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Blu-Ray player: will it sale?

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Old 05-24-2006, 02:33 PM   #46  
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PFC5, I love you, man. You are one of very few people that are able to provide a decent discussion. And how are you beating me in post count again?

Here's how this works, for all the people just browsing the HD player section... You have some people that while they have a preference, are willing to listen to others' two cents and provide a good debate. Focus only on those peoples' comments. Others are wildly obsessed fanboys that will go down with their ship, even if there is a raft floating in the water. They will ignore evidence and usually go by speculation. They also usually take shots at people as their own personal ego booster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dontknowjack
I have a question. People keep saying that these HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are "first generation" and will have problems. Is that true of all technological things out there? Will every machines that first come out will always have problems? I would've thought the companies that create and release these things would have throughly researched it enough to release it without problem. They will not let it out if it was going to have problems. Especially living in the 21st century I thought that would be true. Why is it assumed these machines will have problems when it first comes out? I just don't understand it.
I wouldn't say all technological things, but easily most. Why? I would say the vast majority of the time, it's simply business. Companies that want to be first to the market, usually sacrifice quality to do so. The other time, just unforseen errors due to the large scale. For example, you could product test all you want in a lab, but that lab is not going to be able to recreate the possiblities of thousands or millions of consumers.
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Old 05-24-2006, 02:48 PM   #47  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolv
Oh yeah, Where?
Wrong again - the Sony does DD+ (per the site) and also claims to do DTS-HD but does not handle TruHD according to the specs.

Right there. Plain English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolv
Don't you ever admit that you were wrong?
Yes, certainly, but I like to wait until I actually am before I do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolv
Where do you think the 6,000 number and the 10,000 number came from?
I first saw them on IGN and Tom's Hardware. You know- reputable, visible information sites that substantiate things before reporting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolv
The 25,000 was just more recent.
This wasn't really a point of contention between us- but, unless I missed something, the 25,000 number is still unsubstantiated rumor that you saw on a forum, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolv
I didn't ask for a fight - all I did was post a correction to a couple of pretty simple errors - and we've now had how many posts back and forth to show that I was correct
I don't look at this as a fight at all- we're on a discussion forum- this is a discussion- it's what we're supposed to be doing.

The way I see it- we've got some people around here that are willing to look at this topic from a wider point of view and see the various strengths and weaknesses of both brands, and others who are only willing to acknowledge the strengths of one and the weaknesses of another. Nobody who fits the latter description should ever try to pretend that they are playing the role of "educator" to someone who fits the former description. At the end of the day, they have nothing to teach them that a cheerleading coach couldn't.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:48 PM   #48  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry
What's funny is that you and LG got off onto this tangent because you were talking about the features of the players, and said that 1080p being absent from the HD-DVD side has little impact, because most people don't have a display that can take full advantage of it, and then went on to talk about the new Audio formats as if there are any more home theater enthusiasts out there that have the speakers and amps to take full advantage of them regardless of whether or not their given player can perform the decoding.
Don't be such a Blue Ray fanboy, you don't need a new receiver or new speakers to enjoy the new audio codecs with HD-DVD, it decodes it and sends the correct sound to your receiver. The BD player will not decode anything and until you buy a new receiver that can decode it for you, that by the way doesn't exist yet, you can't listen to anything but old DTS and DD with the BR player. This is not rocket science here, anyone with any old audio receiver that has 5.1 input and any speaker that currently works with that same old receiver will be able to output the benefits of the new audio sound. But that has been explained to you many times before, you just keep trying to distort the truth. I am starting to wonder if you are just on here trolling for Blue Ray. Stop being such a narrow minded Blue Ray fanboy and admit that HD-DVD has many more advantages than just price. Also quit trying to admit neutrality when you continually make up lies to try and discredit HD-DVD. Just admit to being a Blue ray fanboy and then we can go on with debate from a perspective of honesty.

Last edited by Cornbread; 05-24-2006 at 04:08 PM..
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:21 PM   #49  
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When will BR be sold in stores? Has a definitive launch date been set?
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:24 PM   #50  
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june 20 was last I heard. they didn't specify the year though.....
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:26 PM   #51  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread
Don't be such a Blue Ray fanboy, you don't need a new receiver or new speakers to enjoy the new audio codecs with HD-DVD, it decodes it and sends the correct sound to your receiver. The BD player will not decode anything and until you buy a new receiver that can decode it for you, that by the way doesn't exist yet, you can't listen to anything but old DTS and DD with the BR player. This is not rocket science here, anyone with any old audio receiver that has 5.1 input and any speaker that currently works with that same old receiver will be able to output the benefits of the new audio sound. But that has been explained to you many times before, you just keep trying to distort the truth. I am starting to wonder if you are just on here trolling for Blue Ray. Stop being such a narrow minded Blue Ray fanboy and admit that HD-DVD has many more advantages than just price. Also quit trying to admit neutrality when you continually make up lies to try and discredit HD-DVD. Just admit to being a Blue ray fanboy and then we can go on with debate from a perspective of honesty.
Unbelievable. You have no room what so ever to call someone a "fanboy."
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:32 PM   #52  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygnus
When will BR be sold in stores? Has a definitive launch date been set?
Players and titles are scheduled to be released this time next month.
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:48 PM   #53  
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Here is the thing I don't get. Actually let me first clarify, I am leaning towards the HD-DVD camp. For reasons mostly unrelated to the main points of this discussion.

Price and availability. I can buy a HD-DVD today. I am looking forward to going to BB this weekend and getting one, I will buy a couple of movies then too. I can't even get a BD player yet, and even if I could, it costs at least a $100 more in the PS3 (the least expensive) form . That equals about three HD movies. Plus, I don't want my HD television manipulated all evening by my son wanting to play video games. So I would end up moving it back and forth from his room to the living room. Huge PITA. Also, from everything I have read, the BD platform will be more expensive. Players and movies. To me it's just not worth the wait to pay more for something most of us still have not seen. In my eyes, Sony is the loser until the prices for either format even up.
As an aside, I'm not anti Sony. I have two Sony DVD players less than a year old. I have a 50 inch HD Wega and my DVD player installed in the avalanche is Sony Dreamsystem. So please do not think I have an axe to grind.

I just dont want to wait any longer.
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Old 05-24-2006, 05:25 PM   #54  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cousin eddie
Here is the thing I don't get. Actually let me first clarify, I am leaning towards the HD-DVD camp. For reasons mostly unrelated to the main points of this discussion.

Price and availability. I can buy a HD-DVD today. I am looking forward to going to BB this weekend and getting one, I will buy a couple of movies then too. I can't even get a BD player yet, and even if I could, it costs at least a $100 more in the PS3 (the least expensive) form . That equals about three HD movies. Plus, I don't want my HD television manipulated all evening by my son wanting to play video games. So I would end up moving it back and forth from his room to the living room. Huge PITA. Also, from everything I have read, the BD platform will be more expensive. Players and movies. To me it's just not worth the wait to pay more for something most of us still have not seen. In my eyes, Sony is the loser until the prices for either format even up.
As an aside, I'm not anti Sony. I have two Sony DVD players less than a year old. I have a 50 inch HD Wega and my DVD player installed in the avalanche is Sony Dreamsystem. So please do not think I have an axe to grind.

I just dont want to wait any longer.
Your opinion and no rational person would debate that.

But in regards to all this HD-DVD is here now or not being able to wait for BR...it's scheduled to release next month. We aren't talking next year or something. So, while price is a valid concern (though the cheapest HD-DVD player is $500, the same price as the cheapest PS3, for clarification), no one should be using the time excuse, considering you're about to drop $500+ on new hardware.

But again, price is a big factor and Toshi's main weapon (and personally, it's only one). I don't care if anyone buys a HD-DVD player or a BR player. I don't care what anyone spends $500 bucks on...it's not my money.

My problem is fanboys of either side, trying to turn debates into personal attacks, ignoring evidence, and trying to twist info in their favor.

The examples in this thread... Toshiba has only shipped 6,000 units in the states with 4,000 soon, as of the beginning of this month. That's according to several creditable publications and sites. I didn't make that up to try and boost Sony's stock. So, when people try to deny that evidence, when I have provided sources and they have nothing but speculation...their fanboy behavior has taken over.

Sony is currently producing 25,000 BR discs a day using three production lines. An HD-DVD plant, is able to produce 20,000 in one day, using only one line. Advantage, Toshiba. That is something I could back up with sources. You don't see me trying to deny that claim, because I'm not a fanboy. It's news that I state, without bias.

Another example... Say that no HD-DVD players will output 1080p, but Sony's players will. An HD-DVD fanboy freaks out and says how 1080p isn't important, yet HD audio codecs are. To me (being rational), that's one negative and positive for each camp. But you shouldn't down play the 1080p, simply because your team can't do it and in the same line, brag about something your team can do that the other can't.

Bottomline... I hope you enjoy your HD-DVD player. And please, when you pick it up, share your thoughts. But don't get sucked into becoming a fanboy. Realize that neither product is perfect and that this is just a format war...not trying to bring all the races of the world together to sing, "We are family."

Last edited by LordGamer; 05-24-2006 at 05:40 PM..
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:03 PM   #55  
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To me all this debate is simply fascinating. Sony is fighting a battle they have been expecting to win, and many feel they can't afford to lose. People are really into it. I myself have the Tosh player. Can't say I'm not happy with it. In fact, I hear the upscale ability alone is worth the selling price. I haven't had a high-end player before, so I can't make any comparisons. Anyway, I see that the debate will only escalate when BR hits the stores, and endless comparisons between the players will be done.

As far as attitudes, I see a little smugness in the HD DVD camp, as many have their players, and (apparently) are for the most part happy to have them and watch dvds in HD. The Bluray side appears rather defensive to me, and that also stems from them being tired of waiting while their opposition is feasting on HD movies. Yeah, I'm a little biased in favor of HD DVD, but I respect BR people, and their opinions. In fact I agree with lot of what they have to say (such as Bluray is the better format for the future).
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Old 05-24-2006, 08:32 PM   #56  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread
Don't be such a Blue Ray fanboy, you don't need a new receiver or new speakers to enjoy the new audio codecs with HD-DVD, it decodes it and sends the correct sound to your receiver. The BD player will not decode anything and until you buy a new receiver that can decode it for you, that by the way doesn't exist yet, you can't listen to anything but old DTS and DD with the BR player. This is not rocket science here, anyone with any old audio receiver that has 5.1 input and any speaker that currently works with that same old receiver will be able to output the benefits of the new audio sound. But that has been explained to you many times before, you just keep trying to distort the truth..
Actually, (and I thought this was pretty clear, but I suppose I can dumb it down a little) my point was that most people's audio setup is not good enough for them to discern the difference between DD or DTS and the new formats. First and foremost- many people still listen to their sound piped directly through their TV, regardless of what we think of it. Stepping up a notch from that- I'm sorry, but the little amp and satellite speakers that came bundled with the average Joe's DVD player that he bought at Best Buy in 2002 just isn't going to offer the fidelity required to take advantage of the new codecs in any way- they don't even let you really hear the subtelties of what DD and DTS have to offer. Even the next step up, say, someone who actually purchased a nice, mid-range system for around $1,000 or so, is still going to be very hard pressed to tell the difference. I've just accounted for 97% of the living rooms in this country. People like us make up the other 3%. So can we stop pretending that onboard decoding of these audio codecs is really going to be crucial in 2006? I've said many times that 1080p output is not important in 2006 either, I was only using it as a point of comparison to show how unimportant native support for the new audio codecs is right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread
I am starting to wonder if you are just on here trolling for Blue Ray. Stop being such a narrow minded Blue Ray fanboy and admit that HD-DVD has many more advantages than just price. Also quit trying to admit neutrality when you continually make up lies to try and discredit HD-DVD.
First of all, I'm not terrribly concerned about what you're wondering. I've been here for over a year, and I've had almost nothing bad to say about HD-DVD, I've actually defended the brand from several different angles in the past, but evidently you weren't here to see much of it. It's hilarious to me that you're accusing me of lying about and trying to discredit HD-DVD, when all I've actually been doing is trying to straighten out the misinformation that many HD-A1 owners are trying to pass off as fact.

Remember this one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread
You are already hearing about some Blue Ray supporters switching sides by wavering in their Blue Ray only support: Samsung, HP, Disney.
Two of those three examples are very misleading, which I pointed out already. But why would you even say it? Because maybe we'll let it slide?

How about this one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread
There is no guarantee at this point that PowerDVD or WinDVD will be licensed to make an HD-DVD player.
Yeah, except the opposite of that. Both have already developed, demoed, and demonstrated players with BR/HD-DVD capability. So why would you say otherwise? Because maybe we'll let it slide.

But this one's my favorite......no, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread
Yes Strawberry I will leave most of your comments without rebute because they all make sense, you have sound points. Most of what I have been saying are rumors and my personal opinion..
Now see- you used to be so cool, like, three days ago. What happened? I thought you had such a bright future, saying wise things like that...
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Old 05-24-2006, 08:37 PM   #57  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames
Anyway, I see that the debate will only escalate when BR hits the stores, and endless comparisons between the players will be done.
I may have to take a short leave of absence for a month or two after the BR launch. I don't think I'll be able to wade through the garbage around here- it's already nigh impossible.
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:38 PM   #58  
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I think BR sales will be surprisingly brisk. You can bet most everybody with a 1080p tv will either get one or will try to get one. People's attitudes about buying can take a dramatic shift once the idea gets implanted that they can have it now. I've heard some crazy stories about people desperate, like 5 years old kids, wanting the Tosh players. If the BR reviews are good there will be lots of BR people buying, then finding there keyboard works again and backing you poor guys up with a pent-up vengeance. For now though, after reading this thread, I can see why you'd wanna take a breather. Anyway good luck!

Last edited by bruceames; 05-24-2006 at 09:43 PM..
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:54 PM   #59  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames
If the BR reviews are good there will be lots of BR people buying, then finding there keyboard works again and backing you poor guys up with a pent-up vengeance.
That's kind of what I'm afraid of...

The pendulum can swing a little too far the other way, you know?
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:51 PM   #60  
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Good point. Hadn't thought of that. I've only been in these forums since I got my player, so I haven't read what was posted before the Tosh went on sale. I've just heard (from HD DVD voices of course) that some BR loyalists can get fairly fanatical. Fortunately I'm not suffering symtoms of format war burn-out yet, so there will be an interesting chapter ahead.
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