High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

Car Forum Talk about your favorite cars, setups, garages (got pics?)!

2011 Ford Fiesta expected to get 40mpg

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-27-2009, 02:01 PM   #16  
High Definition is the definition of life.
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 7,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleb View Post
Getting 40 or 50 mpg is great, but it is kind of meaningless unless a substantial segment of the population is driving them. They are not.
Present day, if folks can squeeze close to 30 out of a small SUV, or breach 20 out of a large one, they are happy.
Only a 'few' are going that extra mile (no pun intended) to just to save gas. They are more interested in cargo and people space, and convenience.
While it's good for us as a country, politically, and ecology-wise, very few are going to spend additional money to get even more mpg while sacrificing power, size, convenience, safety, etc.. At least not enough to make a real difference.
The technology is there, but you hit the nail as noone is going to spend the money as it either makes no economic sense, or they simply want it but can't afford it. The Toyota Prius is the gold standard in fuel economy right now, but it still can't break past 50mpg despite all of the technology in it. I am also not convinced that it is a very practical vehicle for a big family that needs people space. I test drove 2 of them before purchasing my Ford Fusion Hybrid, and it felt much bigger than it actually is.

Right now, I think people have found a good cost/benefit compromise position as they get good fuel efficiency at a reasonable price. If you force firms to sell something that people can't afford or arn't willing to buy, then they will have a HUGE problem. People are the ultimate decision makers and they will buy what makes financial sense for them. A family on a budget could buy a Ford Fusion Hybrid for $27k and get 41mpg, or they could buy a Fusion S for $20k that gets 34mpg.

They could buy a Ford Escape Hybrid 4x4 that costs $36k and gets 31mpg, or they could buy a Escape XL 4x4 for $24k and still get 26mpg. They could buy a Camry Hybrid for nearly $28k that gets 33-34mpg, or they could buy a Camry LE for $22k that gets 31-32mpg.

Hell they can buy a Smart car for $14-15k that gets in the low 30's in fuel economy(see C&D's last review), or they could get a Ford Focus for $15k that gets upto 35mpg.
junehhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 02:15 PM   #17  
Loading Comment...
 
J-Rod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kingwood, TX (Houston)
Age: 43
Posts: 741
Default

(to junehhan) Now actually take to time to read my post.

I brought up the Prius because you brought up an equally piece of shit in the Ford Fiesta?? I'm even giving a highly touted fuel sipper to your meer mortal Ford. Second part of your paragraph is exactly what the fuck I said.

Thats why I own a 2007 GMC Yukon XL & 2000 Nissan Maxima. I'll take both those and pwned your POS Ford.

No I don't that's why I put normal in parenthesis. Your first sentence contradicts your second sentence. And by no means would I put 5 people in any of those cars... I was merely giving the figures and research you so whole heartly asked for. Like this Ford Fusion gets 20/29hwy with a EPA rating of 5-6. Uh oh you won't like this... the Nissan Maxima 19/26hw with a EPA rating of 6. Apples to apples I guess. Wait here Ford Focus 24/35hwy and the Sentra 25/33hwy. I see the Ford is so much more superior, maybe its those good looks.... Nope, they look like shit.

You backed up what I said.

I said batteries are the next mistake. No conspiracy just no motive or money to be had. If everyone stopped using oil to run vehicles, then the people in power (the mf'er's with money, not the president) wouldn't have any money. So as it sits now and into the near future their isn't any incentive to find a better technology. Those 5.00/gal prices got some manafacture's interested since they quit selling product, but was short lived. AGAIN, my point was that your all proud of the fuel mileage, when in reality, we are not doing any better than we were then.

I'm convinced you work for Ford now.

Last edited by J-Rod; 12-27-2009 at 02:17 PM.. Reason: to direct post at junehhan, I didn't quote his spew!
J-Rod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 05:07 PM   #18  
High Definition is the definition of life.
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 7,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Rod View Post
(to junehhan) Now actually take to time to read my post.

I brought up the Prius because you brought up an equally piece of shit in the Ford Fiesta?? I'm even giving a highly touted fuel sipper to your meer mortal Ford. Second part of your paragraph is exactly what the fuck I said.

The way your structured your post, what you are saying isn't clear.

Thats why I own a 2007 GMC Yukon XL & 2000 Nissan Maxima. I'll take both those and pwned your POS Ford.

pwned? Are you another World of Warcraft prick?

No I don't that's why I put normal in parenthesis. Your first sentence contradicts your second sentence. And by no means would I put 5 people in any of those cars... I was merely giving the figures and research you so whole heartly asked for. Like this Ford Fusion gets 20/29hwy with a EPA rating of 5-6.

Check your facts. The Ford Fusion gets 23city and 34 highway. It isn't hard, go to http://www.fordvehicles.com or you can go to an independent site like http://www.caranddriver.com


Uh oh you won't like this... the Nissan Maxima 19/26hw with a EPA rating of 6. Apples to apples I guess. Wait here Ford Focus 24/35hwy and the Sentra 25/33hwy. I see the Ford is so much more superior, maybe its those good looks.... Nope, they look like shit.

Except Ford does it without the use of a CVT which are supposed to be so superior that Nissan is the only manufacturer that more or less exclusively uses them right now.

You backed up what I said.

I said batteries are the next mistake. No conspiracy just no motive or money to be had. If everyone stopped using oil to run vehicles, then the people in power (the mf'er's with money, not the president) wouldn't have any money. So as it sits now and into the near future their isn't any incentive to find a better technology. Those 5.00/gal prices got some manafacture's interested since they quit selling product, but was short lived.

AGAIN, my point was that your all proud of the fuel mileage, when in reality, we are not doing any better than we were then.

I'm convinced you work for Ford now.
I have owned Ford stock for a while now, does that count? Hey, it saved me money as it let me order a Fusion Hybrid at x-plan price at a time when you weren't buying one for under MSRP. BTW, it isn't just $5 a gallon petrol that got manufacturers interested in fuel economy. They got interested when PEOPLE started demanding fuel efficient vehicles. If people didn't demand something, no firm in their right mind will be willing to make a product. Firms that make products that people don't want tend to go out of business unless you happen to get bailed out.

Do you think technological evolution is that instant that you can all of a sudden pop out new technology that is cost efficient? Even the greatest invention of all time, the internet, took decades to evolve into what it is today. It takes years(often decades) and lots of money to bring about technological innovation.

YOu don't wave a magic wand and make something happen. That type of crap only happens in movies. It takes lots of very smart people, lots of money, and lots of time to get it, and even more time before it becomes cost efficient. BTW, companies like Toyota have always been doing research along with Honda. Afterall, Honda was the first to mass produce a hybrid, which failed because people didn't want it. It got over 60mpg, but wasn't anything you would feel secure driving, and wasn't even practical at all.

Vehicles run much cleaner today than they have ever ran, but maybe it isn't fancy electronic technology that is going to be key to bringing about better fuel economy. If you think we havn't been able to come far enough, why don't you do research and help the cause out? We have thousands of very smart scientists across the world searching for the next breakthrough in efficiency and i'm sure they have been doing nothing but sitting on their asses for the last decade.

This isn't some conspiracy, and you can bet these smart people are all trying to find the next breakthrough. However, it will be meaningless if noone can afford the next breakthrough.
junehhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 07:34 PM   #19  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
daleb's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 7,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by junehhan View Post
The technology is there, but you hit the nail as noone is going to spend the money as it either makes no economic sense, or they simply want it but can't afford it. The Toyota Prius is the gold standard in fuel economy right now, but it still can't break past 50mpg despite all of the technology in it. I am also not convinced that it is a very practical vehicle for a big family that needs people space. I test drove 2 of them before purchasing my Ford Fusion Hybrid, and it felt much bigger than it actually is.

Right now, I think people have found a good cost/benefit compromise position as they get good fuel efficiency at a reasonable price. If you force firms to sell something that people can't afford or arn't willing to buy, then they will have a HUGE problem. People are the ultimate decision makers and they will buy what makes financial sense for them. A family on a budget could buy a Ford Fusion Hybrid for $27k and get 41mpg, or they could buy a Fusion S for $20k that gets 34mpg.

They could buy a Ford Escape Hybrid 4x4 that costs $36k and gets 31mpg, or they could buy a Escape XL 4x4 for $24k and still get 26mpg. They could buy a Camry Hybrid for nearly $28k that gets 33-34mpg, or they could buy a Camry LE for $22k that gets 31-32mpg.

Hell they can buy a Smart car for $14-15k that gets in the low 30's in fuel economy(see C&D's last review), or they could get a Ford Focus for $15k that gets upto 35mpg.
I agree, if folks are in the market for a quality fuel sipper, they are not doing themselves a favor by ignoring vehicles that do offer good safety, decent performance, and reasonable comfort while being more economical in the long run.
Maybe the Prius will have a limited future at this point, although considering how many other cars can even approach 50mpg, it will likely be around quite a while. Whether it's a Fusion, Smart Car, Prius, etc. the more the merrier.
A lot of the public still needs to see the bigger picture. I still see big SUVs (standard V8s) with new car plates. I don't doubt there are some people that still need vehicles like that, but I'm sure not near as many as we still see on the road.
Living in a rural area, I do see more older ones on dirt lots with 4 SALE signs also.
daleb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 07:59 PM   #20  
High Definition is the definition of life.
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 7,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleb View Post
I agree, if folks are in the market for a quality fuel sipper, they are not doing themselves a favor by ignoring vehicles that do offer good safety, decent performance, and reasonable comfort while being more economical in the long run.
Maybe the Prius will have a limited future at this point, although considering how many other cars can even approach 50mpg, it will likely be around quite a while. Whether it's a Fusion, Smart Car, Prius, etc. the more the merrier.
A lot of the public still needs to see the bigger picture. I still see big SUVs (standard V8s) with new car plates. I don't doubt there are some people that still need vehicles like that, but I'm sure not near as many as we still see on the road.
Living in a rural area, I do see more older ones on dirt lots with 4 SALE signs also.
Personally, I think it is a good thing when people buy bigass SUV's. Most people think that if Americans all trade in their bigass SUV's for smaller more efficient vehicles, that we as a nation will reduce our dependence on foreign sources of energy. However, that is a very flawed idea when you look at the bigger picture. Some studies done by Economists have now found that switching to more efficient vehicles will not necessarily result in lower oil consumption.

The reason is that a big factor in how much someone chooses to drive is determined by the cost of driving. What they are finding is that because a more fuel efficient vehicle lowers the cost of driving, they end up driving around a lot more. I believe a USAToday survey found that hybrid owners on average drive 20% more than non-hybrid owners. So if someone switches to a more efficient vehicle and starts driving more, the reduction in fuel consumption may not even be there.

Here is why I don't mind people buying bigass SUV's. If people do end up driving more because a more efficient vehicle lowers the cost of driving, they are going to cause more traffic congestion on our highways and roads. This further increases fuel consumption, especially on non-hybrid vehicles as you will spend more time idling. This is why I think Ford should offer an optional 6.8 litre V10 in every SUV they sell. I'm kinda joking here, but not as much as you might think. I hate traffic, and usually adjust my schedule around to avoid driving during peak hours.
junehhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 09:16 PM   #21  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Barrington, Il.
Age: 67
Posts: 2,324
Default

We should all get horses!
Great mileage, no hidden conspiracy going on .
Oh wait, Ford makes a Mustang don't they? never mind!
Emil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 11:41 PM   #22  
High Definition is the definition of life.
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 7,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil View Post
We should all get horses!
Great mileage, no hidden conspiracy going on .
Oh wait, Ford makes a Mustang don't they? never mind!
Ahh, but then we have the agricultural conspiracy. Don't forget that we still need to feed those damn things. Sure we can let them graze the fields during the growing seasons, but we will need to feed them when they are unable to graze.

Some seem to think that the big oil conspiracy is huge, but the agricultural conspiracy is far worse. After all, who do you think is convincing these frickin corrupt politicians that we need to grow all of that corn to power cars. Never mind that farmers are getting huge subsidies to grow this crap when I believe it is a sin that food is being used like this. It costs more, has less energy, a win-win proposition for the agricultural conspirators. Never mind that all of this ethanol crap is wreaking havoc on older vehicles by destroying their fuel systems. We were just talking not long ago in another thread here about what these E10 blends are doing to carbeurators. And now there is talk that they want to authorize the use of upto 15% ethanol blends claiming it will reduce foreign oil consumption. Nobody must have told them that even the E5 or E10 blends are wreaking havoc on fuel economy.
junehhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 06:53 AM   #23  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Barrington, Il.
Age: 67
Posts: 2,324
Default

I always thought it would be cool to have a pop-corn maker over the trunk to power my car! Just imagine what the custom car guys would do with it, laser lights,etc.
No waste either (except for unpopped kernels).
Emil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 11:38 AM   #24  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
daleb's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 7,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by junehhan View Post
Personally, I think it is a good thing when people buy bigass SUV's. Most people think that if Americans all trade in their bigass SUV's for smaller more efficient vehicles, that we as a nation will reduce our dependence on foreign sources of energy. However, that is a very flawed idea when you look at the bigger picture. Some studies done by Economists have now found that switching to more efficient vehicles will not necessarily result in lower oil consumption.

The reason is that a big factor in how much someone chooses to drive is determined by the cost of driving. What they are finding is that because a more fuel efficient vehicle lowers the cost of driving, they end up driving around a lot more. I believe a USAToday survey found that hybrid owners on average drive 20% more than non-hybrid owners. So if someone switches to a more efficient vehicle and starts driving more, the reduction in fuel consumption may not even be there.

Here is why I don't mind people buying bigass SUV's. If people do end up driving more because a more efficient vehicle lowers the cost of driving, they are going to cause more traffic congestion on our highways and roads. This further increases fuel consumption, especially on non-hybrid vehicles as you will spend more time idling. This is why I think Ford should offer an optional 6.8 litre V10 in every SUV they sell. I'm kinda joking here, but not as much as you might think. I hate traffic, and usually adjust my schedule around to avoid driving during peak hours.
Interesting theory, gas consumption vs traffic congestion. And you are right, more fuel efficiency means driving will be cheaper, and there will be more of it to deal with. In addition, major areas (LA, Bay Area, NYC, etc.) traffic has always been a problem. So there could be gridlocks in those areas, consisting of small, fuel efficient commuters.

But this is where mass transit comes into the picture. Another thorn in our infrastructure we have yet to deal with effectively, but one that 'could' relieve us so much dependency on the automobile.

Last edited by daleb; 12-28-2009 at 11:43 AM..
daleb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 12:43 PM   #25  
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Default

these are supposed to be the 2011 chassis for ford in WRC. excited!!!
NattyLight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 12:59 PM   #26  
High Definition is the definition of life.
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 7,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleb View Post
Interesting theory, gas consumption vs traffic congestion. And you are right, more fuel efficiency means driving will be cheaper, and there will be more of it to deal with. In addition, major areas (LA, Bay Area, NYC, etc.) traffic has always been a problem. So there could be gridlocks in those areas, consisting of small, fuel efficient commuters.

But this is where mass transit comes into the picture. Another thorn in our infrastructure we have yet to deal with effectively, but one that 'could' relieve us so much dependency on the automobile.
My belief is that mass transit will never be successful across the US. Any successes it will have will be localized. We are simply too spread out for it to be cost effective. I almost think of it like trying to bring mass transit to the Australia as we have mega cities, but a whole lot of nothing in between the mega cities. New York City is a very good example how mass transit at its best. On the other hand, mass transit is considered by most to be a disaster in LA as it just doesn't work there. Some cities like Seattle, Boston, etc... see some moderate success with mass transit.

With the European countries, the population is highly centralized and there is sufficient population density to make mass transit highly successful. Of course these European countries have rural areas between the urban centers, but it is nothing like what we have here in the US where we have mega cities on the east and west coast, smaller cities, and then huge areas of nothing.

The other thing is that we place a high value on convenience. Sure you can take the Amtrak to go to vacation, but most people who have tried to take Amtrak across a large portion of the US will tell you it sucks ass as an 8 hour drive by bigass SUV could potentially take days on Amtrak. It is again the fact that we are a HUGE nation. Sure this could be improved, but again it won't matter if people have no desire to purchase this method of transportation. After all, Amtrak is in enough financial trouble as it is and they would have gone under if it were not for government help.

Many radicals seem to think that people should be forced back into cities, except that people who have the means have a right to get away from the crime and piss f'ing poor school systems that plague cities. Not to mention the sky high taxes. I can't think of many other developed countries where so much money is spent, and yet education is so frickin poor. Many claim that we don't fund it enough, except that private schools and charter schools are doing so much better at lower costs which shows that perhaps there are other problems than just funding(unions *cough* unions *cough* unfit parents *cough* unfit parents). Our Cincinnati Enquirer released an article several years ago that showed how much we are funding our students here with public tax dollars per student, and how our private schools have lower tuition, yet offer so much better performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil View Post
I always thought it would be cool to have a pop-corn maker over the trunk to power my car! Just imagine what the custom car guys would do with it, laser lights,etc.
No waste either (except for unpopped kernels).
If you were burning popcorn kernals to power your car, I imagine they would next start complaining about the amount of particulate emissions from your vehicle as it leaves behind the distinct odor of burnt popcorn. I know what it smells like as I just got a new microwave and didn't realize that it pops my microwave popcorn in 1/3 the time of the old one.
junehhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 02:32 PM   #27  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Barrington, Il.
Age: 67
Posts: 2,324
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by junehhan View Post
If you were burning popcorn kernals to power your car, I imagine they would next start complaining about the amount of particulate emissions from your vehicle as it leaves behind the distinct odor of burnt popcorn. I know what it smells like as I just got a new microwave and didn't realize that it pops my microwave popcorn in 1/3 the time of the old one.
Of course mine would have a particulate collector on it .
Emil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 05:08 PM   #28  
High Definition is the definition of life.
Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 7,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil View Post
Of course mine would have a particulate collector on it .
I bet if you can get the ECM calibrated just right, your car will smell delicious. Just add some artificial movie theatre butter into your tank before going to the drag races. Personally, you are probably better off going with a after-treatment setup like the urea injection systems on the new Ford Powerstroke diesel, or the Mercedez Blu-tec diesel. Of course it will have to be something different since we are dealing with totally different particulates and pollutants here, but i'm sure you'll figure it out.
junehhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 06:35 PM   #29  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 
daleb's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 7,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by junehhan View Post
My belief is that mass transit will never be successful across the US. Any successes it will have will be localized. We are simply too spread out for it to be cost effective. I almost think of it like trying to bring mass transit to the Australia as we have mega cities, but a whole lot of nothing in between the mega cities. New York City is a very good example how mass transit at its best. On the other hand, mass transit is considered by most to be a disaster in LA as it just doesn't work there. Some cities like Seattle, Boston, etc... see some moderate success with mass transit.

With the European countries, the population is highly centralized and there is sufficient population density to make mass transit highly successful. Of course these European countries have rural areas between the urban centers, but it is nothing like what we have here in the US where we have mega cities on the east and west coast, smaller cities, and then huge areas of nothing.

The other thing is that we place a high value on convenience. Sure you can take the Amtrak to go to vacation, but most people who have tried to take Amtrak across a large portion of the US will tell you it sucks ass as an 8 hour drive by bigass SUV could potentially take days on Amtrak. It is again the fact that we are a HUGE nation. Sure this could be improved, but again it won't matter if people have no desire to purchase this method of transportation. After all, Amtrak is in enough financial trouble as it is and they would have gone under if it were not for government help.

Many radicals seem to think that people should be forced back into cities, except that people who have the means have a right to get away from the crime and piss f'ing poor school systems that plague cities. Not to mention the sky high taxes. I can't think of many other developed countries where so much money is spent, and yet education is so frickin poor. Many claim that we don't fund it enough, except that private schools and charter schools are doing so much better at lower costs which shows that perhaps there are other problems than just funding(unions *cough* unions *cough* unfit parents *cough* unfit parents). Our Cincinnati Enquirer released an article several years ago that showed how much we are funding our students here with public tax dollars per student, and how our private schools have lower tuition, yet offer so much better performance.
I was thinking only of congested metropolitan areas, where trains are common in the East, and some parts of the Mid-West, but in the West, attempts at mass transit have never been successful.
One exception might be BART in the Bay Area, Seattle and Portland too...but Bart ended up costing 3X original expectations, and after all that, was still rejected by San Mateo county leaving 10s of thousands of other potential riders staying in their cars, because the most affluent county in the Bay Area did not want another penny tax.

Many are considering the LA Metro a failure, that is true. The Metro is a perfect example of how historically, adding a rigid track line after the fact, has never met with much success.
It would seem the most successful ones have grown with the cities they serve, like NY, Boston, DC, etc.
Of course, climate is a factor too, the very thing that made mass transit highly desirable in the East is the same thing that kept westerners uninterested. So we have come full circle, with most of us still slaves to our automobiles even when we would rather not drive.

We take Amtrak on trips sometimes, instead of drivng for 3 or 4 hours. If no one is picking us up, we might still rent a small car.
Besides saving some wear and tear on our car, we are more rested and able to enjoy other activities more fully at our destination.
The train is relatively cheap, and if you are not in a hurry, a nice way to travel. It is unfortunate Amtrak is so bankrupt. What I would fear most is degradation in safety. But at least speed will not be a major factor in safety. We are far from every seeing bullet trains, no matter how much they talk up the possibilities.

Last edited by daleb; 12-29-2009 at 11:31 AM..
daleb is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource >
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:23 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2018, MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands