SD DVD, BD, HD DVD, etc) it is on.

If it is DVE you need to go to the main menu and look for the test screens section.
PFC5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 04:45 PM   #48  
How can anyone watch standard def?
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFC5 View Post
We need to know which calibration disc you bought as well as which format (i.e. SD DVD, BD, HD DVD, etc) it is on.

If it is DVE you need to go to the main menu and look for the test screens section.
DVE Blu-Ray...i got it from netflix, there is no filter i have heard people speak of. I sat through like 30 min of technical nonsense and dont know what to do now.

working on a sharp 32 1080p
yankees07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 05:06 PM   #49  
lost
 
1955's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Huntington Beach
Age: 63
Posts: 612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankees07 View Post
DVE Blu-Ray...i got it from netflix, there is no filter i have heard people speak of. I sat through like 30 min of technical nonsense and dont know what to do now.

working on a sharp 32 1080p
Yesterday I was going to do the same as you, rent it through Netflix, but then I read here that you need some THX glasses. The glasses are only 1.99, but the shipping is 9 dollars...I can stand a screwing every so often, but 9 dollars for shipping something that weighs nothing is more than excessive. So instead I went to Amazon and bought the same disk for 16.99, and it comes with filters. So for 5 dollars more I own the disk, will have all the filters and can recalibrate my tv whenever I want to.
1955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 07:48 AM   #50  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
tvine2000's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: vermont
Posts: 1,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XDRoX View Post
Just took some more pics, this time of the nightly news. I think these are more reason than the others to calibrate.
And I know, probably not the best choice of a model, but you can see what calibrating does.



the second pic. looks great,but here again white people don't look like that.flesh is not that color.it still looks to much on the red/pink side.iv'e yet to see a hdtv get flesh tones right ...film gets it right.
tvine2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 02:47 PM   #51  
Former Super Moderator - RIP
 
PFC5's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mass
Posts: 38,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvine2000 View Post
the second pic. looks great,but here again white people don't look like that.flesh is not that color.it still looks to much on the red/pink side.iv'e yet to see a hdtv get flesh tones right ...film gets it right.
I agree that the colors are still over saturated. I like my picture to look like real life but some do seem to want their TVs to look surreal and have more "pop" than real life or the source.
PFC5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 03:37 PM   #52  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,196
Default

The Color Saturation is the hardest control to set. When you get a Pro. Cal. they use a Colorimeter which is about 200X more accurate than the human eye as far as sensitivity to changes in color (RGB)

But there is a trick that you can do that will allow you to set the Color Saturation with a reasonable level of accuracy. And you don't need a calibration disc to do it.

Step 1. Choose a movie with a scene (outdoors) that is very colorful - a LIVE ACTION movie - not a CGI based movie.

Step 2. Turn the Color Sat. control down to ZERO.

Step 3. Start the scene and slowly turn the control up until you just begin to see a faint trace of color in the scene. Write that number down on a piece of paper.

BTW - with the color off - is your image truly B & W? Or does it have a red or blue tint to it? If so - your Color Temp. is off and needs to be adjusted

Step 4. Restart the scene with just the trace of color and continue to increase the Color Sat. control until you see the colors just begin to either over saturate or bleed. Write this number down.

Now you have the low and high of the range of your Color Sat. control. For EXAMPLE:

Low is 30

High is 60

Step 5. - set the control at the middle number - in our example - that would be 45 and restart the scene once again.

How does the color look? You don't want too much color sat. Less is more because of the 8bit limitation of the HDTV color system. More then what you should have leads to Color Banding.

Step 6. 45 is now your median number. Replay the scene and adjust very slowly down to 40. The run it back up to 45 and slowly increase it to 50. Is there a large difference between the two images you see (40 and 50)? It is better to go lower than higher as I mentioned.

When I have posted this - almost all people will use the range between 40 and 45
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 04:04 PM   #53  
Former Super Moderator - RIP
 
PFC5's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mass
Posts: 38,290
Default

That sounds like a good base way to get the saturation correct, but bleeding generally does not happen with non-CRT based TVs like what happens with CRTs. Also people generally have different views of what "over saturation" actually IS, and it is based on what they are use to seeing, which more times than not is way off from what i have seen people using in their homes even with SDTVs.

With DVE you CAN get the proper saturation along with the contrast & brightness by using the 3 color gels but it can be tricky to align all 3 settings to get the best settings for each. It can be done, but of course nothing replaces an actual colormeter used by a pro. I like to compare it to a real world "look" myself once I get it all set to make sure it IS what it should look like, but a pro calibration is the only completely accurate way to do it of course.

I do think your method is excellent for the average person to do it so thanks for sharing that.
PFC5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 04:12 PM   #54  
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 47,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFC5 View Post
That sounds like a good base way to get the saturation correct, but bleeding generally does not happen with non-CRT based TVs like what happens with CRTs. Also people generally have different views of what "over saturation" actually IS, and it is based on what they are use to seeing, which more times than not is way off from what i have seen people using in their homes even with SDTVs.

With DVE you CAN get the proper saturation along with the contrast & brightness by using the 3 color gels but it can be tricky to align all 3 settings to get the best settings for each. It can be done, but of course nothing replaces an actual colormeter used by a pro. I like to compare it to a real world "look" myself once I get it all set to make sure it IS what it should look like, but a pro calibration is the only completely accurate way to do it of course.

I do think your method is excellent for the average person to do it so thanks for sharing that.
"Bleeding" definitely happens on digital displays. Just look at the SMPTE Color Bars test pattern - look at the transition from one color to another. It isn't a crisp straight line.

"Blooming" is when the saturation is too high - the color is oversaturated and destroys very fine detail found in the Luma portion of the signal.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 04:30 PM   #55  
Former Super Moderator - RIP
 
PFC5's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mass
Posts: 38,290
Default

It was impossible for me to make my DLP "bloom" either colors or whites, but it still could be over saturated none the less. It is much harder for the average person to define this over saturation I think, and that is part of the problem.

I think the biggest problem is that people care too much about making the display have a "pop" in it, and that is where the false presumption of color saturation being overstated comes from. Many seem to equate vibrancy to extreme with a"nice" picture. I had a friend who had his display set so high on color saturation that the colors on the orange in the Tampa Bay Bucks uniform bleeding into the grass with his new CRT display a couple of years ago.
PFC5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 07:46 PM   #56  
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFC5 View Post
If someone cannot see how much better the PQ is on the second calibrated one of the factory VIVID setting, then maybe they shouldn't even bother getting a HDTV.

Thanks for posting those pics. It will help many people see how "off" most factory settings (particularly the VIVID) are. If you want to post more examples just keep using this same thread so all the reference differences will be in one place.

Good job!
Cool info
bookit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2009, 10:56 PM   #57  
BAZ-man
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 30
Default

XDRoX: thanks for the disk reference. That one does cover all that one needs in a simplistic manor.

I had picked up the Monster disk (with the lady on the front). It is a talky, with lots of live video pix. Gets the point across, mostly just the White and Black levels and a contrast page with a LOT of blabber talk. Stills with a caption would have done these.

On top of that, it had really crappy vid dub effects, like looking at a VHS or SD DVD upscale. Sad, being from Monster.

And then you have to listen to her '1st' music video.

And pay $10 more. I got mine for only $10.
BAZ-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2009, 06:03 PM   #58  
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvine2000 View Post
the second pic. looks great,but here again white people don't look like that.flesh is not that color.it still looks to much on the red/pink side.iv'e yet to see a hdtv get flesh tones right ...film gets it right.
Then again, she is a news anchor and they tend to wear tons of make-up. That could have something to do with it couldn't it?
stritheor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 11:06 AM   #59  
ISF Calibrator
 
dsskid's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
The Color Saturation is the hardest control to set. When you get a Pro. Cal. they use a Colorimeter which is about 200X more accurate than the human eye as far as sensitivity to changes in color (RGB)

But there is a trick that you can do that will allow you to set the Color Saturation with a reasonable level of accuracy. And you don't need a calibration disc to do it.

Step 1. Choose a movie with a scene (outdoors) that is very colorful - a LIVE ACTION movie - not a CGI based movie.

Step 2. Turn the Color Sat. control down to ZERO.

Step 3. Start the scene and slowly turn the control up until you just begin to see a faint trace of color in the scene. Write that number down on a piece of paper.

BTW - with the color off - is your image truly B & W? Or does it have a red or blue tint to it? If so - your Color Temp. is off and needs to be adjusted

Step 4. Restart the scene with just the trace of color and continue to increase the Color Sat. control until you see the colors just begin to either over saturate or bleed. Write this number down.

Now you have the low and high of the range of your Color Sat. control. For EXAMPLE:

Low is 30

High is 60

Step 5. - set the control at the middle number - in our example - that would be 45 and restart the scene once again.

How does the color look? You don't want too much color sat. Less is more because of the 8bit limitation of the HDTV color system. More then what you should have leads to Color Banding.

Step 6. 45 is now your median number. Replay the scene and adjust very slowly down to 40. The run it back up to 45 and slowly increase it to 50. Is there a large difference between the two images you see (40 and 50)? It is better to go lower than higher as I mentioned.

When I have posted this - almost all people will use the range between 40 and 45

I agree. Too much color saturation is one of the most common mistakes made when calibrating. It robs you of detail, and often makes skin tones look unnature even if the tint is properly set.

I was going to comment on the first shots in the OP. The color saturation in my opinion is too high and the brightness appears might be set a little too low, creating a bit of black crush, both of which would reduce detail. (which would lead to the newbie to comment about lose of sharpness),

I found that if I calibrate my display with the DVE, and then lower color level down about two notches, it makes the color seem more natural. People aren't meant to look like cartoons.

Lee, you're right
less is more.

Last edited by dsskid; 03-11-2009 at 11:10 AM..
dsskid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 07:22 PM   #60  
What is HD?
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1
Default From a self calibrated Sharp LC-52XS

From a self calibrated LC-52XS1U.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010230.jpg (38.2 KB, 207 views)
File Type: jpg P1010152.jpg (44.8 KB, 185 views)
cmpmeridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


to Example of what a calibration disc can do
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
calibration disc needed? titan7 HDTV Calibration 10 02-02-2010 10:06 PM
Why Do I Need To Set "Sharpness" With The BD Calibration Disc? Peter Marlowe Rear-Projection TVs 24 01-31-2009 06:43 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:19 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands