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LCD vs Plasma-top brand LCD matches Plasma

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Old 09-12-2007, 08:46 PM   #1  
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Default LCD vs Plasma-top brand LCD matches Plasma

HDTV-Test
(The glossy Super Clear Panel™ really does wonders for blacks – in this particular regard the Samsung LE40M86BD has the lowest black level of all the LCD TVs we've tested so far. Heck, if I really wanted to insist (for purely academic purpose), I could have dialed the black level down even more to exceed the reference-level black on Panasonic TH42PH9 plasma. This is made possible by the addition of "Backlight" option (not available on LE40F71BX) on top of "Energy Saving" option for further backlight finetuning.

But because lowering the backlight to such an extent entailed too much sacrifice in shadow detail and overall luminance, I settled at a slightly higher backlight level while maintaining video black. Even then the Samsung had no problems matching the blacks on the recent Panasonic TH42PX70 plasma TV.

Make no mistake, the Samsung LE40M86BD is easily among the best in its class, certainly miles better than its predecessor LE40F71BX.)

Well well well, lets just say for now the gap has closed with at least a couple of the LCD manfactures.
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:04 PM   #2  
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You're preaching to the choir my brother. I have already seen it. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter. PDP fans, will still contend that Plasma produces a deeper more detailed black, whether it is still true or not.

-robox
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:11 PM   #3  
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Default LCD's are surpassing plasmas

As anyone, including reviewers, can readily see upon comparing the Samsung 81 series LCD's powered by LED's (e.g., LN-T5781F) with the best plasmas around these days (the Kuro series of Pioneer [e.g., PDP6010] and Pioneer Elite [e.g., PRO150F]), LCD's are taking the fight directly to the castle of plasma: black levels.

Samsung's contrast ratio, admittedly the "dynamic" one, of 100,000:1 [that's right, one hundred thousand to one] will knock your eyes out. Kuro's are wonderful sets, and cheaper than the Samsungs (the 60 inch PRO150F, Elite's best, is cheaper than the 57 inch Samsung noted above!), but the truth is the Samsung picture is simply better.

In short, I agree wholeheartedly with the last post.
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:16 AM   #4  
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HDTV-test said the highest properly tested contrast ratio of any FPD came from a LCD not sure if it was samsung or sony will have to look it up again.
i have seen a samsung 52" LCD next to a Panasonic 50" plasma
both playing the same HD Movie and allthough the plasma looked very good, very crisp and clear the samsung LCD (had what i thought and others with me) a sharper picture.
although i have a earlier model Samsung LCD i did find it a bit to bright and the colours a bit (as plasma owners say cartoonish) so guess what i turned the brightness down and the colour down to 35%the colours are now as natural looking as any FPD ive seen, which now leaves me with the option off if i put the TV back into a brighter room i can turn these options back up again.
we think this amazing boys.

went and had a look at the new 1080p Hitachi 50" PDP the other day
nice crisp picture, the colours looked more like a over saturated LCD and the shadow detail was terrible, it was showing a HD image with a lady with black hair, the lack of detail made her air look more like she was wearing a funy shaped black hat yet the picture was quite bright overall.
i will be looking at the new 1080p 50" & 58" panasonics in the next couple of days, i do like their plasma's and even thought of buing one but ill see how it compairs against the best brands in LCD with their pin sharp detail.
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:24 AM   #5  
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I surpose it wont be to long before we have a reply from the other camp.

Last edited by Bad Bazza; 09-13-2007 at 12:27 AM..
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:15 AM   #6  
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Originally Posted by Bad Bazza View Post
I surpose it wont be to long before we have a reply from the other camp.
Your wish is granted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robox4 View Post
You're preaching to the choir my brother. I have already seen it. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter. PDP fans, will still contend that Plasma produces a deeper more detailed black, whether it is still true or not.

-robox
Robox:

a) The 1st Panasonic Panel is several generations and years old and,

b) The 2nd Panel, the PX70 isn't the class leader, the Pioneer 508 / 428XD are and are allegedly streaks ahead of the Panasonic in black levels.

I'm just in the process of obtaining a copy of the latest Edition of What Hi Fi Sound and Vision due out on the 20th September, the UK's leading Home Cinema Magazine and one that employs a £1 Million Pound ($2Million) testing suite with computerised anaylsis of screens to ensure that their judgements are scientific and not just based on personal preference.

The magazine has just tested the Pioneer 428XD Plasma back to back with all the other latest top screens including Samsung, Hitachi, Sharp Sanyo, Toshiba and Sony Bravia LCDs, and the Panasonic PX70, PZ70.

Full test list:

Hitachi P42T01U

JVC LT-42DA8BJ

Panasonic 42PX70

Panasonic 42PZ70

Pioneer PDP-428XD

Samsung LE40M86/ LE40M87

Sanyo CE42FD81

Sharp LC-42XDIE

Sony KDL-40W3000

Toshiba 42X3030


Whereas I can't reproduce the report on here for obvious copyright reasons, I will report a summary of their conclusions (obviously if you want the full report you'll have to buy / order the magazine).

However, this should settle the quality argument once and for all as the test involves both the top plasma and LCD screens.

Last edited by Alsone; 09-13-2007 at 01:33 AM..
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Old 09-13-2007, 02:14 AM   #7  
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So what you are telling me Alsone is that HDTV Test may not know how to test a FPD as good as someone else even though the rest of the industry does, so much so they dont have to buy their TV's now to test them the manufactures are loaning their set free of charge for their appraisal.
why would i buy a Pioneer at double the price of a Panasonic Plasma or Smasung LCD when most people couldnt tell the difference anyway.
its only the current model Pioneer thats been rated the best, their previous models weren't and whats to say their next model will be.
there is extremly good quality sets in both LCD & Plasma.
this threat was for the one eyed panny supporters who cant see past their noses.
i have no problems with believing the current pioneer is the best, but i wouldn't pay double the price over a panny or samsung or sony.
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:06 AM   #8  
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Samsung's contrast ratio, admittedly the "dynamic" one, of 100,000:1 [that's right, one hundred thousand to one] will knock your eyes out.
The very fact that numbers like these continue to surface in debates like this can only demonstrate the passion (or the ignorance) of those entering the debate.

Numbers like 100,000:1 (that's right, one hundred thousand-to-one) are TOTALLY bogus, and anyone who does not yet understand this simple fact is only demonstrating ignorance and presenting a very weak, uninformed and ,obviously non-technical argument.

There is (to my knowledge) only one industry accepted method for measurement of contrast ratio, and that is the ANSI checkerboard. The average plasma display using this method can only achieve contrast ratios of 250:1 to 550:1 (according to the "Plasma Display Coalition" web site).

Any other method of "generating" contrast ratio specifications, will be bogus because it will use tricks that do not represent actual viewing conditions or accurate display settings, and until manufacturer's provide exact details of how these contrast ratio numbers are measured, it would be wise and prudent for intelligent people to ignore them completely.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:28 AM   #9  
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The very fact that numbers like these continue to surface in debates like this can only demonstrate the passion (or the ignorance) of those entering the debate.

Numbers like 100,000:1 (that's right, one hundred thousand-to-one) are TOTALLY bogus, and anyone who does not yet understand this simple fact is only demonstrating ignorance and presenting a very weak, uninformed and ,obviously non-technical argument.
Precisely Bill, that is why I prefer not to look at engineering specs, rather let my eyes do the judging. In the area of contrast, there are LCD flats that now rival that of Plasma. They really do.

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Old 09-13-2007, 06:50 AM   #10  
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Ummm..... yeah...... LCD blacks are not in the same category as plasma without screwing around with the backlight setting. And, even then....

Ahh.... who cares anyways. If people think that their LCD can achieve plasma blacks then let them think that. No harm done, dreaming is an important part of the mind. Ya know, kind of like the guy with a bad comb-over who "thinks" that his hair actually looks good.

All good here.....
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:05 AM   #11  
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Ahh.... who cares anyways. If people think that their LCD can achieve plasma blacks then let them think that.
Thanks for allowing us to think that!
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:37 AM   #12  
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Ya know, kind of like the guy with a bad comb-over who "thinks" that his hair actually looks good.
haaaaaaaaaaaa.............
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:39 AM   #13  
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As I pointed out earlier:

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Originally Posted by billinprinceto View Post
There is (to my knowledge) only one industry accepted method for measurement of contrast ratio, and that is the ANSI checkerboard. The average plasma display using this method can only achieve contrast ratios of 250:1 to 550:1 (according to the "Plasma Display Coalition" web site).
Well, I just had my set, a "mid-tier", low cost, 32" LCD, which had a woefully low published contrast ratio of a mere 1,000:1, measured to ANSI checkerboard, and measured from 426:1 to 528:1 depending on which input was being calibrated. I guess it's no wonder that I don't see any difference between plasma or LCD given that actual measured data says I should not, as a "normal viewer" be able to perceive the differences.

Mind sets are one thing, data is yet another, and I don't see anyone posting any data to back up their "beliefs" that plasma has noticeably better blacks than LCD.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:41 AM   #14  
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So what you are telling me Alsone is that HDTV Test may not know how to test a FPD as good as someone else even though the rest of the industry does, so much so they dont have to buy their TV's now to test them the manufactures are loaning their set free of charge for their appraisal.
why would i buy a Pioneer at double the price of a Panasonic Plasma or Smasung LCD when most people couldnt tell the difference anyway.
its only the current model Pioneer thats been rated the best, their previous models weren't and whats to say their next model will be.
there is extremly good quality sets in both LCD & Plasma.
this threat was for the one eyed panny supporters who cant see past their noses.
i have no problems with believing the current pioneer is the best, but i wouldn't pay double the price over a panny or samsung or sony.

No one is saying that there's anything wrong with that test, just that the PX70 isn't the leading display according to many test reports around the web as they say the new Pioneer exceeds it. Its certainly the best display prior to that although the Pioneer 427 runs it close and personally I prefer the 427 although thats personal choice.

If the Samsung can match the Panny's black levels then I take my hat off to it on that score at least.

As this discussion is really an extension of the "Does anyone else hate plasma" debate which in itself is really which is better, LCD v Plasma, then its only fair to bring the best possible screens on test into the equation from one of the very best testing facilities / technical staff out there.

As the magazine isn't out yet, I don't know the conclusion. We will all have to wait and see.
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:28 PM   #15  
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Ummm..... yeah...... LCD blacks are not in the same category as plasma without screwing around with the backlight setting. And, even then....

Ahh.... who cares anyways. If people think that their LCD can achieve plasma blacks then let them think that. No harm done, dreaming is an important part of the mind. Ya know, kind of like the guy with a bad comb-over who "thinks" that his hair actually looks good.

All good here.....
people dont have to think or dream as you say, some of the best LCD blacks do match that of Plasma its been proven by proper testing and if you read my orrignal thread, some LCD panel have a higher contrast ratio than any plasma they had tested.
my intention of this thread is to inform the illinformed that plasma isn't the best in most cases and lcd can match them.
i like both LCD & Plasma and may even settle for a new 50" 1080p plasma over a 52" lcd if the picture is better.
but at this stage anyway i dont see any technical information telling me otherwise that with the exception of one brand (pioneer wich is to expensive anyway) panny and sammy and sony are that close to the same quality it doesn't matter.

Last edited by Bad Bazza; 09-13-2007 at 08:39 PM..
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