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Old 09-16-2009, 05:32 PM   #46  
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

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I would buy a Honda or Toyota without blinking an eye. The big boys got a ways to go to win me over, but I always keep an option open.
They are a good option if you want to accept lower reliability than a Fusion.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:31 PM   #47  
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They are a good option if you want to accept lower reliability than a Fusion.
Time will tell! I hope you are right, then we will know American cars are turning a corner, well, at least one based on a Japanese Mazda 6 platform. That goes back to the original question, I guess Mazda is up to Toyota/Honda standards, maybe even better in the particular case.

Last edited by daleb; 09-16-2009 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:53 PM   #48  
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For the most part, nearly all cars on the road today are VERY reliable. We know that some are more reliable than others, but the difference is staggeringly small due to advances in quality control for nearly every manufacturer. If a particular brand vehicle averages 144 problems per 1000 vehicles while another one averages 139 problems per 1000, to me it is not a big deal which one is more reliable or less reliable because it is so close.

What I do place a high value on however, is the driving dynamics of a car. Some people want a car that is virtually Buick like. Others want some excitement or have other specialized needs. I tend to buy American and am proud at how far especially Ford has gone. If I had the money, I would love that new Taurus SHO that just came out. Most of the reviews i've read shows that it goes 0-60 in 5.4 - 5.0 seconds.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:57 PM   #49  
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I agree, as much as I pulled Emil's chain, MOST cars are reliable for the last decade or so. There are finite differences, but for most of us the risk of getting a lemon is fading from the scene.
I've been reading about the SHO too..I was interested in the old one at one time..glad I resisted, then.
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:48 AM   #50  
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Time will tell! I hope you are right, then we will know American cars are turning a corner, well, at least one based on a Japanese Mazda 6 platform.
Why do you think they invested so heavily in Mazda!

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Originally Posted by junehhan
For the most part, nearly all cars on the road today are VERY reliable. We know that some are more reliable than others, but the difference is staggeringly small due to advances in quality control for nearly every manufacturer.
Very true, realistically the differences are insignificant.
BTW, I'm jealous that you're getting a Fusion Hybrid! I'll be waiting for your journal .

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I agree, as much as I pulled Emil's chain, MOST cars are reliable for the last decade or so.
Nothing like a good lively debate to get you going!
(especially when you know you're right )

Last edited by Emil; 09-17-2009 at 05:53 AM..
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:28 AM   #51  
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If I had the money, I would love that new Taurus SHO that just came out. Most of the reviews i've read shows that it goes 0-60 in 5.4 - 5.0 seconds.
I wonder how it handles. I think taking a turn fast is more fun than straight line acceleration - and driving manual is much more fun than auto. We have a Lexus es300 sedan with 200hp and a civic with 106 hp and the civic is much more fun to drive, it handles like a gokart.

But still, 0-60 in 5.4 seconds? From a V6? Perhaps the perfect mix of sportiness and family capable? Can't wait to see them on the road!
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:08 AM   #52  
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I wonder how it handles. I think taking a turn fast is more fun than straight line acceleration - and driving manual is much more fun than auto. We have a Lexus es300 sedan with 200hp and a civic with 106 hp and the civic is much more fun to drive, it handles like a gokart.

But still, 0-60 in 5.4 seconds? From a V6? Perhaps the perfect mix of sportiness and family capable? Can't wait to see them on the road!
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:26 AM   #53  
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I agree, as much as I pulled Emil's chain, MOST cars are reliable for the last decade or so. There are finite differences, but for most of us the risk of getting a lemon is fading from the scene.
I've been reading about the SHO too..I was interested in the old one at one time..glad I resisted, then.
There seem to be HUGE differences in reliability between the extreme ends of the reliability spectrum(Buick, Mercury, Lexus versus Land Rover, Mini), but the middle and upper ends are definately converging towards a similar reliabilty figure no matter what CR or some other opinionated publication claims. I've had 2 Taurus SHO's before and you have no idea how badly I want the new one. I just can't afford a $42k car even if I could buy one on x-plan.

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Why do you think they invested so heavily in Mazda!


Very true, realistically the differences are insignificant.
BTW, I'm jealous that you're getting a Fusion Hybrid! I'll be waiting for your journal .


Nothing like a good lively debate to get you going!
(especially when you know you're right )
I honestly can't wait for my Fusion Hybrid to get in. The problem though is that it has been less than a week and the dealer said it would take 10-12 weeks to get one in. The wait is gonna be really tough. I hope people understand that $4+ a gallon for petrol we saw last summer is only a preview of what is to come from a future that is going to continue seeing demand explode, while supply will dwindle. This is why I ultimately decided on the Fusion Hybrid versus my other option which was the Fusion Sport AWD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjt1985 View Post
I wonder how it handles. I think taking a turn fast is more fun than straight line acceleration - and driving manual is much more fun than auto. We have a Lexus es300 sedan with 200hp and a civic with 106 hp and the civic is much more fun to drive, it handles like a gokart.

But still, 0-60 in 5.4 seconds? From a V6? Perhaps the perfect mix of sportiness and family capable? Can't wait to see them on the road!
Check out the link that Emil posted! Turns out that the new Taurus SHO is damn impressive, especially for a 4300lb car. 0-60 in 5.2 seconds with a torque peak of 350lb-ft of torque at just 1500 rpms! No wonder this thing hauls ass.

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Old 09-17-2009, 12:13 PM   #54  
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There seem to be HUGE differences in reliability between the extreme ends of the reliability spectrum(Buick, Mercury, Lexus versus Land Rover, Mini), but the middle and upper ends are definately converging towards a similar reliabilty figure no matter what CR or some other opinionated publication claims. I've had 2 Taurus SHO's before and you have no idea how badly I want the new one. I just can't afford a $42k car even if I could buy one on x-plan.



I honestly can't wait for my Fusion Hybrid to get in. The problem though is that it has been less than a week and the dealer said it would take 10-12 weeks to get one in. The wait is gonna be really tough. I hope people understand that $4+ a gallon for petrol we saw last summer is only a preview of what is to come from a future that is going to continue seeing demand explode, while supply will dwindle. This is why I ultimately decided on the Fusion Hybrid versus my other option which was the Fusion Sport AWD.



Check out the link that Emil posted! Turns out that the new Taurus SHO is damn impressive, especially for a 4300lb car. 0-60 in 5.2 seconds with a torque peak of 350lb-ft of torque at just 1500 rpms! No wonder this thing hauls ass.
It is impressive! And take note, Emil! It is not based on a Japanese car like the Fusion. Let's hope reliability follows closer to the Fusion.
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:15 PM   #55  
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Why do you think they invested so heavily in Mazda!
Hmmm...I don't suppose quality had anything to do with it?

Last edited by daleb; 09-17-2009 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:43 PM   #56  
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It is impressive! And take note, Emil! It is not based on a Japanese car like the Fusion. Let's hope reliability follows closer to the Fusion.
I think it's based on a Volvo.
But the money stays here just like the Mazda/Fusion .

I think the big buzz work is leverage.
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:08 PM   #57  
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I think it's based on a Volvo.
But the money stays here just like the Mazda/Fusion .

I think the big buzz work is leverage.
My understanding was that the chassis for the Ford 500/Taurus was based on the Volvo S80 even including the same advanced AWD system. I kinda wish Ford would have designed the new SHO a bit more aggressively, but you can't complain when this is the fastest and best handling Taurus SHO ever built. When you look at the specs behind it, it almost seems to mirror the specs that were laid out by SHO enthusiasts at a focus group that was held in California a long time ago.

I really want one but cannot afford a car that would still cost in the high $30's after x-plan. However, this car looks like it is an incredible bargain considering all of the features you get in it for the price point. There is a very neat video you guys should check out at

http://www.svt.ford.com and click on the Taurus SHO link there.

They do a comparison against cars that cost much more and it is pretty impressive.
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:05 PM   #58  
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I think it's based on a Volvo.
But the money stays here just like the Mazda/Fusion .

I think the big buzz work is leverage.
True, the Fusion is based on the Mazda 6. How does all the money stay here if Mazda provides the platform? The platform is still from Japan AFAIK.
Putting a Ford badge on it changes nothing. Again, I am not knocking the car. On the contrary, it certainly shows a lot of promise.
It was smart of Ford to recognize a good deal for the consumer.
In any case, we are only talking about one car model here. But certainly a step in right direction.

New News:
I just read about the VW Bluesport 2 seater sports car. 0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds with a diesel engine, and up
to 50 mpg! It seems the Europeans are jumping on diesels big time, and getting some interesting results.

Last edited by daleb; 09-17-2009 at 04:15 PM..
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:50 PM   #59  
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True, the Fusion is based on the Mazda 6. How does all the money stay here if Mazda provides the platform? The platform is still from Japan AFAIK.
Putting a Ford badge on it changes nothing. Again, I am not knocking the car. On the contrary, it certainly shows a lot of promise.
It was smart of Ford to recognize a good deal for the consumer.
In any case, we are only talking about one car model here. But certainly a step in right direction.

New News:
I just read about the VW Bluesport 2 seater sports car. 0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds with a diesel engine, and up
to 50 mpg! It seems the Europeans are jumping on diesels big time, and getting some interesting results.
I'm sure the design was done when Ford owned them. Back then Mazda was even linked on the Ford website like Volvo still is.

Diesels make be nervous just because the cost of the fuel is already way above that of gas because of demand and additional refining.
I sure loved the Cummins we had though! I would not have a problem at all driving a diesel again.
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:57 PM   #60  
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I'm sure the design was done when Ford owned them. Back then Mazda was even linked on the Ford website like Volvo still is.

Diesels make be nervous just because the cost of the fuel is already way above that of gas because of demand and additional refining.
I sure loved the Cummins we had though! I would not have a problem at all driving a diesel again.
The point is, even if they owned them, Japanese workers were putting them together, and not for free I'm sure....moot point in any case but when I hear all-American I think of Corvettes, Mustangs, Cadillac, etc.
Progress is underway that's the important thing.

I read up on recent diesel development. It is really quite amazing what they are doing. Worth a read....it could happen here too. And be a smarter alternative, at least in the near future until something more practical can be done with alternative energy.
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