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Old 03-15-2007, 09:48 PM   #91  
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Originally Posted by RedSIinPA
Yeah, down here in Philly we get those big guns and we make sure they get in the hands of the extra stupid people which is a good recipe for high lethality in our shootings.

We in US can thank the NRA's political influence for pretty much the only reason why we haven't adopted firearms laws like Canada has. And that's coming from a former handgun owner (9mm and a .40 cal.). Thankfully, one day I realized that not being a hunter, I had no need for a handgun and traded them in for some nice fishing equipment.
No, we have the NRA to thank for the fact that our right to bear arms hasn't been assrammed like in Canada and Europe. Gun control does NOTHING to solve gun related crimes. Look at Washington DC for instance. They recently have allowed private ownership of firearms, but they had some of the most gun related crimes per capita of any city in the world. Gun control laws only punish law abiding citizens, as it does nothing to keep criminals from bearing arms. If someone is determined to commit a crime, they will find a way to obtain a firearm illegally for their purpose. What we have to thank are pussy ass liberals who fight for the rights of criminals. If I put my Glock 9mm on the table right in front of you, it will stay there until someone picks one up. A gun is an inanimate object and cannot be used until someone picks it up and uses it. I believe that penalties for gun related crimes should be VERY severe. I say raise the economic costs to an individual for committing a gun related crim to a prohibitive level, and less crimes will be committed. I'm sick of this crap where someone uses a gun to commit a crime and then get's released very early.

I want to add though that I do not support the NRA. There are many things that they stand for that I consider to be questionable. One of the latest thigns they have fought against that I heavily disagree with was fighting against possible legislation that would force all firearms manufacturers to put individual unique serial numbers on every firearm for tracking purposes.

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Old 03-15-2007, 10:14 PM   #92  
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ah ok. right on. my sis works on Market near city hall @ Blank Rome...I'm the suburbanite - Montgomery County, I work in Norristown. Philly nonetheless, it's all one big angry family . Can't wait for Phillies season and heading down to South Philly for some beers and some baseball. Gotta love spring training - there's still some hope for our team before the season actually starts.
Yea bro...Phightens looking good this year...Cole Hamels baby,i love our 5
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:25 PM   #93  
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No, we have the NRA to thank for the fact that our right to bear arms hasn't been assrammed like in Canada and Europe. Gun control does NOTHING to solve gun related crimes. Look at Washington DC for instance. They recently have allowed private ownership of firearms, but they had some of the most gun related crimes per capita of any city in the world. Gun control laws only punish law abiding citizens, as it does nothing to keep criminals from bearing arms. If someone is determined to commit a crime, they will find a way to obtain a firearm illegally for their purpose. What we have to thank are pussy ass liberals who fight for the rights of criminals. If I put my Glock 9mm on the table right in front of you, it will stay there until someone picks one up. A gun is an inanimate object and cannot be used until someone picks it up and uses it. I believe that penalties for gun related crimes should be VERY severe. I say raise the economic costs to an individual for committing a gun related crim to a prohibitive level, and less crimes will be committed. I'm sick of this crap where someone uses a gun to commit a crime and then get's released very early.

I want to add though that I do not support the NRA. There are many things that they stand for that I consider to be questionable. One of the latest thigns they have fought against that I heavily disagree with was fighting against possible legislation that would force all firearms manufacturers to put individual unique serial numbers on every firearm for tracking purposes.
See this is one of those topics that get me pissed off for several reasons...I,as many would have it seem,would be what I guess you could call Liberal YET..this is one of the many topics I have a very...dare I say "conservative" outlook on. Gun Control has yet to show me that it can work..like I said before i work in North Philly,an area of the city for years known as the "The Badlands"...in the 50's and 60's this area was a very affluent area of the city...huge homes,great shopping and theater districts,its a very historical section of the city. Then throughout the 70's and right into the 80's explosion of crack this area became a prime example of "white flight". Over the next 20+ years it has gone downhill since..hell I laugh at these upper-middle class surbanite kids who go to Temple and think they are cool just walking around campus...yea campus which is a few short square blocks,outside of that very tight area its complete plight. I see kids...yea like 15-17 year old kids who are carrying guns every single day of the week....Do I think gun control is working? Ask the families of the 83 homicide victims of '07 so far if they think gun control is working? That number doesnt take inot account the actual number of shootings,just the ones where somebody dies... I have to carry EVERY SINGLE day,I dont want to,hell I dont want to kill anyone but Im certainly not gonna let some teenage idiot all amped up on 50 Cent come in my shop and pull a gun and put my life in his hands...you want gun control,get to the real issue....people who misuse them.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:05 PM   #94  
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See this is one of those topics that get me pissed off for several reasons...I,as many would have it seem,would be what I guess you could call Liberal YET..this is one of the many topics I have a very...dare I say "conservative" outlook on. Gun Control has yet to show me that it can work..like I said before i work in North Philly,an area of the city for years known as the "The Badlands"...in the 50's and 60's this area was a very affluent area of the city...huge homes,great shopping and theater districts,its a very historical section of the city. Then throughout the 70's and right into the 80's explosion of crack this area became a prime example of "white flight". Over the next 20+ years it has gone downhill since..hell I laugh at these upper-middle class surbanite kids who go to Temple and think they are cool just walking around campus...yea campus which is a few short square blocks,outside of that very tight area its complete plight. I see kids...yea like 15-17 year old kids who are carrying guns every single day of the week....Do I think gun control is working? Ask the families of the 83 homicide victims of '07 so far if they think gun control is working? That number doesnt take inot account the actual number of shootings,just the ones where somebody dies... I have to carry EVERY SINGLE day,I dont want to,hell I dont want to kill anyone but Im certainly not gonna let some teenage idiot all amped up on 50 Cent come in my shop and pull a gun and put my life in his hands...you want gun control,get to the real issue....people who misuse them.

Well said. Some of the very supporters of gun control are the very people who have never had a violent crime committed against them. Get robbed or carjacked at knifepoints, and then tell me again whether you think gun control is a good thing. Bad people ALWAYS have a way to obtain guns through the black market. As a result, you are always helping out the bad guys when you try to make laws that restrict decent people from being able to protect themselves. I also like guns for recreational purposes as it's fun to go to a range and pull off a bunch of shots.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:10 PM   #95  
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Hell yea...i get to the range..well itry for no less than 2-3 times a month...in the winter I have more time so I go more. As it gets warmer out,my teim diminishes.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:04 AM   #96  
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deleted...

don't want to start a gun debate

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Old 03-16-2007, 10:33 AM   #97  
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Originally Posted by junehhan
No, we have the NRA to thank for the fact that our right to bear arms hasn't been assrammed like in Canada and Europe. Gun control does NOTHING to solve gun related crimes. Look at Washington DC for instance. They recently have allowed private ownership of firearms, but they had some of the most gun related crimes per capita of any city in the world. Gun control laws only punish law abiding citizens, as it does nothing to keep criminals from bearing arms. If someone is determined to commit a crime, they will find a way to obtain a firearm illegally for their purpose. What we have to thank are pussy ass liberals who fight for the rights of criminals. If I put my Glock 9mm on the table right in front of you, it will stay there until someone picks one up. A gun is an inanimate object and cannot be used until someone picks it up and uses it. I believe that penalties for gun related crimes should be VERY severe. I say raise the economic costs to an individual for committing a gun related crim to a prohibitive level, and less crimes will be committed. I'm sick of this crap where someone uses a gun to commit a crime and then get's released very early.

I want to add though that I do not support the NRA. There are many things that they stand for that I consider to be questionable. One of the latest thigns they have fought against that I heavily disagree with was fighting against possible legislation that would force all firearms manufacturers to put individual unique serial numbers on every firearm for tracking purposes.
I would beg do differ on the effectiveness of gun control and it not working. In Canada and our largest city we had 78 shootings last year for the entire year compare that to the 75 I think it was that GODSON said Philly alone has had sine January. I would guess that to you that isn't working but to me that is working. It was also fond that a number of the shootings were comitted by Americans that illegally brought firearms into the country with them so you tell me where the problem lies. No offense I just wanted to point out how it is actually working up here.

I agree with your bolded statement I outlined the NRA seems to want to rally the troops every time something happens. I found it disrespectfull the way they held rallies in Flint Michigan after the little schol girl was shot and killed in the school and also after the Columbine shootings that to me does more to tarnish and hurt their reputation than help the cause they are trying to establish and maintain just my opinion though. Those are just 2 examples that were plastered all of the US media at the time I am sure there are more instances of this over the years but those 2 seemed to get the coverage.

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Old 03-16-2007, 10:45 AM   #98  
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i believe it to be a derivative of the chicken and the egg story and I haven't the answer. do readily available guns cause people to become violent, or does the society itself lend itself to more violence, hence making guns simply a tool of the "trade" if you will, of violent people...

I'm not trying to suggest that only violent people own guns (or any weapons.) But I think what some people are saying, about "fix the people, don't just disarm them" are getting at. However, it's much easier to contemplate to disarm a group rather than change an entire mentality.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:52 AM   #99  
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i believe it to be a derivative of the chicken and the egg story and I haven't the answer. do readily available guns cause people to become violent, or does the society itself lend itself to more violence, hence making guns simply a tool of the "trade" if you will, of violent people...

I'm not trying to suggest that only violent people own guns (or any weapons.) But I think what some people are saying, about "fix the people, don't just disarm them" are getting at. However, it's much easier to contemplate to disarm a group rather than change an entire mentality.
I agree 100% what would the cost be to actually test and try to properly (not jail) reform these people especially in teh US where your medical coverage isn't paid for out of your taxes who would foot the bill everyone but the people needing the help for the most part.
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:04 PM   #100  
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I would beg do differ on the effectiveness of gun control and it not working. In Canada and our largest city we had 78 shootings last year for the entire year compare that to the 75 I think it was that GODSON said Philly alone has had sine January. I would guess that to you that isn't working but to me that is working. It was also fond that a number of the shootings were comitted by Americans that illegally brought firearms into the country with them so you tell me where the problem lies. No offense I just wanted to point out how it is actually working up here.

I agree with your bolded statement I outlined the NRA seems to want to rally the troops every time something happens. I found it disrespectfull the way they held rallies in Flint Michigan after the little schol girl was shot and killed in the school and also after the Columbine shootings that to me does more to tarnish and hurt their reputation than help the cause they are trying to establish and maintain just my opinion though. Those are just 2 examples that were plastered all of the US media at the time I am sure there are more instances of this over the years but those 2 seemed to get the coverage.
Listen bro..Im far from not being open to a solid idea..the problem is,in my experiance atleast,they dont have one. Where Im at were kinda in a drastic measure situation...I mean the number is officially up to 83 this year alone. I open for whatever,I just dont think its as simple as taking away guns right now. Also I note your thoughts on how its worked effectively in some areas but mind you Philadelphia,and many urban areas have issues that are not always present in others...Im never looking for a gun debate....just want a solution.
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:27 PM   #101  
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Listen bro..Im far from not being open to a solid idea..the problem is,in my experiance atleast,they dont have one. Where Im at were kinda in a drastic measure situation...I mean the number is officially up to 83 this year alone. I open for whatever,I just dont think its as simple as taking away guns right now. Also I note your thoughts on how its worked effectively in some areas but mind you Philadelphia,and many urban areas have issues that are not always present in others...Im never looking for a gun debate....just want a solution.
I agree and the first steps are to TRY and this is the tough part for any country is to get the guns out of the criminals hands then worry about the rest of society. This is not so easy as they always find ways to aquire firearms there just needs to be a better solution to trying to disarm the crooks then they can worry about the law abiding people. How that can be done I have no idea whatever they are doing up here seems to be working for the most part but who's to say it would work down there. The flip side to that is you disarm the law abiding citicens and the crooks have no weapons to steal during a home invasion etc so it is a catch 22 for the most part there just needs to be a better way and soon before to many people feel like they need to use deadly force to defend themselves.
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Old 03-17-2007, 12:00 AM   #102  
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Disarming criminals should never come at the expense of someone's freedom and right to defend themself. That's so true because the cops sure as hell arn't going to be around whenever you need them. A good friend of our family has been shot twice, and beaten at her store from gangbangers who are trying to intimidate her into giving them protection money. She firmly believes that the cops in her area are taking bribes because they even tried to side with the criminals during their court hearing. She said that they also take forever to respond during emergencies. She won't own a gun because she doesn't want to learn how to use one, but NOBODY should deny her the right to protect herself and her buisness that she worked hard for. The deal is the same for homeowners who especially live in questionable neighborhoods. Not everyone can afford to move into 7 digit housing subdivisions, and have to live where they can.

As for Canada and many other westernized countries not having the same level of gun related violence, I believe that it is due to cultural differences and not as an effect of more stringent gun control. America is a rather violent culture if you think about it. Perhaps gun related violence just runs in our blood. As I said, look at Washington DC if you want to see the poster child example of gun control not working. As i've said before, simply raise the opportunity cost of doing a gun related crime to a prohibitive level if you want people to stop using guns to commit crimes. Here in America, it is simply too easy to purchase guns illegally through the black market if guns were banned. Ask my friend who illegally owns an AK-47 that he bought on the black market and was imported in from some former Soviet Union country.
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Old 03-17-2007, 12:44 AM   #103  
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Yea...ya know june..I just dont have an answer bro. Its kinda why alot of people hate disussing this with me,as im quite open that I do not indeed have an answer...I just want a damn solution. On one hand,we've seen what doesnt work,atleast here in the states...and on the other we have a shitload of ideas that seem either unrealistic or just plain stupid. I just want somebody,I mean all this damn talk of ffighting for freedom and America needing to police the world...come police MY DAMN NEIGHBORHOOD and the thousands of neighborhoods like mine and yours. If not,then certainly taking away my ability to protect myself should not even be a thought.
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Old 03-17-2007, 07:27 AM   #104  
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Disarming criminals should never come at the expense of someone's freedom and right to defend themself. That's so true because the cops sure as hell arn't going to be around whenever you need them. A good friend of our family has been shot twice, and beaten at her store from gangbangers who are trying to intimidate her into giving them protection money. She firmly believes that the cops in her area are taking bribes because they even tried to side with the criminals during their court hearing. She said that they also take forever to respond during emergencies. She won't own a gun because she doesn't want to learn how to use one, but NOBODY should deny her the right to protect herself and her buisness that she worked hard for. The deal is the same for homeowners who especially live in questionable neighborhoods. Not everyone can afford to move into 7 digit housing subdivisions, and have to live where they can.

As for Canada and many other westernized countries not having the same level of gun related violence, I believe that it is due to cultural differences and not as an effect of more stringent gun control. America is a rather violent culture if you think about it. Perhaps gun related violence just runs in our blood. As I said, look at Washington DC if you want to see the poster child example of gun control not working. As i've said before, simply raise the opportunity cost of doing a gun related crime to a prohibitive level if you want people to stop using guns to commit crimes. Here in America, it is simply too easy to purchase guns illegally through the black market if guns were banned. Ask my friend who illegally owns an AK-47 that he bought on the black market and was imported in from some former Soviet Union country.
What I do find funny in this is that up here if somone breaks into your home and you beat them they can sue you for it and you can be charged with assault. If somone trys to break into your home and injures themselves you are liable for thie wellbeing and are held responsable for thie injury and your insurance company pais for their injuries. That I find messed up but hey I can live with that for the number of times a crook will ever report being injured while breaking into your home and the cost to him/her for doing so is negligable.
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:09 PM   #105  
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Lol...^^ yea that would make an intersesting police report.
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